not allowed to use toilet

dangerus06

hi i looking for advise here .
my 8 yr old was in school today and asked to use the toilet and was refused by teacher ,
teacher told her she should have gone in break ,she got really upset by this
there is toilets in her classroom .
i was speaking to other parents about this and all the kids in my daughters class are afraid of this teacher seems she screams at kids all the time
she been working in this school for about 20 yrs and by all accounts has been the same all her teaching life
can a teacher refuse to let a child use the toilet?
what do i do here ?
i understand that a teacher needs to control her class but to me this is wrong putting fear into 8 year olds,
i been told that at least 2/3 kids a day cry in the class because there afraid of her and when they cry she calls them a baby .
what do i do i afraid if i talk to her she pick on my child

jma

Basic sanitation is a right, not a privilege. Having said that, it obviously depends on whether the child or teenager is just acting up or if they really do need to go. That's speaking generally. In this case, it sounds like your kid really needed to go, and the teacher shouldn't have refused. There are a large number of ways something like this could be handled by a teacher, but unless the teacher knows with 100% certainty that the child is just acting up, they should not be allowed to refuse bathroom breaks. If it's something that develops into a problem in the class, the teacher will just have to talk to the kid privately or bring it up with the parent(s), but refusing is just wrong.

If you're worried about your child getting picked on, I would bring it up with the Parents Association, if you have one. Together, you could either approach the teacher together, approach the prinicipal, or set up a meeting with both the teacher and the principal.

A teacher of 20 years can be very set in their ways, but if they want to keep teaching, they'll just need to get with the times.

When I was in primary school, there was a teacher that used to cut pupil's hair and fingernails, amongst some other inappropriate or questionable things for a teacher to do! Luckily, I didn't have the misfortune of having this teacher, but I know one person that did, and the whole experience of his year (could have even been 2) stayed with him for life, and it had a big effect on his teen years.

Point is that I would nip this in the bud, whichever way you want to handle it, but don't sit on it. My 2-cents worth.

dangerus06

When I was in primary school, there was a teacher that used to cut pupil's hair and fingernails, amongst some other inappropriate or questionable things for a teacher to do! Luckily, I didn't have the misfortune of having this teacher, but I know one person that did, and the whole experience of his year (could have even been 2) stayed with him for life, and it had a big effect on his teen years.

omg thats insane and weird any idea what happened to this teacher ?

ifeelill

This would sometimes happen in Irish class, a student would need to go to the toilet but couldn't remember how to say it in Irish. So he just said "**** it" and pissed his pants.

He even got to go home early, the lucky prick!

jma

dangerus06 wrote: »

omg thats insane and weird any idea what happened to this teacher ?

I don't know, to be honest. I only found out about it years later. But I don't think anything major happened. She came in just after I had moved up a classroom. She wasn't even that old either. Both teachers I had in my first 2 classrooms were very nice elderly teachers, both women. Just after I moved up to 2nd class, the first teacher retired, and was replaced with this head-case. The 3 classes below me, including junior and senior infants, were a lot less fortunate than me.

Big Bag of Chips

I don't really think this should have anything to do with the Parent's Association. The procedure in most schools is,

- if you have a problem with a teacher you go to the teacher to discuss it.
- if you are not satisfied with the teacher's response, you then make a complaint to the principal.
- if the issue is not resolved to your satisfaction you then make a complaint to the Board of Management.
- if still nothing happens you complain to the Dept of Education.

In many schools, definitely any school I've known, the Parents' Association role is primarily to fund raise... And maybe discuss general goings on in the school. Not anything specific.

When you speak to the teacher you should not mention anything else you've heard about her. At the moment it is hearsay. You only discuss the problem relating to YOUR child. It's up to other parents to discuss their own children.

