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Where might I be going wrong?

245

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    it really, really isnt.

    if youre consistent in your 500 calories below maintenance then weight will go down.

    there is no way to dispute this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    It's confusing stuff, but I have heard arguments for and against high protein low carb diets before. I guess the only way to really find out is give it a shot so I think I might try it out for a month, say, and see how it goes. Certainly calorie counting isn't working anyway.

    Thanks for the advice! I might start a fitness log or something to track how it goes


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭riveratom


    Strayze wrote: »
    It's confusing stuff, but I have heard arguments for and against high protein low carb diets before. I guess the only way to really find out is give it a shot so I think I might try it out for a month, say, and see how it goes. Certainly calorie counting isn't working anyway.

    Thanks for the advice! I might start a fitness log or something to track how it goes

    Cool no probs! Definitely start a log, great way to stay accountable too!

    The reason there are arguments for and against is partly because people have different metabolisms, body chemistry, etc. The degree to which you can tolerate a traditional high-carb diet depends on your own body chemistry. You probably don't do well on carbs, like myself and so many others.

    This is why sea-monkey's view is short-sighted. If all we had to do was cut 500 calories a day, sure we'd all be nice and slim! It is very difficult to do that in any case, on a consistent basis which will add up to fat loss (e.g. two slices of bread is approx 200 calories!).

    Plus most of us live mainly sedentary lives and a few hours a week in the gym is not going to offset the effects!

    A high protein diet fills you up with fewer calories overall, and much better blood sugar stability. All of which greatly helps with fat loss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    Mmm. Yet to be convinced but sure I'll see what happens. I think cutting 500 calories, which would leave me with only 1000 per day is just not sustainable for me to be honest. I don't want to be miserable at the same time.

    The one thing that worked well in the past was weightwatchers, but I don't know how they work out their points. Maybe that was high protein.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    Strayze wrote: »
    Mmm. Yet to be convinced but sure I'll see what happens. I think cutting 500 calories, which would leave me with only 1000 per day is just not sustainable for me to be honest. I don't want to be miserable at the same time.

    The one thing that worked well in the past was weightwatchers, but I don't know how they work out their points. Maybe that was high protein.

    your BMR is 1500

    you exercise lightly approx 3 times a week so using the harris benedict equation we get 1500*1.375= 2062 calories.

    -500 would be 1500 calories.

    riveratom read the stickies for this forum. the stickys should be taken for granted knowledge for everyone posting here in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    sea_monkey wrote: »
    your BMR is 1500

    you exercise lightly approx 3 times a week so using the harris benedict equation we get 1500*1.375= 2062 calories.

    -500 would be 1500 calories.

    riveratom read the stickies for this forum. the stickys should be taken for granted knowledge for everyone posting here in my opinion.

    So I'm eating 700 calories under my maintenance amount. Something is just wrong here. I don't get it.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    riveratom wrote: »
    So carbs aren't a major factor in weight gain then?

    Where did I say to 'eat whatever she wants'? As in eat all the ice-cream she wants like? You can read back and see how I said that she can eat the foods I mentioned without needing to worry about calories. Quite different.

    I actually agree with this.

    @ OP I'm a fairly new person to fitness/diet. I'm five foot eight and at the beginning a couple of months ago I was 10 stone.

    I'm now 10 stone 4 pounds, but actually slimmer than before, I've had to had clothes taken in as I toned up and my waist became slimmer.

    I basically started sailing and wanted to get stronger as opposed to losing weight/toning up, so I started doing a weights programme that a personal trainer on here recommended.

    I also started looking at my diet, I've a moderately active lifestyle classed at level five for anyone who gets that, basically I'm relatively active at work, and exercise several times a week.

    When I calculated my calorie intake on that basis it was far higher than normal.

    Then I started tracking what I ate, and discovered I did eat that and more on some days.

    I switched my diet around (never been a massive carb person, so I added more proteins) and gave myself some flexiblity.

    Result? There isn't anything I can't ever eat, but I enjoy what I do eat and the odd splurge does'nt kill me.

    Since I started sailing/exercising, the biggest difference I notice in my clothes is that my waist is smaller, my chest is slightly wider, and overall I've toned up hugely.

