Examiner: Gardaí investigate forum comments about Roma

P_1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1109/ireland/probe-into-web-comments-about-roma-249083.html

Gardaí are investigating an Irish online forum over comments aimed at the Roma community.

Dublin TD Maureen O’Sullivan has asked Justice Minister Alan Shatter if the site would be liable under the Incitement to Hatred Act if racist comments were found to be made.

Right so, initial interesting thread locked because it was started by a re-reg. Presumably the Examiner on a slow news day because I was under the impression that making racist/xenophobic comments online was a no-no, however it seems that a horse racing forum and it's users might be getting itself into hot water over comments made on it about certain Roma people.

It seems the forum in question is 'members only' but even still it could be held liable for incitement to hatred over the comments.

Thoughts, comments, questions? The floor is open folks.

dmc17

I'm not a fan of AS Roma myself. I prefer Juventus

full_irish

The Roma... they're a great bunch of lads!

wazky

dmc17 wrote: »

I'm not a fan of AS Roma myself. I prefer Juventus

Grr juventus! Those black.. And white.. Jersey wearing so and so's

road_high

PC non-sense

Local_Chap

dmc17 wrote: »

I'm not a fan of AS Roma myself

There having a good season so far, top of the table at the moment!

keith16

dmc17 wrote: »

I'm not a fan of AS Roma myself. I prefer Juventus

HATER!!

P_1

Local_Chap wrote: »

There having a good season so far, top of the table at the moment!

Unbeaten too, just took Juventus' record for the best ever start

keith16

Local_Chap wrote: »

There having a good season so far, top of the table at the moment!

Top of the racial profiling table!

Boombastic

Local_Chap wrote: »

There having a good season so far, top of the table at the moment!

I think that might be racist (footballist?) against those at the bottom of the table.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Probably was only a matter of time.
A small number of people seem to think the internet is a place they can post bile and hatred with impunity, so sooner or later action will have to be taken.

TheBoffin

A small number of people seem to think the internet is a place they can post bile and hatred with impunity, so sooner or later action will have to be taken.

Agreed, It amazes me that some will post on here what they would never say in public.

Boombastic

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Probably was only a matter of time.
A small number of people seem to think the internet is a place they can post bile and hatred with impunity, so sooner or later action will have to be taken.

yes a small number of people of people think they can commit crime at will, action should be taken sooner rather than late

wazky

Boombastic wrote: »

yes a small number of people of people think they can commit crime at will, action should be taken sooner rather than late

Who decides what is offensive and what is not?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Boombastic wrote: »

yes a small number of people of people think they can commit crime at will, action should be taken sooner rather than late

Anyone who breaks the law should be subject to the legal consequences.

Tombi!

It really depends on what was said. I mean even here we can say "I don't like the Romas" but you can't start blindly insulting them or saying they should be shot, etc.

Could be a slippery slope or could be (I think this part) a good point. If a website is letting people go around posting stuff that's gonna lead to trouble I don't see why the site shouldn't get into trouble.

Boombastic

wazky wrote: »

Who decides what is offensive and what is not?

pavee point

Wright

If only there was a better way to use police time...hmm...

Banjo String

Fcukin Roma disgusts me.

Borza ftw!!!!!

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Boombastic wrote: »

pavee point

Childish post.
The Incitement to Hatred act applies to more than just Travellers.
And it is the DPP who decides who gets prosecuted under it., and the courts who determine a verdict.

knird evol

wazky wrote: »

Who decides what is offensive and what is not?

Enda Kenny.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Wright wrote: »

If only there was a better way to use police time...hmm...

What could be better a way than investigating crime?

Boombastic

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Childish post.
The Incitement to Hatred act applies to more than just Travellers.
And it is the DPP who decides who gets prosecuted under it., and the courts who determine a verdict.

who mentioned travellers? pavee point also represent the roma community.

Tombi!

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Childish post.
The Incitement to Hatred act applies to more than just Travellers.
And it is the DPP who decides who gets prosecuted under it., and the courts who determine a verdict.

IIRC, it was the thing with Travellers that prompted it.
I think it's anything bad under: orientation/religion/race/Traveller/nationality/etc

Tombi!

Boombastic wrote: »

who mentioned travellers? pavee point also represent the roma community.

And they'd still be covered by it.
What's your point? I really don't get what you mean.

Wright

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

What could be better a way than investigating crime?

Investigating actual crime.

It's understandable if the poster made a threat, but if he was just slagging them off, yeah; better to put police on pawn shops to catch thieving junkies, or on known drug corners, or investigating assaults.

Was 'junkies' too offensive? Hope the Gards don't put someone on to me now.

Boombastic

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

And they'd still be covered by it.
What's your point? I really don't get what you mean.

the other poster seem to think pavee point deal exclusively with travellers, just clarifying they have a broader remit and are relevant to the Roma also

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Wright wrote: »

Investigating actual crime.

It's understandable if the poster made a threat, but if he was just slagging them off, yeah; better to put police on pawn shops to catch thieving junkies, or on known drug corners, or investigating assaults.

Was 'junkies' too offensive? Hope the Gards don't put someone on to me now.

Incitement to Hatred, is an actual crime.

Wright

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Incitement to Hatred, is an actual crime.

Many things are criminal, but to varying degrees. Most are more severe than this, and arguing otherwise is just hair splitting semantics. I'm fairly sure the Gards have a large pile of 'more severe' to get through, let's have them do that first and then when they're finished that, they can move on to this. Unless someone makes an actual threat, then it's a different situation.

Tombi!

Wright wrote: »

Many things are criminal, but to varying degrees. Most are more severe than this, and arguing otherwise is just hair splitting semantics. I'm fairly sure the Gards have a large pile of 'more severe' to get through, let's have them do that first and then when they're finished that, they can move on to this. Unless someone makes an actual threat, then it's a different situation.