You could approach a few other parents, if you know they also are having trouble and you could go together. But I think the first step should be you going in yourself to find out what is going on in the class.

jma

Parents' associations are not set up to raise funds. They are set up to promote the interests of students attending the school, which might often include fund-raising. Here's the relevant part from the Education Act, 1998:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0051/sec0026.html#sec26

If the teacher is causing problems for a number of kids in the class, I don't see any reason why it can't be brought up at a PA meeting. Together, you could decide on a course of action, or you could decide that each parent will handle it individually. It depends on the other parents and what you feel comfortable with. Regardless, I think it would be a good idea to at least bring it up. Maybe there are other parents who are afraid to speak up for the same reasons, and are hoping that the situation will settle itself.

byhookorbycrook

There is an agreed procedure with the NPC and teachers. It is not the role of the PA to intervene in this. Any concerned parents should follow the procedure outlined by Big Bag of Chips.

Sometimes, if a teacher is teaching a concept s/he may ask a child to wait for a minute before going to the loo. You need to find out the exact circumstances where the child was refused.

Kaeilighrooke

In a teenager and this used to happen to my quite alot when i asked for a tp(toilet permission) and my teacher has said no. at this time i had a bladder infection and i was needing to use the bathroom on a regular basis i just stood up and told my her that i really needed to go and that i have a infection. She allowed me to then but i just dont understand why they dont let you go and i hate the way that i had to explain mysef as to why i needed to go. Its just insane like if you need to go you should just go and they must think that we just want to get out of class but thats not the case at all i was very annoyed when i was denied to go to the toilet as i usually can hold it out until Lunch but in this case i couldnt take it. Im also a teenager that studies hard and i dont mess in school so i dont understand why the teachers want you to be afraid of them I just hate it!! x

purplecow1977

With 30+ in a classroom, it can be quite irritating if 6/7 of them decide they want to go when you're in the middle of something. I don't let anyone go if I'm explaining anything or for 30 minutes after breaktime/coming in from home. Some of them ask to go to get out of doing work/being asked a question. At breaktime in yard, upwards of 2nd class are not permitted to leave the yard to use the toilet. Reason? Too many kids to take account of and at that age, it is expected that they either go before they come out or wait the 20/25 minutes until they go back in. If it was urgent, I would let them go.

dangerus06

i get that its annoying when loads of kids want the toilet ,but there kids and there bladder is a lot smaller than ours ,its unhealty to have to hold it for children it can cause problems with kidney infections ,if a child has more than 3 infections in a short space of time they are now meant to be send to hospital to get checked for reflux ,i also understand that kids want to get out of class i done it myself when i was going to school but again what if you refuse the one child that has a problem ? ,the teacher that i have a problem with admitted to not allowing my child the toilet and said sorry ,the principal of the school was not impressed ,so we see what happens ,'but try to remember when your teaching and you need the loo and your not allowed how you feel

ifeelill

The message im getting here is that its hard work to administrate the kids so teachers would rather let them pi*s there pants than work harder. Notice i said harder.

purplecow1977

ifeelill wrote: »

The message im getting here is that its hard work to administrate the kids so teachers would rather let them pi*s there pants than work harder. Notice i said harder.

I disagree.
In a class of 33, if 2 are in the toilet when I'm explaining what to do, they miss the instructions. Then they come out and don't have a clue what to do, which means I have to explain again. May not seem like much hassle to you but if this happens 3/4 times a day, every day, that's almost 20 times a week I have to repeat myself, and that's without having to do it when they're actually in their seats but have just tuned out!

I'd never ever want them to wet themselves at school, and with infants it is slightly different as often they wait until the last minute to go, but further up in the school I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them to wait until I have finished explaining what to do.

I don't really think it's necessary to be going to the toilet 20 minutes after they've arrived in school either, or 10/15 minutes after breaktime. I can't run off to the toilet either and leave my class unattended so I DO know what it feels like to want to go and unable to. I'm not forbidding them to go, and never would, but I would ask that they wait until I'm finished.

byhookorbycrook

ifeelill wrote: »

The message im getting here is that its hard work to administrate the kids so teachers would rather let them pi*s there pants than work harder. Notice i said harder.

Two toilets, 30 kids. They can't all go the second they want to.

GillD

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Two toilets, 30 kids. They can't all go the second they want to.

I'm a resource teacher. I have children from a particular class crying in my room because their class teacher shouts in their face, won't let them go to the toilet, shouts at them for not understanding something. The usual approach of a parent first approaching a teacher won't work here for cultural/language reasons. I believe these children. I've seen this teacher shouting. What do I do?

