Where might I be going wrong?

runawaybishop

Strayze wrote: »

1) may be true but now people are saying to cut out the banana I eat and I love bananas! I'll try sub more in

2) soy sauce is one of those things I can't live without, love it. Can I just ask what's wrong with a little sugar if there is no junk in my diet? Genuine question.

3) like I said I started out really poorly I admit, I could barely do 3 minutes on the bike. I think I'm at that stage now where I would like to be incorporating more weights so I might see if I can get my programme looked at.

4) the 300 calories is just in the cardio. I'm not sure how many calories weights account for so I just don't include them. Where do you find that info?

5) I'll definitely look into that. I'm trying to build up to going 5 or 6 days a week but I find that my muscles can be very sore and tired if I go two days in a row. Maybe there's something I can do to prevent that?

6) the protein shake is 119 calories. Which I wouldn't have thought was too bad in fairness. It was my boyfriends idea to increase protein in my diet and has actually worked a little I think. (Judging from myfitnesspal my carb content went from 55 to 45% recently) Obviously I'm no body builder but I couldn't see the harm. Plus - tasty chocolate!



I can reply to everyone but what I'm gathering from the general trend of the thread is that maybe I should cut down on the amount of carbs in my diet, while remaining in the calorie deficit.

There's a lot of other contradictory stuff going on about doing more than 45 mins of cardio a day and doing no cardio at all. So I'm not sure.

1) the odd banana wont make or break your diet.

2) a small bit of sauce likewise wont make or break your diet.

3) 30-45 minutes 3 times a week working hard would be fine.

4) its hard to figure out calories form weight lifting as its not all immediate and is based on a lot of stuff, such as how much muscle you have

5) You shouldn't work out the same muscle group 2 days in a row, you need to give your body time to recover.

6) There's nothing wrong with a protein shake, assuming it fits into your macro requirements. The protein shake should be a supplement to your diet though, try and get your protein from real food first.


Carbs aren't the devil some people seems to be indicating they are. Sort out your protein (most people eat too little), good fats and fill the rest in with good carbs. Bread is generally to be avoided if you can (its just not very filling or nutritional for the calouries), the odd sandwich now and again wont kill you though.

another question

Strayze wrote: »

1) may be true but now people are saying to cut out the banana I eat and I love bananas! I'll try sub more in

2) soy sauce is one of those things I can't live without, love it. Can I just ask what's wrong with a little sugar if there is no junk in my diet? Genuine question.

3) like I said I started out really poorly I admit, I could barely do 3 minutes on the bike. I think I'm at that stage now where I would like to be incorporating more weights so I might see if I can get my programme looked at.

4) the 300 calories is just in the cardio. I'm not sure how many calories weights account for so I just don't include them. Where do you find that info?

5) I'll definitely look into that. I'm trying to build up to going 5 or 6 days a week but I find that my muscles can be very sore and tired if I go two days in a row. Maybe there's something I can do to prevent that?

6) the protein shake is 119 calories. Which I wouldn't have thought was too bad in fairness. It was my boyfriends idea to increase protein in my diet and has actually worked a little I think. (Judging from myfitnesspal my carb content went from 55 to 45% recently) Obviously I'm no body builder but I couldn't see the harm. Plus - tasty chocolate!



I can reply to everyone but what I'm gathering from the general trend of the thread is that maybe I should cut down on the amount of carbs in my diet, while remaining in the calorie deficit.

There's a lot of other contradictory stuff going on about doing more than 45 mins of cardio a day and doing no cardio at all. So I'm not sure.

You're absolutely right on many points you made there. If you love bananas eat them, if you love soy sauce eat it because when a healthy diet becomes depressing hard work you will never stick at it, you have to enjoy your food.

There is nothing wrong with a little sugar at all but it is present in the banana and the bread and the protein shake and the jam. Just because you're not eating chocolate doesn't mean you're not eating sugar, that's all.

I suppose when I go from my regular diet to a cutting diet for 2 weeks maybe 2 -3 times a year, I cut out all sauces and things like that and eat completely clean and that's what really works for me.

How is your water intake btw?

