Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 11:30PM

Nodin wrote: »

Wtf are you on about?

They took the kid. That's what people are objecting to. We've an thread full of posts on those lines.

you assumed they went about their job the wrong way , you have no proof either way , then you posted no one gives a crap , again an assumption , lots of people will care they had the paper work sorted

we also have a thread full of people who disagree with you - that's wtf i am on about

Ace2007 · 24-10-2013 11:31PM

Gatling wrote: »

Its both the gardai and the concerned neighbor are racist according to a lot of posters on here

seriously, Roma people may have a bad name but it has nothing to do with their skin colour. People generalise them all because of a few bad apples.

I asked you a question twice that you seem to not want to answer....

Ace2007 · 24-10-2013 11:32PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you assumed they went about their job the wrong way , you have no proof either way , then you posted no one gives a crap , again an assumption , lots of people will care they had the paper work sorted

we also have a thread full of people who disagree with you - that's wtf i am on about

There are 3 separate official investigations being launched. If they did their job the right way - there wouldn't be 3.

Gatling · 24-10-2013 11:33PM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Agreed, and that's what I find a little bizarre. It seems that even to raise the concern, to check it out, to do all the tests to be sure etc...this in of itself is being called out as racist?

Exactly ,

Racial profiling had nothing to with it either ,

A concerned citizen makes a complaint ,the gardai responded and get wishy washy dates of birth ,different names , an infants passport ,

But no its all racism

Nodin · 24-10-2013 11:33PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you assumed they went about their job the wrong way , you have no proof either way ,..........

I have, in that they took the child.

strandroad · 24-10-2013 11:33PM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Agreed, and that's what I find a little bizarre. It seems that even to raise the concern, to check it out, to do all the tests to be sure etc...this in of itself is being called out as racist?

That depends on whether such proceedings (child not resembling parents removed pending investigation) were instigated against Irish parents or not.

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 11:35PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

There are 3 separate official investigations being launched. If they did their job the right way - there wouldn't be 3.

so you are calling the result 10 days before anyone else knows the result ??

can i have the euro millions numbers for the weekend while you are doing the old crystal ball reading

the point of inquiry is to find fault if any , not to automatically assume guilt or wrong doing.

all could be absolved of any wrong doing.

Sala · 24-10-2013 11:35PM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Interesting...genuine question then. To the posters on this thread that believe the Gardai were racist...had they simply monitored the family, followed them everywhere they went, camped outside their home etc etc, would this not also have been racism?

I don't know if the Gardai were racist, I think a bit of hysteria arose from the Greece case, people probably reported children they had wondered about as they felt it was the right thing to do just in case, and the Gardai did what they thought best. Whether their actions were legal or excessive remains to be seen, but I have not seen evidence they acted maliciously. The DNA tests only took a couple of days. The parents may have been upset with the monitoring, but the children, especially the small boy, would not have been aware of what was going on. If the children were in no danger in the home, which I presume they weren't as they have been returned, the best course of action, I think,would be to leave the children unaware of the investigation.

droidus · 24-10-2013 11:36PM

For everyone claiming that the case in Greece somehow justifies what has happened here - guess what? That blue eyed, blonde haired, racially pure child was Roma as well:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/maria-mystery-thats-our-girl-say-bulgarian-family-29697568.html

So you can put down your torches and pitchforks. Evil gypsies are not going around stealing christian children. The aryan race is safe.

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 11:37PM

Nodin wrote: »

I have, in that they took the child.

yea , what ever , they done their job under the law they have to act under, i am going to assume the 4 garda and one social worker might have had a teeny weeny bit more insight to the situation at the time than you do .

Gatling · 24-10-2013 11:37PM

droidus wrote: »

For everyone claiming that the case in Greece somehow justifies what has happened here - guess what? That blue eyed, blonde haired, racially pure child was Roma as well:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/maria-mystery-thats-our-girl-say-bulgarian-family-29697568.html

So you can put down your torches and pitchforks. Evil gypsies are not going around stealing christian children. The aryan race is safe.

Along with the 8000 others who claim the girl is there's

Sala · 24-10-2013 11:38PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

Sala wrote: »

Most of this thread is based on assumptions, but I would agree they could have investigated without taking the child away and monitoring the house /family. Again an assumption, Ubut if there were genuine concerns about they safety and welfare of the children, they would not have returned them regardless of the DNA evidence?[/QOTE]

but if they found out for sure before the results came in , why would they not ?

your giving out they took them , and now that they give them back you give out ??