An Coilean

Kaeilighrooke wrote: »

In a teenager and this used to happen to my quite alot when i asked for a tp(toilet permission) and my teacher has said no. at this time i had a bladder infection and i was needing to use the bathroom on a regular basis i just stood up and told my her that i really needed to go and that i have a infection. She allowed me to then but i just dont understand why they dont let you go and i hate the way that i had to explain mysef as to why i needed to go. Its just insane like if you need to go you should just go and they must think that we just want to get out of class but thats not the case at all i was very annoyed when i was denied to go to the toilet as i usually can hold it out until Lunch but in this case i couldnt take it. Im also a teenager that studies hard and i dont mess in school so i dont understand why the teachers want you to be afraid of them I just hate it!! x

Generally it is assumed that a teenager has the sense to go to the toilet during the break and be capable of holding it until the next break.
Asking to go to the toilet is often used by messers to try to get out of class, and it also often happens that if one person asks and is allowed to go, the messers in the class will then ask, which puts the teacher in the position of allowing them to go, or be accused of favoritism, which is most easily avoided by just not allowing anyone to go to the toilet in general.

I assume that the teacher was unaware of your infection and as such its not all that surprising that you were refused, I would suggest that the teacher was not trying to make you afraid of them, or shame you in any way, but rather just trying to avoid potential trouble and disruption to their class.
A quite word with the teacher before class would have avoided the whole thing.

afkasurfjunkie

GillD wrote: »

I'm a resource teacher. I have children from a particular class crying in my room because their class teacher shouts in their face, won't let them go to the toilet, shouts at them for not understanding something. The usual approach of a parent first approaching a teacher won't work here for cultural/language reasons. I believe these children. I've seen this teacher shouting. What do I do?

have a chat with your colleague. not in an accusatory way, perhaps mention how one of the pupils came to you and needed to use the toilet badly? had he/she not asked in class?.. do they have to ask in irish perhaps and find this difficult?
if this fails speak with your principal.

byhookorbycrook

GillD wrote: »

I'm a resource teacher. I have children from a particular class crying in my room because their class teacher shouts in their face, won't let them go to the toilet, shouts at them for not understanding something. The usual approach of a parent first approaching a teacher won't work here for cultural/language reasons. I believe these children. I've seen this teacher shouting. What do I do?

First of all ,talk to the teacher, then if this is of no avail, to the principal.

GillD

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

have a chat with your colleague. not in an accusatory way, perhaps mention how one of the pupils came to you and needed to use the toilet badly? had he/she not asked in class?.. do they have to ask in irish perhaps and find this difficult?
if this fails speak with your principal.

It appears to run deeper than toilet breaks and it's not just the children coming to me that it's an issue for. For instance, the teacher shouted at a child who was crying because of a recent bereavement and told her to "grow up". Another child who has difficulty with maths is shouted at if she doesn't understand. I believe what the children are telling me. One was genuinely in tears today because she didn't want to go back to class. She hadn't done anything wrong but was in fear of being shouted at.

GillD

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

First of all ,talk to the teacher, then if this is of no avail, to the principal.

I've thought about this but I can't find a suitable approach/way of bringing it up.

dangerus06

GillD wrote: »

It appears to run deeper than toilet breaks and it's not just the children coming to me that it's an issue for. For instance, the teacher shouted at a child who was crying because of a recent bereavement and told her to "grow up". Another child who has difficulty with maths is shouted at if she doesn't understand. I believe what the children are telling me. One was genuinely in tears today because she didn't want to go back to class. She hadn't done anything wrong but was in fear of being shouted at.

this is the problem with schools the teachers believe they can get away with anything ,they cant be sacked to many loopholes ,there way to many teachers out there that believe this ,the problem you have is the princple will allways take the side of the teacher and if you bring it to there attention you might be got rid of ,if it was a child been abused by a parent you could ring social services there must be some type of service you can ring ,that will check the teacher out, this is abuse and they really should not get away with it best of luck

ian87

dangerus06 wrote: »

this is the problem with schools the teachers believe they can get away with anything ,they cant be sacked to many loopholes ,there way to many teachers out there that believe this ,the problem you have is the princple will allways take the side of the teacher and if you bring it to there attention you might be got rid of ,if it was a child been abused by a parent you could ring social services there must be some type of service you can ring ,that will check the teacher out, this is abuse and they really should not get away with it best of luck

Any evidence to back up your misinformed post? Department guidelines state that a complaints procedure must follow set steps.