    Diet wise, I'd eat as follows:

    Breakfast:
    Tea/Banana
    Breakfast 2: 16oz latte
    Break: Another latte/nuts/dried fruit
    Lunch: Salad, chicken, egg, cheese, assorted veg, or if eating out which I do then it's chicken/turkey/pork and lots of veg
    Break: Latte/nuts
    Dinner: Chicken/fish/pork, veg, noodles
    Snack: Latte/fruit

    I'll occasionally have potatoes/rice/pasta but not that often, and tbh I missed them at first, but am fine now, I look better, feel better, and I eat far more than you in calories, I've put on a small bit of weight, but look and feel far better for it, and my clothes and how they fit reflect that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    Strayze wrote: »
    So I'm eating 700 calories under my maintenance amount. Something is just wrong here. I don't get it.

    its your diet, you arent tracking it right


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    sea_monkey wrote: »
    its your diet, you arent tracking it right

    I'd agree when I track what I eat it's far more than I think I'm consuming.

    Portion size is a big thing imo


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    sea_monkey wrote: »
    its your diet, you arent tracking it right

    I am actually, I was able to track it grand on weight watchers and I'm tracking it grand with calories. Doesn't take a genius to add. Even if I was out by 200 cals a day I should be losing in your opinion. I actually err on the side of caution I think. Portion sizes are weighed and everything.

    Thanks for the advice stheno. Nice to hear from someone with experience. I think I'll just give it a shot but it does kind if seem like a short term solution. I would wonder if it's sustainable.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    Stheno wrote: »
    I'd agree when I track what I eat it's far more than I think I'm consuming.

    Portion size is a big thing imo

    portion size, cooking methods and snacks are usually underestimated

    2 tablespoons of olive oil is 250calories. its very easy to not even count that.
    a single biscuit is 60calories. its all about learning.

    www.myfitnesspal.com could be a help to you. takes a while to get all your usual foods in order but once thats done its easy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    Already mentioned that I use myfitnesspal. It's great. Also I learned all those tricks with counting oil and sauces and how much spread or butter you use etc. From weightwatchers. I genuinely believe I'm tracking it well.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Strayze wrote: »
    I am actually, I was able to track it grand on weight watchers and I'm tracking it grand with calories. Doesn't take a genius to add. Even if I was out by 200 cals a day I should be losing in your opinion. I actually err on the side of caution I think. Portion sizes are weighed and everything.

    Thanks for the advice stheno. Nice to hear from someone with experience. I think I'll just give it a shot but it does kind if seem like a short term solution. I would wonder if it's sustainable.

    I've been doing it now for about four months, now I'm not focussed on losing weight, but I've toned up regardless. Are you tracking how much you consume in terms of sugar/carbs, protein and fat everyday on the likes of myfitnesspal?

    That was a real eyeopener for me.

    And have you thought about moving away from so much cardio to doing some weights perhaps?

    Before you come back to me with "doing weights makes women look butch" I'm a size 6-8, generally referred to as tiny/small/that skinny bitch, and most people don't believe I lift an ounce let alone a few kilos :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    Strayze wrote: »
    I am actually, I was able to track it grand on weight watchers and I'm tracking it grand with calories. Doesn't take a genius to add. Even if I was out by 200 cals a day I should be losing in your opinion. I actually err on the side of caution I think. Portion sizes are weighed and everything.

    Thanks for the advice stheno. Nice to hear from someone with experience. I think I'll just give it a shot but it does kind if seem like a short term solution. I would wonder if it's sustainable.

    im not getting at you

    you have to look at it in a cold light.
    you said you were 700calories under yet no weight loss.
    then you have to look at it and see that you are not 700calories under.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    sea_monkey wrote: »
    im not getting at you

    you have to look at it in a cold light.
    you said you were 700calories under yet no weight loss.
    then you have to look at it and see that you are not 700calories under.

    Well I don't know what to say to you apart from that I've weighed and tracked everything and I'm genuinely baffled. I wouldn't be on here asking for advice if I was secretly having an extra portion of rice here or a snack there. I'm tracking it all! Sure, there may be room for 100, 200 calories tops that I'm not accounting for (although I can't see that) but I genuinely don't believe that I'm eating an extra 700 calories a day. And just saying "you're obviously eating too much" isn't really that helpful when I've told you I'm really not.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    Strayze wrote: »
    Well I don't know what to say to you apart from that I've weighed and tracked everything and I'm genuinely baffled. I wouldn't be on here asking for advice if I was secretly having an extra portion of rice here or a snack there. I'm tracking it all! Sure, there may be room for 100, 200 calories tops that I'm not accounting for (although I can't see that) but I genuinely don't believe that I'm eating an extra 700 calories a day. And just saying "you're obviously eating too much" isn't really that helpful when I've told you I'm really not.

    well if youre 100% on your diet then keep at it and work on the fitness.
    youve said youre making progress there so youre moving in the healthy direction. if the diet is good and the exercise is getting better then you cant go wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    Stheno wrote: »
    I've been doing it now for about four months, now I'm not focussed on losing weight, but I've toned up regardless. Are you tracking how much you consume in terms of sugar/carbs, protein and fat everyday on the likes of myfitnesspal?

