Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

Soft Falling Rain · 24-10-2013 07:54AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

In Greece there is a white blonde kid who has been abducted by gypsies who came up with multiple fake stories that they were her parents. Stories that were plainly lies and absurdities.

A person or persons in Tallaght saw the story and became suspicious that the very same was happening where they live - a gypsy family with a suspiciously blonde haired kid - and told the Gardaí.

The Gardaí investigated - they have to investigate all allegations that child may be in danger especially if the child may be held against his/her will - and the evidence that gypsies gave them that they were the parents of the child was found wanting.

In those circumstances they would have no option but to take the child into care - rescue the child from people could potential be kidnappers.

They performed a DNA test, they found out the kid was actually their kid and gave the kid back.

End of.

Now what the f*ck is the problem?

They had reasonable grounds to investigate, reasonable grounds to intervene and now it is all square and time to move on.

Easy for you to say all square and move on, not so easy for people who have been falsely accused of such traumatic things.

petrolcan · 24-10-2013 08:37AM

EmptyTree wrote: »

What exactly were they supposed to view when they were told the records didn't exsist?? (using the information they provided to the hospital at the time)

Go and physically check.

Not exactly rocket science.

petrolcan · 24-10-2013 08:38AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

normally its worked on the assumption that the person at the end of the phone in the hospital records office knows their job, understands what is being asked of them , and can do this task that they are paid for

so they should second guess every phone call they make , and send a guy round , just to make sure , come on???

In a case like this, yes.

drquirky · 24-10-2013 08:44AM

This country needs to seriously examine the racism (both institutional and personal) that exists within it. This thread is a great example of the denial that goes on. I would hate to have different coloured skin in Ireland as I imagine it would be incredibly difficult.

petrolcan · 24-10-2013 08:47AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

but the HSE were involved , so its not just on the word of the cops , they must also had a fear , as did the judge that must have been involved to grant the order

they all must have seen something to warrant this action

They saw what happened in Greece and didn't want to be seen to do nothing.

desertcircus · 24-10-2013 09:11AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

What has this got to do with the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4?

This thread is about a Gardaí investigation into a potential child abduction.

The DNA test proves the child was the child of the gypsy family so the Gardaí returned the child to her family and dropped the case.

End of.

Time to move on.

A child was falsely imprisoned and separated from her family, and her parents were put under suspicion of being child traffickers, because she didn't look enough like a gypsy. I'm not exaggerating: this is one of the most shameful episodes in modern Irish history. The State traumatised a small child and terrorised a family because of the child's appearance. I hope they sue the absolute s**t out of everyone responsible, whoever made the decision is fired, and the law is strengthened to ensure this never happens again.

24-10-2013 09:22AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

In Greece there is a white blonde kid who has been abducted by gypsies who came up with multiple fake stories that they were her parents. Stories that were plainly lies and absurdities.

A person or persons in Tallaght saw the story and became suspicious that the very same was happening where they live - a gypsy family with a suspiciously blonde haired kid - and told the Gardaí.

The Gardaí investigated - they have to investigate all allegations that child may be in danger especially if the child may be held against his/her will - and the evidence that gypsies gave them that they were the parents of the child was found wanting.

In those circumstances they would have no option but to take the child into care - rescue the child from people could potential be kidnappers.

They performed a DNA test, they found out the kid was actually their kid and gave the kid back.

End of.

Now what the f*ck is the problem?

They had reasonable grounds to investigate, reasonable grounds to intervene and now it is all square and time to move on.

Are you serious? Reasonable grounds to investigate? Because some aul one saw a story on the news about a kid in a country hundreds of miles away and assumed the worst?

I love how so many Irish people think it's fine to do this stuff when it involves brown people. You would be kicking and screaming if anyone tried to do anything like this to you.