1. Speak to teacher.

2. If not happy after step 1, speak to principal.

3. If step 2 doesn't resolve the issue, issue complaint to board of management. They overrule the principal.

4. If your complaint still is not resolved you can make a complaint to the department of education.

dangerus06

just giving my opinion ,its good that there procedure to follow i now no what i need to do which was why i posted in the first place .

Joe10000

I used to have bladder problems at that age and one day when the teacher refused to let me go the inevitable happened. I got away with it in terms of classmates but it was horrible.

I went home and told my parents and the next day my dad phoned the teacher and spoke to her. Later that same day she came up to me and apologised and said in future I could just leave whenever I needed to go.

Sometimes the obvious and most simple approach is also the best.

I had forgotten all about until I saw this post !!!! Mwahhhhhh

ian87

@ op. Are there significant discipline issues in the class? I had a parent approach me last year saying their child was scared of me. When I spoke to the parent, the issue was the child saw me having to deal with significant discipline issues elsewhere in the classroom and thought they would be on the recieving end of same. It made me rethink my approach to how I dealt with things. As it turned out the child was under immense pressure to perform at school from home which didn't help on my side but a word with the teacher may suffice. There are bad apples in the system but from personal experience the issue doesn't solely stem from one area.

dangerus06

that good some parents need to stop blaming teachers for there own problems at home ,in an earlier post i said that i had spoken to teacher and sorted it out for my daughter ,and would see how its goes all good so far

GillD

dangerus06 wrote: »

this is the problem with schools the teachers believe they can get away with anything ,they cant be sacked to many loopholes ,there way to many teachers out there that believe this ,the problem you have is the princple will allways take the side of the teacher and if you bring it to there attention you might be got rid of ,if it was a child been abused by a parent you could ring social services there must be some type of service you can ring ,that will check the teacher out, this is abuse and they really should not get away with it best of luck

My opinion (and I don't have concrete evidence of this) is that there may be a lot of personal stress on the part of the teacher. I'm not using this as an excuse. I'm just trying to understand the situation over the next few days before I decide on a course of action.

GillD

ian87 wrote: »

@ op. Are there significant discipline issues in the class? I had a parent approach me last year saying their child was scared of me. When I spoke to the parent, the issue was the child saw me having to deal with significant discipline issues elsewhere in the classroom and thought they would be on the recieving end of same. It made me rethink my approach to how I dealt with things. As it turned out the child was under immense pressure to perform at school from home which didn't help on my side but a word with the teacher may suffice. There are bad apples in the system but from personal experience the issue doesn't solely stem from one area.

Thanks for sharing that. No, there are no significant discipline issues in the class, to my knowledge. The shouting appears to be directed at everyone. I don't believe that this teacher is a bad apple but of course my experience of her is in the staffroom and not the classroom. The children decided (from themselves) that they would keep a record of what happens in the classroom before a parent approaches her. There is a genuine fear among them.

ian87

GillD wrote: »

Thanks for sharing that. No, there are no significant discipline issues in the class, to my knowledge. The shouting appears to be directed at everyone. I don't believe that this teacher is a bad apple but of course my experience of her is in the staffroom and not the classroom. The children decided (from themselves) that they would keep a record of what happens in the classroom before a parent approaches her. There is a genuine fear among them.

The children keeping a record themselves. How will your principal react to this? If they are like mine, not impressed I'd imagine. Would you not have a quiet word on the condition of anonymity with principal? Just relay back what the children are telling you but don't appropriate blame. At the end the day, it's up to the children's parents to make complaints not the teachers. You could find yourself in hot water. That's my 2c anyway.

Big Bag of Chips

ian87 wrote: »

it's up to the children's parents to make complaints...

That's a fair point. If the kids are telling you, they've probably, (at least some of them) told their parents. If they haven't told their parents, then you should encourage them to do so. Although you say they are keeping a record themselves before a parent approaches her... It sounds like a parent advised their child to keep a record, and now a few others have decided to do the same.