    That was a real eyeopener for me.

    And have you thought about moving away from so much cardio to doing some weights perhaps?

    Before you come back to me with "doing weights makes women look butch" I'm a size 6-8, generally referred to as tiny/small/that skinny bitch, and most people don't believe I lift an ounce let alone a few kilos :)

    Yeah I keep track and it works out about 45% carbs, 30% protein and 25% fat on a typical day I'd say. (Don't know if that's good or bad)

    I do want to lift more weights. I'd like each gym session to be half and half really. I don't think I do very much cardio at the mo but I definitely don't want to just spend 40 mins on the eliptical. I think I actually enjoy the weights a bit more. It's a real buzz when you can do a few more reps than you use to be able to :)


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Strayze wrote: »
    Well I don't know what to say to you apart from that I've weighed and tracked everything and I'm genuinely baffled. I wouldn't be on here asking for advice if I was secretly having an extra portion of rice here or a snack there. I'm tracking it all! Sure, there may be room for 100, 200 calories tops that I'm not accounting for (although I can't see that) but I genuinely don't believe that I'm eating an extra 700 calories a day. And just saying "you're obviously eating too much" isn't really that helpful when I've told you I'm really not.

    With what I posted above as my diet I hit well over 2200 calories per day, particularly when I factor in the odd chocolate bar etc

    Does that seem right to you compared to what you eat?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    sea_monkey wrote: »
    well if youre 100% on your diet then keep at it and work on the fitness.
    youve said youre making progress there so youre moving in the healthy direction. if the diet is good and the exercise is getting better then you cant go wrong.

    Cheers, sorry it's just frustrating to be keeping such a close eye on what I'm eating, then not losing weight and having someone say you're obviously eating too much, makes it even more frustrating!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I generally advocate reducing carb intake as its generally where people make the biggest mess of their diet, however some of the 'facts' of this thread are off.
    riveratom wrote: »
    -The carbs get converted to glucose which is used for energy. However, any excess effectively gets stored as flab. It doesn't take much at all for that to happen,
    That doesn't actually happen in any realistic situation.
    riveratom wrote: »
    A high protein diet fills you up with fewer calories overall, and much better blood sugar stability. All of which greatly helps with fat loss.

    You spent the last couple of posts talking about how calories don't matter, and yet here you listing reduce calories as a benefit of a high protein. It's contradictory.


    If you were both being so dogmatic and wound it back a bit you'd be saying the same thing;
    • Eat 500 below maintenance, made up of real food, enough protein
    • Eat high protein and low carbs, that way you'll be full and eat less calories

    OP, keep aiming for 1300 cals a day. That way if you overshoot a bit you'll still be around 1500.
    Try to you get 140g of protein a day. Use the remaining calories on real food.
    Meals should be built around a protein source with vegetables. Flavour food with herbs, spices, coconut cream/milk, soy or a light sauce and not a jars of sugary premade stuff. Veg based sauces like tomato pasta sauce are fine.
    Avoid carb/energy dense sides like pasta/rice/bread.
    Don't be afraid to take in healthy fats.
    Limit sugars and processed foods


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    I'll give an example of today. Burned 300 calories in the gym this morn.

    So 1600 cals to work with.

    I had:
    Medium banana - 105
    Whey protein - 119
    2 large eggs - 140
    Slice of whole meal - 94
    Coffee - 0
    Milk (for the day although I usually just have it once) - 88

    Lunch:
    2 whole meal slices - 188
    Small amount of tuna sweet corn and light mayo - I approximate 200 cals

    Dinner:
    Chicken breast - 170
    Oil tbsp 119
    Soy sauce tbsp - 10
    Mixed veg - 40
    50g brown rice - 175

    Snacks:
    Prebiotic yoghurt - 69
    Wholemeal slice - 94
    Tsp raspberry jam - 20


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Strayze wrote: »
    Yeah I keep track and it works out about 45% carbs, 30% protein and 25% fat on a typical day I'd say. (Don't know if that's good or bad)

    I do want to lift more weights. I'd like each gym session to be half and half really. I don't think I do very much cardio at the mo but I definitely don't want to just spend 40 mins on the eliptical. I think I actually enjoy the weights a bit more. It's a real buzz when you can do a few more reps than you use to be able to :)