I am not giving out they gave them back. I am saying that I presume there were no other child welfare concerns, i.e. negligence, as the children were returned. Therefore, in the absence of other concerns about the health and well being of the child, they should have been left there while the DNA testing was ongoing.

clairefontaine · 24-10-2013 11:39PM

Its pretty bad that the state can just waltz into your house and take your kids.

Obviously under Irish law this is legit.

Its pretty bad your neighbor can just call in a susppicion and the cops can then run in and take your kids.

This too is legit under Irish law.

Racist or not racist, the whole thing is very bad.

But I suspect there would be alot more inhibition around carrying out this law if the family in question were Irish.

Seriously dont Irish couple adopt from foreign countries? Dont they have kids people from other countries? Do you think seriously theyd be accused of kidnapping and the cops would march in and take their children because the don't "match" like a pair of socks should?

Smiles35 · 24-10-2013 11:40PM

droidus wrote: »

For everyone claiming that the case in Greece somehow justifies what has happened here - guess what? That blue eyed, blonde haired, racially pure child was Roma as well:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/maria-mystery-thats-our-girl-say-bulgarian-family-29697568.html

So you can put down your torches and pitchforks. Evil gypsies are not going around stealing christian children. The aryan race is safe.

Yeah. Now deal with the welfare fraud charges smart-arse ;p

Ace2007 · 24-10-2013 11:41PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

so you are calling the result 10 days before anyone else knows the result ??

can i have the euro millions numbers for the weekend while you are doing the old crystal ball reading

the point of inquiry is to find fault if any , not to automatically assume guilt or wrong doing.

all could be absolved of any wrong doing.

No, but why have 3 investigations, why not just have 1?
why is there an international organisation backing one of the investigations?

Just think how much the families are going to get in compensation - that will come from tax payers money -

dj jarvis · 24-10-2013 11:46PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

No, but why have 3 investigations, why not just have 1?
why is there an international organisation backing one of the investigations?

Just think how much the families are going to get in compensation - that will come from tax payers money -

3 different agencies involved , they all have to do one , you are assuming they are going to be found in the wrong

Sala · 24-10-2013 11:48PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Its pretty bad that the state can just waltz into your house and take your kids.

Obviously under Irish law this is legit.

Its pretty bad your neighbor can just call in a susppicion and the cops can then run in and take your kids.

This too is legit under Irish law.

Racist or not racist, the whole thing is very bad.

But I suspect there would be alot more inhibition around carrying out this law if the family in question were Irish.

Seriously dont Irish couple adopt from foreign countries? Dont they have kids people from other countries? Do you think seriously theyd be accused of kidnapping and the cops would march in and take their children because the don't "match" like a pair of socks should?

It is not legitimate under Irish law. With more facts we will know the ins and out of these particular cases, but under Irish law there must be an immediate and serious risk to the health or welfare of a child. If I called the Gardai and said clairefontaine's children don't look like her, I think she abducted them, and they Gardai took them away, you would have very good case against the State. Obviously we don't know what, if any, other concerns the Gardai had about the child's welfare, but if there were none I would anticipate the families will sue the state. And rightly so in my opinion

droidus · 24-10-2013 11:48PM

Gatling wrote: »

Along with the 8000 others who claim the girl is there's

It's previously been reported that the girl had been traced to some kind of Bulgarian adoption scheme that went awry. Now we have a Roma mother with several blonde haired, blue eyed children whose family claim to have previous contact with the Greek Roma.

Obviously its not definitive, but it seems credible, and of course, makes a mockery of the atavistic frenzy of racism that seems to have been whipped up by the possibility of a 'white' child being abducted by 'gypsies'.

clairefontaine · 24-10-2013 11:49PM

Sala wrote: »

It is not legitimate under Irish law. With more facts we will know the ins and out of these particular cases, but under Irish law there must be an immediate and serious risk to the health or welfare of a child. If I called the Gardai and said clairefontaine's children don't look like her, I think she abducted them, and they Gardai took them away, you would have very good case against the State. Obviously we don't know what, if any, other concerns the Gardai had about the child's welfare, but if there were none I would anticipate the families will sue the state. And rightly so in my opinion

Thanks for clearing that up. I had thought [upon being corrected on assuming it was illegal earlier in the thread] what they did was legal.

strandroad · 24-10-2013 11:52PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up. I had thought [upon being corrected on assuming it was illegal earlier in the thread] what they did was legal.