I wouldn't be too worried about cardio, weights are amazing for weightloss. The best difference between the two is that your body stops burning calories when you stop doing cardio but when you do a good weights session, your body continues burning calories for hours after you've stopped.

Cardio IMO, is great for getting the heart pumping and getting everything warmed up but unless it's hard core running or step aerobics for an hour like I do and you really, really sweat to me, anything less I consider to be a warm up.

Also, generally the rule I learned about weights training is generally 2 days on, 1 day off. Believe it or not your muscles will stop being as sore if you do it this way.

Nuts are a great snack too, full of protein, a natural food, full of good fats and give you tons of energy and keep you full.

Alf Veedersane

riveratom wrote: »

You might be right there, or you might not be!

I would be surprised if any of the main contributors to the Nutrition stickies, especialyl Nutrition 101, would be posting up asking for opinions on their diet before going on holidays.

Strayze

another question wrote: »

You're absolutely right on many points you made there. If you love bananas eat them, if you love soy sauce eat it because when a healthy diet becomes depressing hard work you will never stick at it, you have to enjoy your food.

There is nothing wrong with a little sugar at all but it is present in the banana and the bread and the protein shake and the jam. Just because you're not eating chocolate doesn't mean you're not eating sugar, that's all.

I suppose when I go from my regular diet to a cutting diet for 2 weeks maybe 2 -3 times a year, I cut out all sauces and things like that and eat completely clean and that's what really works for me.

How is your water intake btw?

I wouldn't be too worried about cardio, weights are amazing for weightloss. The best difference between the two is that your body stops burning calories when you stop doing cardio but when you do a good weights session, your body continues burning calories for hours after you've stopped.

Cardio IMO, is great for getting the heart pumping and getting everything warmed up but unless it's hard core running or step aerobics for an hour like I do and you really, really sweat to me, anything less I consider to be a warm up.

Also, generally the rule I learned about weights training is generally 2 days on, 1 day off. Believe it or not your muscles will stop being as sore if you do it this way.

Nuts are a great snack too, full of protein, a natural food, full of good fats and give you tons of energy and keep you full.

Thanks for the advice! My water intake isn't too bad. I don't know if I'd get the full 2 litres a day that's recommended but I don't drink much tea or coffee or other drinks so I tend to drink water with meals. I prob get about 1L-1.5L

Does that affect much?

riveratom

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I would be surprised if any of the main contributors to the Nutrition stickies, especialyl Nutrition 101, would be posting up asking for opinions on their diet before going on holidays.

Would that be because unlike myself, they might be afraid to admit that they might not know it all then?

For the record, I didn't get one single comment on that thread going against the approach. Must mean I know a thing or two, ay?

runawaybishop

riveratom wrote: »

Would that be because unlike myself, they might be afraid to admit that they might not know it all then?

For the record, I didn't get one single comment on that thread going against the approach. Must mean I know a thing or two, ay?

Post 2 in that thread, from me :pac:

Alf Veedersane

riveratom wrote: »

Would that be because unlike myself, they might be afraid to admit that they might not know it all then?

For the record, I didn't get one single comment on that thread going against the approach. Must mean I know a thing or two, ay?

You might know a thing or two but if you knew a thing or two more than you do you might not need a two-week plan :P

riveratom

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You might know a thing or two but if you knew a thing or two more than you do you might not need a two-week plan :P

Nope not necessarily. A short-term plan can work very effectively in the run up to a special event.

As my abs are now beginning to testify

Alf Veedersane

riveratom wrote: »

Nope not necessarily. A short-term plan can work very effectively in the run up to a special event.

But it's not sustainable, which was one of the queries you had about your plan.

riveratom

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But it's not sustainable, which was one of the queries you had about your plan.

In fact, I actually went with the PSMF option, which is designed as a very short-term solution (not sustainable or recommended past 1-2 weeks more or less).

As for what I originally put forward as my plan, I would see that diet as totally sustainable.

WrigleysExtra

another question wrote: »

My two cents after reading all the posts is:

1) Way too may carbs in your diet and not enough fruit and veg

2) Cut out things like jam and soy sauce, they are full of sugar

3) You have a sedentary job, you should be able to manage longer than 35 minutes in the gym

4) I don't know how heavy the weights are that you are lifting, but if you are only burning 300 calories in a gym session there is something wrong somewhere, I'd burn more than that when I'm asleep!