    I aim to be 40/30/30 in terms of carbs/fat/protein so a bit more fat, and a little less carbs than you :) so close enough. Cutting out the bread, eliminating low fat stuff from your diet and you are probably me :)

    Do you actually lift weights or do you use the machines in the gym?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 Strayze


    Stheno wrote: »
    I aim to be 40/30/30 in terms of carbs/fat/protein so a bit more fat, and a little less carbs than you :) so close enough. Cutting out the bread, eliminating low fat stuff from your diet and you are probably me :)

    Do you actually lift weights or do you use the machines in the gym?

    I use the machines. Not even that many of them really but I'm afraid to try any of the ones I don't know in case I break my neck!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Strayze wrote: »
    I use the machines. Not even that many of them really but I'm afraid to try any of the ones I don't know in case I break my neck!

    Ok tbh I used use machines, and I was terrified of them.

    Then this year, sick of wasting money on gym membership and not going as I didn't enjoy it I spent 55e on a session with a personal trainer, and got a plan for me with stability and flexibility exercises and working with free weights.

    I felt a right wally (I'm a woman) going into the weight areas with all those blokes in their wife beaters hoisting giant weights to do my 10kg lifts at first, but got given plenty of space.

    And I enjoyed it more, found it developed my strength more and as I had a proper programme I progressed about every two weeks, and was delighted with myself with every small bit of progression I made.

    Might be worth considering?

    I then built from that and combined my gym sessions with my sailing to understand what calories I consumed day to day in terms of normal and gym/sailing activity.

    That gave me a true basis to calculate calorie need (read the stickies on here to help you with that) Given I weigh less than you and am taller by an inch when I started, I'm eating far more than you are, but maintaining my weight and toning up a lot. I'm 5 foot eight and your weight now, before I started I was a good five pounds lighter, so I eat far more than you, possibly do the same as or more exercise than you, but I eat very differently to you, and the exercise I do is very different, I do very little cardio, sailing is about weights/ squatting, flexibility, then I do more weights/ squatting, flexibility/endurance in the gym, and don't go near machines.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Strayze wrote: »
    I'll give an example of today. Burned 300 calories in the gym this morn.

    So 1600 cals to work with.

    I had:
    Medium banana - 105
    Whey protein - 119
    2 large eggs - 140
    Slice of whole meal - 94 (Carbs)
    Coffee - 0
    Milk (for the day although I usually just have it once) - 88

    Lunch:
    2 whole meal slices - 188 (Carbs)
    Small amount of tuna sweet corn and light mayo - I approximate 200 cals

    Dinner:
    Chicken breast - 170
    Oil tbsp 119
    Soy sauce tbsp - 10
    Mixed veg - 40
    50g brown rice - 175 (Carbs)

    Snacks:
    Prebiotic yoghurt - 69
    Wholemeal slice - 94 (Carbs)
    Tsp raspberry jam - 20

    I think the highlighed is your problem, plus the likes of soy sauce, raspberry jam, light mayo, contribute, soy sauce/jam are sugar, lite mayo is full of junk.

    Swap the bread for salad/or a wrap if you need to, get rid of the jam/mayo and you may see a difference.

    An average gym/sailing session for me would burn about 500 calories at least.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭WrigleysExtra


    OP based on your details in the first post I have calculated your BMR to be 1396 calories and your TDEE to be 1920 calories per day. This is based on you being 5 foot 7, 24 years old, female, 135 pounds and I have put you down as working out 3 days per week.

    Rather than taking away 500 calories from your TDEE, you need to take away a percentage of your TDEE. I have chosen -15% to start off with and this puts you at 1632 calories per day. The breakdown of the macros I have chosen 1.25g protein per pound of bodyweight. For fats I have chosen 0.4g per pound of bodyweight and the carbs are made up of the remaining calories.

    This works out at:

    Protein: 168.8g per day
    Fat: 54g per day
    Carbs: 117.8g per day

    Now these values can be changed depending on what foods you generally prefer to eat. For example when calculating my own intakes I prefer to have more fat so I will chose a fat value of 0.45g per pound of bodyweight and adjust my protein/carbs accordingly.

    Don't discriminate against breads of pasta or potatoes but do take into account that you should be eating 25 to 30g of fiber per day so in order to reach that target you will need to be eating fruits and veg. To reach the protein target you can add in protein shakes.