I can see why it would put you in an awkward position to approach the teacher.. but then again, it depends on how comfortable you are with them.

The fact that you are asking here, would make me believe, you're NOT comfortable enough to approach her about it.... So maybe instead you could tell the principal what the kids have told you?

pooch90

Just from a different point of view, if I were the teacher in question and found out a colleague knew my pupils were essentially keeping a dossier on me, I'd be livid!

I'm in no way saying the behaviour of the teacher is right but a bit of professionalism is called for here and you should go and talk to her or the principal ASAP.

daheff

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I'd never ever want them to wet themselves at school, and with infants it is slightly different as often they wait until the last minute to go, but further up in the school I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them to wait until I have finished explaining what to do.

I don't really think it's necessary to be going to the toilet 20 minutes after they've arrived in school either, or 10/15 minutes after breaktime. I can't run off to the toilet either and leave my class unattended so I DO know what it feels like to want to go and unable to. I'm not forbidding them to go, and never would, but I would ask that they wait until I'm finished.

Yes it is unreasonable to expect people to hold the call of nature until you have finished. Especially when they are small. Even older kids could be trying to hold on until you've finished but cant.

If a kid needs to go to the toilet they should be let. End of. If you have to repeat yourself then so be it...thats your job. get over it.

Jimmy Iovine

daheff wrote: »

Yes it is unreasonable to expect people to hold the call of nature until you have finished. Especially when they are small. Even older kids could be trying to hold on until you've finished but cant.

If a kid needs to go to the toilet they should be let. End of. If you have to repeat yourself then so be it...thats your job. get over it.

Ha ha.

GarIT

It is completely illegal for a teacher to not allow a student go to the toilet, or for that matter anyone not allow anyone else. I have to get a letter from the department of education stating this before my secondary school would listen.

An Coilean

GarIT wrote: »

It is completely illegal for a teacher to not allow a student go to the toilet, or for that matter anyone not allow anyone else. I have to get a letter from the department of education stating this before my secondary school would listen.

I find it quite hard to believe that their is any law against a teacher requiring a student to wait untill the break to go to the toilet unless there are reasonable circumsances making this impossible as in the student with a bladder infection outlined previously.

Pawwed Rig

When I was in primary school we didn't have to ask to goto the loo. If we needed to go we went. Why would you force a child to ask?
I didn't goto a nice school either.

An Coilean

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

When I was in primary school we didn't have to ask to goto the loo. If we needed to go we went. Why would you force a child to ask?
I didn't goto a nice school either.

So as not to have your class potentially disrupted every few minutes with people comming and going to the toilet.

Pawwed Rig

Kids are sensible enough. The odd time there would be a bit of messing but the teacher was well able to keep a handle on things.

Jimmy Iovine

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Kids are sensible enough.

They really aren't. Give them the freedom to wander to the toilet whenever they want and they will take full advantage.

No work will ever be completed and the lessons will be shambolic.

GarIT

An Coilean wrote: »

I find it quite hard to believe that their is any law against a teacher requiring a student to wait untill the break to go to the toilet unless there are reasonable circumsances making this impossible as in the student with a bladder infection outlined previously.

There is no law refrencing teachers. Its just about denying someone access to the toilet. Even if you have been arrested for mass murder you have to be allowed to go to the toilet.

As was explained to me before, schools usually have policies which aim to minimise disruption. These policies usually contradict the students rights but there is a sort of loop hole in it in that it would be illegal for anyone to stop you going to to the toilet but if someone tells you that you can't they aren't actually stopping you, if a teacher was to say stand in your way if you tried to go to the toilet the teacher would end up in trouble. Also if you got up and just went there's not much they can do about it.

Pawwed Rig

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

They really aren't. Give them the freedom to wander to the toilet whenever they want and they will take full advantage.

You really underestimate kids. Give most kids a bit of responsibility and they thrive. Treat them like idiots and that is how they will act.
Why not have a 'rule' that they can goto the toilet whenever they like but it has to be during work time rather than explaining time. If I remember rightly primary school is very regimented so it is easy to know how long they will have to wait. Explaining will only be for a few minutes anyway.