5) You say you go every other day, is that 3 or 4 days a week? If you went 5 days a week and did all weights one day, cardio & core the next and vice versa, I think you would notice the difference with 3 really good weight days a week

6) Protein shakes are calorie dense, they are for people who lift serious weights and need to replenish their muscles or who are muscle building, that's not you, you're just trying to tone up and lose a few pounds, drop it, you don't need it.

Are you sure you're not mixing up protein shakes with mass gainer shakes. There's plenty of brands out there with low fat and carb blends and if you are drinking them with water then theres even less calories. I personally drink mine with milk.

Johnny Drama_11

I'm confused.com

Alf Veedersane

Johnny Drama_11 wrote: »

I'm confused.com

Knowledge of nutrition has increased exponentially in the five years since people stopped saying confused.com

Gin77

WrigleysExtra wrote: »

Do you expect people to take you seriously by saying not to eat carbs after midday? Come on do you really believe that?

Seriously is that all that is bothering you!
Its based on how they eat their meals, breakie @ 7am, midi @ 12 to 2pm and diner @ 7 to 8 pm, Snacks @ 11am & 4pm.
I'm not trying to shove this method down your throat. I just thought maybe somebody might see something interesting in it.
We can all benefit from different perspectives, you can only operate based on info given, the more different opinions you have, the more you can make up your own mind.
If anyone is interested I have scanned the diet sheet I was given its in french.

Blacktie.

Well that was entertaining. A calorie is a calorie. You can diet with eating junk and being on a calorie deficit but you're going to feel like crap doing it. Replacing junk food with healthy alternatives is so effective for weight loss because generally speaking you're going to feel full on a lot less calories and you won't feel horrible the whole time while doing it. Sounds like you have some good sense on using both methods to reach your goal. There is a lot of contradicting information out there but the more you know the more you'll be able to figure it all out for yourself. My advise is don't become too extreme on either side of it. Do what you feel is sustainable and is a step in the right direction. Sustainability is key here!

WrigleysExtra

Blacktie. wrote: »

Well that was entertaining. A calorie is a calorie. You can diet with eating junk and being on a calorie deficit but you're going to feel like crap doing it. Replacing junk food with healthy alternatives is so effective for weight loss because generally speaking you're going to feel full on a lot less calories and you won't feel horrible the whole time while doing it. Sounds like you have some good sense on using both methods to reach your goal. There is a lot of contradicting information out there but the more you know the more you'll be able to figure it all out for yourself. My advise is don't become too extreme on either side of it. Do what you feel is sustainable and is a step in the right direction. Sustainability is key here!

Sustainability is key. I know plenty of people who were put on paleo diets which basically cut out all starchy carbs and yes along with exercise it worked for a month or two. After that they had become so miserable and irritable and had lost motivation to continue with the diet.

Theres was of course the post diet carb up which caused weight gain and because their metabolism' took a hit they found it harder to shift the weight when they went back on the same diet.

Keep a balanced approach.

Strayze

Blacktie. wrote: »

Well that was entertaining. A calorie is a calorie. You can diet with eating junk and being on a calorie deficit but you're going to feel like crap doing it. Replacing junk food with healthy alternatives is so effective for weight loss because generally speaking you're going to feel full on a lot less calories and you won't feel horrible the whole time while doing it. Sounds like you have some good sense on using both methods to reach your goal. There is a lot of contradicting information out there but the more you know the more you'll be able to figure it all out for yourself. My advise is don't become too extreme on either side of it. Do what you feel is sustainable and is a step in the right direction. Sustainability is key here!

Yeah I've been reading up about high protein diets now and it seems to be a good short term solution to weight loss. I don't think that's what I'm after really. I'm not overweight currently so I don't really mind if it takes up to 6 months or more to lose 10 pounds. I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. Might swap out the bread because I'm aware there's a lot of sugar and "simple" carbs (is that right?) in bread and replace it with fruit or veg. Won't be cutting out carbs completely I think.


