not allowed to use toilet

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I'd never ever want them to wet themselves at school, and with infants it is slightly different as often they wait until the last minute to go, but further up in the school I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them to wait until I have finished explaining what to do.

I don't really think it's necessary to be going to the toilet 20 minutes after they've arrived in school either, or 10/15 minutes after breaktime. I can't run off to the toilet either and leave my class unattended so I DO know what it feels like to want to go and unable to. I'm not forbidding them to go, and never would, but I would ask that they wait until I'm finished.

Yes it is unreasonable to expect people to hold the call of nature until you have finished. Especially when they are small. Even older kids could be trying to hold on until you've finished but cant.

If a kid needs to go to the toilet they should be let. End of. If you have to repeat yourself then so be it...thats your job. get over it.

It is completely illegal for a teacher to not allow a student go to the toilet, or for that matter anyone not allow anyone else. I have to get a letter from the department of education stating this before my secondary school would listen.

When I was in primary school we didn't have to ask to goto the loo. If we needed to go we went. Why would you force a child to ask?
I didn't goto a nice school either.

Kids are sensible enough. The odd time there would be a bit of messing but the teacher was well able to keep a handle on things.

An Coilean wrote: »

I find it quite hard to believe that their is any law against a teacher requiring a student to wait untill the break to go to the toilet unless there are reasonable circumsances making this impossible as in the student with a bladder infection outlined previously.

There is no law refrencing teachers. Its just about denying someone access to the toilet. Even if you have been arrested for mass murder you have to be allowed to go to the toilet.

As was explained to me before, schools usually have policies which aim to minimise disruption. These policies usually contradict the students rights but there is a sort of loop hole in it in that it would be illegal for anyone to stop you going to to the toilet but if someone tells you that you can't they aren't actually stopping you, if a teacher was to say stand in your way if you tried to go to the toilet the teacher would end up in trouble. Also if you got up and just went there's not much they can do about it.

An Coilean wrote: »

Ya, I am not arguing that students don't have the right to have access to toilet facilities, they do, but that is not the same thing as having the right to go to the toilet when ever you like.

As for a child just deciding to go even if the teacher has told them they can't, no teacher in their right mind would phsicially restrain a child to prevent them from doing so, that would open up a whole world of trouble for the teacher, and somewhat contradict the whole purpose of generally not allowing pupils to go to the toilet during class.
It would however most likely result in diciplinary action being taken against the child in question.

The teacher not allowing you to go when you need to is denying your right to go to the toilet when needed. Everybody in this country has the right to use the toilet at any time for any reason and nobody can stop them. Having gotten legal advice on this before you'd be looking at a 5 figure compensation sum if you were punished for going to the toilet especially as a child because of all the psychological affects it could have.

An Coilean wrote: »

Has a case ever been taken? I dont think that a right to have access to toilet facilities implys a right to use the toilet when ever you want in the absence of some condition that makes that kind of access necessary such as a bladder infection.
A school is required to provide access to toilets, but in my opinion this requirement is satisfied by those facilities being available during breaks and that it does not constitute a breach of the childs rights if access is restricted in general to break times.
It is my personal opinion that it quite unlikely that a court would find against a teacher for refusing permission for a student to go to the toilet during class time in the absence of some other circumstance such as sickness that makes access to the toilet during class time necessary.

I'm not 100% sure but I think several cases have been taken by prisoners and I think some by employees, I'm not aware of any against schools though, but it's the same circumstances. Do you not think if a company could restrict toilet breaks to every 3 hours they would? There's something I think you're missing here is that everyone has the right to go to the toilet whenever they need to, this isn't restricted to any certain times nor can anybody decide when you need to. If courts have ruled against both prison officers and employers, I don't see why they would treat teachers differently.

What would you do if you were working and you needed to go to the toilet but you were just told that you have to wait an hour until your break? The Department of Education supported me on this about three years ago and made the principal talk to all the teachers and warn them not to stop people going to the toilets, but to keep up the whole asking permission thing and keeping a note of it just to discourage people taking advantage.

An Coilean wrote: »

Access to adequate toilet facilities fall under duty of care, I'm sure there have been cases with regards prisions and employment in the past, but I personly don't think that a general restriction of toilet access to breaks constitutes a breach of that duty of care unless there is some additional circumstance such as illness that makes such a restriction unreasonable.

I would say that it is very much an issue of descrition, but in the normal run of things, I would not see anything unreasonable in expecting students to go to the toilet during break times.

The problem here is how you see it and how it is are very different. Everyone in the country has a right to use sanitary facilities at any time, you can't just say that it doesn't apply to kids because they have no voice. Why should we treat fully grown adult employees or prisoners much better than we treat our children?

Please answer my question though, you're absolutely bursting to go to the toilet, and you're told to wait an hour, do you just accept it?

It's a topic that always causes problems. I think most primary schools have classroom toilets so I can't understand someone saying no unless a pattern has developed where a child asks repeatedly over a short space of time. That is a bigger issue and needs intervention.
However at secondary school some kids time it to meet their pals and there have been cases of drug dealing taking place. Teenage toilets are also a typical place for bullying incidents.
In saying that you should use discretion. Most students rarely ask and only ask when they need to go. Teaching is about education and shouldn't be about dictatorship. In general if you respect the kids they give it back ( always a few who chance their arm)

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Most teachers in primary school don't get to use the toilet during class times. Hence we are all conditioned to peeing at 11, 12,30 and 3 p.m. Could we take a legal action so??

Nobody has stopped you, if you needed to go you could just call the teacher from across the hall to watch your class for 2 mins. Legally it is your employers responsibility to facilitate you going, if your employer made you stay in the classroom and did not let you go then yes you are 100% entitled to sue.

I really can't believe some people though, "I can manage not going so that means every 5 year old in the country can".

Sometimes it's not as simple as going between classes-like I always need to pee and if my class arrangement means I can't pass by a toilet then I have to hold it or get a note in my diary to leave the class.Most teachers are grand about that but if we have a strict teacher most people would be inclined to hold it or some people wouldn't go so they have no notes.Its a 2 way street if a teacher leaves our class alone no one would ever deny them acess so why is it fair that I have to wait just because I'm 14 ??

GarIT wrote: »

Can anyone actually come up with any reason supporting this supposed blanket ban on children going to the toilet other than some kids might mess.

It sounds to me like power tripping if I am honest. I found in my primary school days the less able teachers used to have lots of little rules to keep control whereas the better teachers could easily handle the kids in the classes. I can see no other reason for denying children toilet. Like for what reason would you deny someone this?? It doesn't make sense.
It was never an issue when I was at school and as I said I went to a fairly bad school.

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I don't think you understand what it's like in primary school for teachers or pupils then!:P

I'm pretty well aware, I'm only out of school two years and I've a brother still in primary school. It might be difficult for a teacher to manage a class of a load of little kids but you need to come up with another solution rather than denying their basic rights.