This 'X group did this, so we'll profile all of X group' is racism. Remember that thread about how Irish people were being discriminated against in Oz for jobs because they have a reputation for being drunken knackers and unreliable? Everyone was up in arms about that - 'how dare they put us all in the same box?' etc. Yet when it happens to someone dark skinned, it's grand.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 24-10-2013 09:29AM

Do the people defending the action taken (which I'm not saying is right or wrong) not think its a little bit suspicious that two Roma families were investigated within two days of each other? That's a pretty big coincidence considering there are so few Roma families here.

Overdahill · 24-10-2013 09:29AM

Overdahill wrote: »

So what i think you are saying is : if the Gardai arrived at your house, expressed concern that one of your kids was not actually yours, made a perfunctory call to the hospital where you claimed the child was born, told you the hosp did not back up your story, rejected your proof...birth cert, passport etc as false...you would be happy for them to take your child from your home into Hse care until a DNA test proved that the child was indeed yours? Just checking

Dj Jarvis ? Was hoping you would reply so I can better understand your position on this

Padraig Mor · 24-10-2013 09:38AM

desertcircus wrote: »

A child was falsely imprisoned and separated from her family, and her parents were put under suspicion of being child traffickers, because she didn't look enough like a gypsy. I'm not exaggerating.

You are exaggerating. In fact what you've said is entirely factually incorrect.

1. The child was not imprisoned.
2. The child was not removed because "she didn't look enough like a gypsy". She was removed because the Gardai were not satisfied as to her identity, in part because of incorrect / inaccurate information supplied by the parents.

Tony EH · 24-10-2013 09:43AM

The sheer level of old maidish gloating going on in this thread is hilarious.

:pac:

desertcircus · 24-10-2013 09:46AM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You are exaggerating. In fact what you've said is entirely factually incorrect.

1. The child was not imprisoned.
2. The child was not removed because "she didn't look enough like a gypsy". She was removed because the Gardai were not satisfied as to her identity, in part because of incorrect / inaccurate information supplied by the parents.

The child was removed from her family in contravention of the law and because she looked different to her parents. No effort was made to ascertain the parentage of the other children in the house, and there was no reasonable basis for believing that there was an immediate risk to the health and safety of the child. I'm genuinely appalled by people's reactions. The police illegally took a child from her family despite the production of a birth cert and a passport because she was blond and they weren't. How the hell is that not an unmitigated travesty?

OldNotWIse · 24-10-2013 09:53AM

desertcircus wrote: »

The child was removed from her family in contravention of the law and because she looked different to her parents. No effort was made to ascertain the parentage of the other children in the house, and there was no reasonable basis for believing that there was an immediate risk to the health and safety of the child. I'm genuinely appalled by people's reactions. The police illegally took a child from her family despite the production of a birth cert and a passport because she was blond and they weren't. How the hell is that not an unmitigated travesty?

I agree with you 100%. I dont know why people are not more incensed. If it were a caucasian couple who had their child removed from their custody because he/she was a different colour there would be war. How are they to know the child was not adopted, or possibly fathered by someone else? People complain about "nanny state" when it comes to data protection or smoking bans etc and yet when a child is wrongly taken from her parents its not a big deal..

constance tench · 24-10-2013 09:58AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I agree with you 100%. I dont know why people are not more incensed. If it were a caucasian couple who had their child removed from their custody because he/she was a different colour there would be war. How are they to know the child was not adopted, or possibly fathered by someone else? People complain about "nanny state" when it comes to data protection or smoking bans etc and yet when a child is wrongly taken from her parents its not a big deal..

...And isn't it incredible how the word of a bunch of social science graduates is sacrosanct!

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 09:59AM

petrolcan wrote: »

Police remain with family whilst birth records are checked.

And if the child is harmed by the suspected abductors in the presence of the Gardaí you would be giving out that the Gardaí didn't do enough.

You're not fooling me and anyone else with that crap.

CSI Tallaght?

You come off it! The Gardaí had a reasonable suspicion that the child might have been abducted. Blonde kid with gypsy parents. They had to assume the worst. So cut the sh*t.

Indeed you are!

Bullsh*t.