What would be a better substitute for beer at the weekend, out of interest?

riveratom

WrigleysExtra wrote: »

Sustainability is key. I know plenty of people who were put on paleo diets which basically cut out all starchy carbs and yes along with exercise it worked for a month or two. After that they had become so miserable and irritable and had lost motivation to continue with the diet.

Theres was of course the post diet carb up which caused weight gain and because their metabolism' took a hit they found it harder to shift the weight when they went back on the same diet.

Keep a balanced approach.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water though. No diet can work if it's not sustainable, no matter what it is.

If you love your toast, spuds and pasta too much to give them up or at least cut them right down, and you don't tolerate carbs that well, then you can't also hope to be ripped, for example.

It's all about your priorities and what's going to work for you really.

runawaybishop

Strayze wrote: »

Yeah I've been reading up about high protein diets now and it seems to be a good short term solution to weight loss. I don't think that's what I'm after really. I'm not overweight currently so I don't really mind if it takes up to 6 months or more to lose 10 pounds. I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. Might swap out the bread because I'm aware there's a lot of sugar and "simple" carbs (is that right?) in bread and replace it with fruit or veg. Won't be cutting out carbs completely I think.


What would be a better substitute for beer at the weekend, out of interest?

Spirits - vodka and coke zero for example.

Strayze

runawaybishop wrote: »

Spirits - vodka and coke zero for example.

Orange juice work or is that just as bad? I'm such a wimp with spirits so generally need something strong flavoured to cover it.

And how's wine?

runawaybishop

Strayze wrote: »

Orange juice work or is that just as bad? I'm such a wimp with spirits so generally need something strong flavoured to cover it.

And how's wine?

Orange juice and wine aren't anywhere near as good as a diet drink I'm afraid.

sea_monkey

vodka with orange dilute or 7up free.

avoid the takeaway after too :P

Strayze

I guess I knew this

Luckily not a drunken eater really! Thank god for that!

Alf Veedersane

Strayze wrote: »

Orange juice work or is that just as bad? I'm such a wimp with spirits so generally need something strong flavoured to cover it.

And how's wine?

I wouldn't recommend vodka and wine, tee bee haych...

another question

Strayze wrote: »

I guess I knew this

Luckily not a drunken eater really! Thank god for that!

I'm one of those! Nightmare

Well not drunk exactly....but definitely always, always get the major munchies from a few glasses of wine.

Sunday night I was particularly bad, had a massive dinner, followed by a chocolate brownie and ice - cream followed by cheese on toast followed by white chocolate followed by fig rolls.

Alka seltzers were fizzing by 1am.

Johnny Drama_11

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Knowledge of nutrition has increased exponentially in the five years since people stopped saying confused.com

This increase, do you think it has led to differing views or even fads i.e. some may have said eggs are bad now some say eggs are good, the different diets that have come and gone, Atkins, juice etc...

Genuine question by the way. It would appear these days that there is so many differing views to diet/nutrition and health in general that it would be easy to not see the wood from the trees.

Alf Veedersane

Johnny Drama_11 wrote: »

This increase, do you think it has led to differing views or even fads i.e. some may have said eggs are bad now some say eggs are good, the different diets that have come and gone, Atkins, juice etc...

Genuine question by the way. It would appear these days that there is so many differing views to diet/nutrition and health in general that it would be easy to not see the wood from the trees.

There are still plenty of fads and still plenty of people willing to give them a try.

But nothing has changed with regard to proper eating choices. That said there are more people aware of those eating choices now.

Mellor

riveratom wrote: »

Mellor, do you actually believe your first statement that excess glucose does not lead to fat gain?

That's not what I said. Lots of things can "lead to" fat gain.

You said that excess carbs will turn to flab (fat). I was pointing out that that doesn't actually happen. Your body doesn't waste energy converting any carbs into fat. What are excess carbs? Excess to what.

It's a minor point, but you appear to be obsessed with minor difference between protein and carb calories.

Excess calories = weight gain.
Defect calories = weight loss.

It really is that simple. No matter what foods you eat, you need a deficit.
Nobody is saying your body reacts to protein and carbs the same, or that you can eat what ever you want. And all calories are not precisely the same. But the difference is tiny. Before you start chasing an ideal macro breakdown you need to focus on calories intake*.