If a particular child needs to go all the time then a word with their parents should be in order.

An Coilean

GarIT wrote: »

There is no law refrencing teachers. Its just about denying someone access to the toilet. Even if you have been arrested for mass murder you have to be allowed to go to the toilet.

As was explained to me before, schools usually have policies which aim to minimise disruption. These policies usually contradict the students rights but there is a sort of loop hole in it in that it would be illegal for anyone to stop you going to to the toilet but if someone tells you that you can't they aren't actually stopping you, if a teacher was to say stand in your way if you tried to go to the toilet the teacher would end up in trouble. Also if you got up and just went there's not much they can do about it.

Ya, I am not arguing that students don't have the right to have access to toilet facilities, they do, but that is not the same thing as having the right to go to the toilet when ever you like.

As for a child just deciding to go even if the teacher has told them they can't, no teacher in their right mind would phsicially restrain a child to prevent them from doing so, that would open up a whole world of trouble for the teacher, and somewhat contradict the whole purpose of generally not allowing pupils to go to the toilet during class.
It would however most likely result in diciplinary action being taken against the child in question.

An Coilean

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You really underestimate kids. Give most kids a bit of responsibility and they thrive. Treat them like idiots and that is how they will act.
Why not have a 'rule' that they can goto the toilet whenever they like but it has to be during work time rather than explaining time. If I remember rightly primary school is very regimented so it is easy to know how long they will have to wait. Explaining will only be for a few minutes anyway.

If a particular child needs to go all the time then a word with their parents should be in order.

In the case of primary schools kids, as far as I am aware the issue is generally treated with a degree of flexibility, when you get to second/third class in secondary school it is more likely to be assumed that you can look after yourself a bit more and go during the breaks.

GarIT

An Coilean wrote: »

Ya, I am not arguing that students don't have the right to have access to toilet facilities, they do, but that is not the same thing as having the right to go to the toilet when ever you like.

As for a child just deciding to go even if the teacher has told them they can't, no teacher in their right mind would phsicially restrain a child to prevent them from doing so, that would open up a whole world of trouble for the teacher, and somewhat contradict the whole purpose of generally not allowing pupils to go to the toilet during class.
It would however most likely result in diciplinary action being taken against the child in question.

The teacher not allowing you to go when you need to is denying your right to go to the toilet when needed. Everybody in this country has the right to use the toilet at any time for any reason and nobody can stop them. Having gotten legal advice on this before you'd be looking at a 5 figure compensation sum if you were punished for going to the toilet especially as a child because of all the psychological affects it could have.

An Coilean

GarIT wrote: »

The teacher not allowing you to go when you need to is denying your right to go to the toilet when needed. Everybody in this country has the right to use the toilet at any time for any reason and nobody can stop them. Having gotten legal advice on this before you'd be looking at a 5 figure compensation sum if you were punished for going to the toilet especially as a child because of all the psychological affects it could have.

Has a case ever been taken? I dont think that a right to have access to toilet facilities implys a right to use the toilet when ever you want in the absence of some condition that makes that kind of access necessary such as a bladder infection.
A school is required to provide access to toilets, but in my opinion this requirement is satisfied by those facilities being available during breaks and that it does not constitute a breach of the childs rights if access is restricted in general to break times.
It is my personal opinion that it quite unlikely that a court would find against a teacher for refusing permission for a student to go to the toilet during class time in the absence of some other circumstance such as sickness that makes access to the toilet during class time necessary.

GarIT

An Coilean wrote: »

Has a case ever been taken? I dont think that a right to have access to toilet facilities implys a right to use the toilet when ever you want in the absence of some condition that makes that kind of access necessary such as a bladder infection.
A school is required to provide access to toilets, but in my opinion this requirement is satisfied by those facilities being available during breaks and that it does not constitute a breach of the childs rights if access is restricted in general to break times.
It is my personal opinion that it quite unlikely that a court would find against a teacher for refusing permission for a student to go to the toilet during class time in the absence of some other circumstance such as sickness that makes access to the toilet during class time necessary.