    As far as cardio and fat loss goes. I think it's best to lose body fat through diet alone and limit cardio. Women should lift weights the same as men so that means you should bench, squat, deadlift, shoulder press, bicep curl etc.

    You need to track your macro intake and if you are not losing any fat you should reduce the calories by a little bit every 2 weeks or so. This might mean reducing the carbs by 10g until you see fat loss start. Try not to get too hung up on the scale because if you are adding muscle then this will offset any fat loss that might occur. Also don't get hung up if you eat a biscuit or bar or bags of crisps. Just take note of the nutritional values and try hit your macro targets. As long as you are eating well 90% of the time then you will do fine.

    Remember that consistency is imperative if you want to see results and realise that changing your body composition can take months.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 252 ✭✭Gin77


    Strayze wrote: »
    I took measurements though and nothing has changed so I don't know if it's just muscle gain :/ I'm trying not to get hung up on scale numbers but I feel the exact same as I did 4 weeks ago if I'm honest, clothes seems to fit the same too.

    An idea of my diet:

    Breakfast:
    Usually banana on whole meal toast
    Recently been having 2 eggs on one slice toast to increase protein intake

    Lunch:
    Tuna sandwich or egg salad sandwich
    Depends really where I am, sometimes soup

    Dinner:
    I mostly stir fry a chicken breast, add a variety of veg and soy sauce with either a cup of brown rice or a small nest of noodles
    Sometimes have spag Bol, curry etc. But not as often

    Snacks:
    Usually a banana
    Raspberry probiotic drinks
    Odd time toast
    Protein shakes after a workout (with water)

    I don't drink much tea or anything. Usually just a cup of coffee in the morning with a little milk.

    I've read that bread could be an issue but I've lost weight in the past without cutting out bread, so I don't know? Should I reduce my calorie intake further?

    I'm no expert but I lived in France for many years and maybe I picked up some different advise to what I usually heard at home in Ireland.

    1) Don't eat bananas if you want to lose weight, they're really high in sugar.
    2) Don't drink water before or during your meal, reduces the effectiveness of the acid in the stomach.
    3) If you want to "brule les graisse" Burn the fat/grease. Cardio exercise up to 45min only burns the sugars in the body. Everything after 45min burns actual fat. Try hill walking or Nordic walking it doesn't need to be intense excersise (slow burn).
    4) No carbs after midday lunch, just have white meat/fish (easier to breakdown) and veg.
    5) Limit alcohol.
    6) Do the weights before the cardio.

    Not saying any of this is right but the french are a pretty fit bunch.


  • Site Banned Posts: 64 ✭✭Rick Rod


    Strayze wrote: »
    I took measurements though and nothing has changed so I don't know if it's just muscle gain :/ I'm trying not to get hung up on scale numbers but I feel the exact same as I did 4 weeks ago if I'm honest, clothes seems to fit the same too.

    An idea of my diet:

    Breakfast:
    Usually banana on whole meal toast
    Recently been having 2 eggs on one slice toast to increase protein intake

    Lunch:
    Tuna sandwich or egg salad sandwich
    Depends really where I am, sometimes soup

    Dinner:
    I mostly stir fry a chicken breast, add a variety of veg and soy sauce with either a cup of brown rice or a small nest of noodles
    Sometimes have spag Bol, curry etc. But not as often

    Snacks:
    Usually a banana
    Raspberry probiotic drinks
    Odd time toast
    Protein shakes after a workout (with water)

    I don't drink much tea or anything. Usually just a cup of coffee in the morning with a little milk.

    I've read that bread could be an issue but I've lost weight in the past without cutting out bread, so I don't know? Should I reduce my calorie intake further?

    Way too much carbs. Replace with acidic fruit


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭WrigleysExtra


    Gin77 wrote: »
    I'm no expert but I lived in France for many years and maybe I picked up some different advise to what I usually heard at home in Ireland.

    1) Don't eat bananas if you want to lose weight, they're really high in sugar.
    2) Don't drink water before or during your meal, reduces the effectiveness of the acid in the stomach.
    3) If you want to "brule les graisse" Burn the fat/grease. Cardio exercise up to 45min only burns the sugars in the body. Everything after 45min burns actual fat. Try hill walking or Nordic walking it doesn't need to be intense excersise (slow burn).
    4) No carbs after midday lunch, just have white meat/fish (easier to breakdown) and veg.
    5) Limit alcohol.
    6) Do the weights before the cardio.

    Not saying any of this is right but the french are a pretty fit bunch.

    Wow so much nonsense in one post. Impressive.


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