FWIW, I've already said that I think high protein and reduces carbs is ideal. And just because somebody is losing weight following a high protein diet without tracking calories, it doesn't mean that they weren't reducing calories.

riveratom

Mellor wrote: »

That's not what I said. Lots of things can "lead to" fat gain.

You said that excess carbs will turn to flab (fat). I was pointing out that that doesn't actually happen. Your body doesn't waste energy converting any carbs into fat. What are excess carbs? Excess to what.

Carbs are converted into glucose, which is stored in the liver and muscles as glycogen. Once your storage reserves are 'full', which effectively happens when either you don't use the glucose for daily activity or exercise, or there is no room left for storage - the net result is that the body stores it as fat.

Excess = not metabolised. Excess is what is left over when something is not used up and cannot be stored.

On the flip side, and in line with the approach I recommend - when you restrict carb intake, the body has little option but to switch to using primarily fat as fuel.

Mellor wrote: »

It's a minor point, but you appear to be obsessed with minor difference between protein and carb calories.

Excess calories = weight gain.
Defect calories = weight loss.

It really is that simple. No matter what foods you eat, you need a deficit.
Nobody is saying your body reacts to protein and carbs the same, or that you can eat what ever you want. And all calories are not precisely the same. But the difference is tiny. Before you start chasing an ideal macro breakdown you need to focus on calories intake*.

Where you are mistaken is in how you underestimate the difference between protein and carbs (which is effectively the same as saying 'protein and carb calories'). It is FAR easier for the body to use carbs as a source of fuel, leaving fat behind. When you restrict carbs, the body has to go looking for other sources - first fat, then protein.

If you really believe there is a 'tiny difference', sorry but it's back to the books I'm afraid (or Google).

I think I said in probably my second or third post that I am not arguing with the laws of thermodynamics (excess calories = weight gain, deficit = loss). I have never disputed that! Focusing on calorie intake over macro-breakdown is the wrong approach. If you focus your food intake primarily around protein, veg, meat, fish, eggs and some fibrous and starchy carbs, the calories become FAR less important and tend to take care of themselves. And the reason I brought all of this up from the outset was to help the OP!

Think about it, the OP comes on and says she has been watching her calories like a hawk, but has had NO results. I come along and give her another way of tackling this, but everyone else comes on and tells her she has to focus even more closely on working on the flawed approach!!

Mellor wrote: »

FWIW, I've already said that I think high protein and reduces carbs is ideal. And just because somebody is losing weight following a high protein diet without tracking calories, it doesn't mean that they weren't reducing calories.

Never said they weren't! Go back and check my post where I said (and which you picked me up on in fact!), that you if change up your eating habits in favour of protein and fat, you will reduce your calories automatically!

You are basically quoting my own posts back to me!

Bottom line - I am not saying that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply. What I AM saying is that counting calories is a flawed, really not ideal approach - and that there is a better way to melt fat fast. The OP started this thread to hopefully get some advice that will work for her. Telling her to be better at counting calories when that has been shown to be an all out FAIL for her is hardly the way to go here, is it?!

What was it Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again...!

runawaybishop

riveratom wrote: »

On the flip side, and in line with the approach I recommend - when you restrict carb intake, the body has little option but to switch to using primarily fat as fuel.

This is only a partial explanation. When you restrict carbs to a certain level you use fat as a fuel. Just lowering carbs will not push you into producing ketones, you must reduce them enough. This is an important distinction as just lowering carbs but not entering keto will result in lethargy and lack of energy. Even when you are in keto you need to carb up if you are doing lifting. It is not sufficient to say that lowering carbs will result in using fat as a fuel and that's all that matters.

You are encouraging the OP to begin a keto diet without explaining it properly. Stop that

riveratom wrote: »

What I AM saying is that counting calories is a flawed, really not ideal approach - and that there is a better way to melt fat fast. The OP started this thread to hopefully get some advice that will work for her. Telling her to be better at counting calories when that has been shown to be an all out FAIL for her is hardly the way to go here, is it?!

Counting calories is completely valid. Saying that keto is better than X for fat loss is just too generic a statement to make. At the end of the day successful keto diets are completely reliant on calorie counting.