I'm not 100% sure but I think several cases have been taken by prisoners and I think some by employees, I'm not aware of any against schools though, but it's the same circumstances. Do you not think if a company could restrict toilet breaks to every 3 hours they would? There's something I think you're missing here is that everyone has the right to go to the toilet whenever they need to, this isn't restricted to any certain times nor can anybody decide when you need to. If courts have ruled against both prison officers and employers, I don't see why they would treat teachers differently.

What would you do if you were working and you needed to go to the toilet but you were just told that you have to wait an hour until your break? The Department of Education supported me on this about three years ago and made the principal talk to all the teachers and warn them not to stop people going to the toilets, but to keep up the whole asking permission thing and keeping a note of it just to discourage people taking advantage.

An Coilean

GarIT wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure but I think several cases have been taken by prisoners and I think some by employees, I'm not aware of any against schools though, but it's the same circumstances. Do you not think if a company could restrict toilet breaks to every 3 hours they would? There's something I think you're missing here is that everyone has the right to go to the toilet whenever they need to, this isn't restricted to any certain times nor can anybody decide when you need to. If courts have ruled against both prison officers and employers, I don't see why they would treat teachers differently.

What would you do if you were working and you needed to go to the toilet but you were just told that you have to wait an hour until your break? The Department of Education supported me on this about three years ago and made the principal talk to all the teachers and warn them not to stop people going to the toilets, but to keep up the whole asking permission thing and keeping a note of it just to discourage people taking advantage.

Access to adequate toilet facilities fall under duty of care, I'm sure there have been cases with regards prisions and employment in the past, but I personly don't think that a general restriction of toilet access to breaks constitutes a breach of that duty of care unless there is some additional circumstance such as illness that makes such a restriction unreasonable.

I would say that it is very much an issue of descrition, but in the normal run of things, I would not see anything unreasonable in expecting students to go to the toilet during break times.

GarIT

An Coilean wrote: »

Access to adequate toilet facilities fall under duty of care, I'm sure there have been cases with regards prisions and employment in the past, but I personly don't think that a general restriction of toilet access to breaks constitutes a breach of that duty of care unless there is some additional circumstance such as illness that makes such a restriction unreasonable.

I would say that it is very much an issue of descrition, but in the normal run of things, I would not see anything unreasonable in expecting students to go to the toilet during break times.

The problem here is how you see it and how it is are very different. Everyone in the country has a right to use sanitary facilities at any time, you can't just say that it doesn't apply to kids because they have no voice. Why should we treat fully grown adult employees or prisoners much better than we treat our children?

Please answer my question though, you're absolutely bursting to go to the toilet, and you're told to wait an hour, do you just accept it?

littleblackDRS

So they can have toilets, we just can't use them when they need to? Because everyone under 18 only goes to the toilet to waste time? Why do you think that only adults should have the right to go to the toilet when they need to? Would you be able to only go to the toilet every 2 hours? You seem to think that just because you don't agree that kids shouldn't be allowed to use the toilet when they need to (which is a basic human right) that that makes it so.

fall

It's a topic that always causes problems. I think most primary schools have classroom toilets so I can't understand someone saying no unless a pattern has developed where a child asks repeatedly over a short space of time. That is a bigger issue and needs intervention.
However at secondary school some kids time it to meet their pals and there have been cases of drug dealing taking place. Teenage toilets are also a typical place for bullying incidents.
In saying that you should use discretion. Most students rarely ask and only ask when they need to go. Teaching is about education and shouldn't be about dictatorship. In general if you respect the kids they give it back ( always a few who chance their arm)

An Coilean

GarIT wrote: »

The problem here is how you see it and how it is are very different. Everyone in the country has a right to use sanitary facilities at any time, you can't just say that it doesn't apply to kids because they have no voice.

Please answer my question though, you're absolutely bursting to go to the toilet, and you're told to wait an hour, do you just accept it?

I would disagree, you have a right to reasonable access to sanatary facilities, that is not the same as having the right to use them whenever you like.

As for your question, I suppose I would have to ask, why are you absolutely bursting to go? The breaks are not that far appart that you can't manage to organise yourself to not be in that situation, if for some reason I was, I would most likely just go between classes and accept the mild chastisment for being late for my next class.