The details aren't given.
Sure, if I post "ah f**l the Romas, bunch of scum" and the Gardaí investigate that then I think most people would agree it's a waste of time.
For all we know it could have been a plot to go on a gangbeating of a bunch of street beggars that might be Romas or not.

Wright

Well then that would be absolutely fair enough. Any chance to prevent crime from happening in the first place should be a police priority.

I guess that's the problem with this story, we just don't know.

Frank Lee Midere

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

What could be better a way than investigating crime?

Anything is a crime if declared a crime, of course. So that would justify any totalitarian regime.

Fr_Dougal

The Roma need to hire a good PR company, I have never heard a positive news story about them, it's always negative.

Wright

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Anything is a crime if declared a crime, of course. So that would justify any totalitarian regime.

Sure didn't Obama push legislation through that makes the United States a 'combat zone'.

NuckingFacker

I find they don't use enough garlic in their garlic and tomato pasta sauce, but I've yet to be that annoyed by it to start looking for them to be shot. Poked with a small stick, or subject to a strongly worded e-mail maybe. Those footballers were probably a bit more into their cooking.

valknut

Does anybody have a link to an article that shows where large groups of Roma have integrated and prospered in Europe?

Tombi!

Wright wrote: »

Well then that would be absolutely fair enough. Any chance to prevent crime from happening in the first place should be a police priority.

I guess that's the problem with this story, we just don't know.

So why did you assume it was a waste of time?

Wright

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

So why did you assume it was a waste of time?

Because if it was a case that a threat was made, the article would have mentioned that.

I'm just saying I'm open to being wrong about this, but it doesn't look like anything worthy of police attention happened here.

Tombi!

Wright wrote: »

Because if it was a case that a threat was made, the article would have mentioned that.

I'm just saying I'm open to being wrong about this, but it doesn't look like anything worthy of police attention happened here.

They don't normally say what was said though, do they?

0ph0rce0

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The Roma need to hire a good PR company, I have never heard a positive news story about them, it's always negative.

Because 99.9% of them are "________________________"

I'll get in trouble if i fill in the blank :rolleyes:

humbert

Incitement to hatred seems to mean expressing thoughts we don't think are OK. You don't really have to do any inciting, as it says in the article, just has to be generally racist.

I'm very very uncomfortable with governments monitoring internet discussion, checking to see if it is acceptable.

LionelNashe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

The details aren't given.
Sure, if I post "ah f**l the Romas, bunch of scum" and the Gardaí investigate that then I think most people would agree it's a waste of time.
For all we know it could have been a plot to go on a gangbeating of a bunch of street beggars that might be Romas or not.

Actually, there are some details in the Examiner article:
"Alleged remarks referred to the Roma as "vermin" and advised people to keep an eye on their blonde children. Another post referred to two Roma producing a "blonde pup"."

An "animal sports website", I'm guessing, wouldn't have as much resources for moderation as Boards. It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.

Tombi!

LionelNashe wrote: »

Actually, there are some details in the Examiner article:
"Alleged remarks referred to the Roma as "vermin" and advised people to keep an eye on their blonde children. Another post referred to two Roma producing a "blonde pup"."

An "animal sports website", I'm guessing, wouldn't have as much resources for moderation as Boards. It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.

Yes... well uh... I'm blind.
Thanks for that.

In that case I don't see the problem really. It's gone beyond expressing dislike and most people consider vermin nothing more than something to be killed.

Red Nissan

LionelNashe wrote: »

It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.

This can be construed as inciting people to as well, don't forget. Your post was fine until you qualified it, it's usually these qualifications that start the riots on boards.

0ph0rce0

LionelNashe wrote: »

Actually, there are some details in the Examiner article:
"Alleged remarks referred to the Roma as "vermin" and advised people to keep an eye on their blonde children. Another post referred to two Roma producing a "blonde pup"."

An "animal sports website", I'm guessing, wouldn't have as much resources for moderation as Boards. It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.

Fair enough about the child thing.

But they are pretty much all like pigeons

VERMIN

Pro Hoc Vice

Just so people understand the law http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2

To the best of my knowledge there has been none or only a few prosecutions under the act.

"“hatred” means hatred against a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation;"

0ph0rce0

infosys wrote: »

Just so people understand the law http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2

To the best of my knowledge there has been none or only a few prosecutions under the act.

"“hatred” means hatred against a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation;"

Well i dont hate them for any of the above reasons.

I just hate them because i do.

Cant get in trouble for that can i ?

Pro Hoc Vice

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Well i dont hate them for any of the above reasons.

I just hate them because i do.

Cant get in trouble for that can i ?

Getting into trouble (being before a court) maybe, being found guilty well that would be up to the Judge or Jury based on all the evidence. But a person who admits to hate for a particular group and invites others to the same just because he hates in my opinion could be found guilty.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Well i dont hate them for any of the above reasons.

I just hate them because i do.

Cant get in trouble for that can i ?

Why you hate them is wholly irrelevant, inciting others to hatred against any of the named groups is a serious criminal offence however.

Frank Lee Midere

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Why you hate them is wholly irrelevant, inciting others to hatred against any of the named groups is a serious criminal offence however.

What would incitement mean. Is it just criticism, or actual incitement to violence? The latter I get - the former - well that's policing bad speech.

Frank Lee Midere

infosys wrote: »

Getting into trouble (being before a court) maybe, being found guilty well that would be up to the Judge or Jury based on all the evidence. But a person who admits to hate for a particular group and invites others to the same just because he hates in my opinion could be found guilty.

It's surprising the entire population of Northern Ireland isn't all in jail.