If there was such a risk, it would apply to the siblings to, and yet there were not deemed to be at risk.

Sala · 24-10-2013 11:57PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up. I had thought [upon being corrected on assuming it was illegal earlier in the thread] what they did was legal.

It is not clear. The Gardai have a power as I said under the Childcare Act to remove a child where there is an immediate and serious risk to the health or welfare of a child. This is a necessary and legitimate power (imagine a child being molested, and they have to wait for an emergency court order!). Whether this power was exercised legitimately in these cases will depend on the facts. I am assuming it was not, as the children were returned straight away, which suggests there was no other immediate danger to them. If they take a case it will be cleared up in court and if not the investigation should clarify the procedure. I think the Gardai probably did act in what they thought were the best interests of the child; on reflection it probably wasn't the best course of action, but at least this should clarify the procedure for future similar situations

darkpagandeath · 24-10-2013 11:58PM

mhge wrote: »

If there was such a risk, it would apply to the siblings to, and yet there were not deemed to be at risk.

That's why i cant get my head around people saying the Gardaí were just doing there job. Does that mean the other children had correct papers birth certs and so on or just looked like the parents. If it was neglect i would assume all the children would be neglected and so on so forth

Sala · 24-10-2013 11:58PM

mhge wrote: »

If there was such a risk, it would apply to the siblings to, and yet there were not deemed to be at risk.

Exactly, I made this point before, and I think any defence that they acted because there was an immediate and serious risk to the child will be undermined by this fact.

clairefontaine · 25-10-2013 12:01AM

Sala wrote: »

It is not clear. The Gardai have a power as I said under the Childcare Act to remove a child where there is an immediate and serious risk to the health or welfare of a child. This is a necessary and legitimate power (imagine a child being molested, and they have to wait for an emergency court order!). Whether this power was exercised legitimately in these cases will depend on the facts. I am assuming it was not, as the children were returned straight away, which suggests there was no other immediate danger to them. If they take a case it will be cleared up in court and if not the investigation should clarify the procedure. I think the Gardai probably did act in what they thought were the best interests of the child; on reflection it probably wasn't the best course of action, but at least this should clarify the procedure for future similar situations

But all this danger is "alleged" or suspected right?

They dont actually have to prove criminality to remove children from their homes?

So some snooty neighbor can make an anonymous accusation and presto the kids are taken?

That is so so so wrong.

All if this is very wrong.

Sala · 25-10-2013 12:02AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That's why i cant get my head around people saying the Gardaí were just doing there job. Does that mean the other children had correct papers birth certs and so on or just looked like the parents. If it was neglect i would assume all the children would be neglected and so on so forth

Or, that they didn't check the "Roma looking" children. We will only know when the investigation has concluded, but if they serious suspected the parents were traffickers not investigating the other children would be extremely negligent.

We don't know the facts, but what we do know is two little kids and their parents suffered a very traumatic ordeal, and maybe there is a better way to deal with these reports in the future

wicklowstevo · 25-10-2013 12:13AM

so many idiots ,,, cant handle it any more

unfollow unfollow unfollow

dj jarvis · 25-10-2013 12:24AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That's why i cant get my head around people saying the Gardaí were just doing there job. Does that mean the other children had correct papers birth certs and so on or just looked like the parents. If it was neglect i would assume all the children would be neglected and so on so forth

.

darkpagandeath · 25-10-2013 12:27AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

.

Just like allot of people assume the Gardaí were acting within the current law and acted appropriately with a proportionate reaction ?

Annasopra · 25-10-2013 06:51AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you assumed they went about their job the wrong way , you have no proof either way , then you posted no one gives a crap , again an assumption , lots of people will care they had the paper work sorted

we also have a thread full of people who disagree with you - that's wtf i am on about

But sure you have no proof that they were going to do a runner!

Annasopra · 25-10-2013 06:55AM

Smell Badda wrote: »

Yeah. Now deal with the welfare fraud charges smart-arse ;p

What?

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1