This whole thing is manufactured and is being driven by a political agenda.

The Pavee Point organisation is a front for the extreme left and subversive republicans and organized crime.

There are left wing activists funded by shadowy people behind the scenes with deep pockets who have an anti-state and anti-Garda agenda.

I bet there are a lots of lawyers and cranks and left wing activists who are seeing euro signs.

Padraig Mor · 24-10-2013 10:03AM

desertcircus wrote: »

The child was removed from her family in contravention of the law and because she looked different to her parents. No effort was made to ascertain the parentage of the other children in the house, and there was no reasonable basis for believing that there was an immediate risk to the health and safety of the child. I'm genuinely appalled by people's reactions. The police illegally took a child from her family despite the production of a birth cert and a passport because she was blond and they weren't. How the hell is that not an unmitigated travesty?

In your, incorrect, opinion. I imagine the Gardai and HSE know rather more about this law than you (or I).

1. The Gardai apparently contacted experts before visiting the family who told them that it was extremely unlikely that two Roma would have a blond haired, blue eyed child.
2. Again, she was not removed because "she looked different to her parents", but because the parents could not satisfy the Gardai of her identity, in part because the parents did not supply correct information.

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 10:05AM

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Easy for you to say all square and move on, not so easy for people who have been falsely accused of such traumatic things.

Would you prefer if Gardaí did not intervene when they suspected kids were in danger?

Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

There's a witch hunt on the go as we speak driven by anti-State and anti-Garda agenda.

It's transparently obvious that this whole thing is a fix.

Who are going to be the scapegoats? Only the Gardaí who did their jobs of course.

F*cking typical.

humanji · 24-10-2013 10:07AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Would you prefer if Gardaí did not intervene when they suspected kids were in danger?

Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

There's a witch hunt on the go as we speak driven by anti-State and anti-Garda agenda.

It's transparently obvious that this whole thing is a fix.

Who are going to be the scapegoats? Only the Gardaí who did their jobs of course.

F*cking typical.

So it's gone from a monumental cock up by the HSE to a conspiracy to discredit the gardaí?

OldNotWIse · 24-10-2013 10:10AM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

In your, incorrect, opinion. I imagine the Gardai and HSE know rather more about this law than you (or I).

1. The Gardai apparently contacted experts before visiting the family who told them that it was extremely unlikely that two Roma would have a blond haired, blue eyed child.
2. Again, she was not removed because "she looked different to her parents", but because the parents could not satisfy the Gardai of her identity, in part because the parents did not supply correct information.

How many caucasian couples would have gardai turning up at their homes demanding to see a birth certificate for one of their children?

old hippy · 24-10-2013 10:12AM

drquirky wrote: »

This country needs to seriously examine the racism (both institutional and personal) that exists within it. This thread is a great example of the denial that goes on. I would hate to have different coloured skin in Ireland as I imagine it would be incredibly difficult.

The right wing element must be absolutely fuming with the latest developments. Those who like to dismiss racism in Ireland frankly haven't a leg to stand on.

I hope the Gardai involved are prosectuted.

drumswan · 24-10-2013 10:12AM

Can wait till they start setting up checkpoints in Avoca to verify the identity of chinese babies with the yummie mummies

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 10:12AM

humanji wrote: »

So it's gone from a monumental cock up by the HSE to a conspiracy to discredit the gardaí?

Anyone with a functional brain cell would know that what the Gardaí did was to protect the child because they had reasonable suspicions that there was a child abduction.

So cut the crap please.

Pompey Magnus · 24-10-2013 10:13AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Would you prefer if Gardaí did not intervene when they suspected kids were in danger?

Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Why are you not outraged that the Gardai left the remaining children in the care of parents they supposedly suspected of being capable of harming a child?
Surely you should be up in arms that those innocent kids were left in the care of two people who were potential monsters?

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 24-10-2013 10:13AM

following on from above did the father in Athlone not provide perfectly legitimate evidence that the child was his, and yet the child was still taken?

humanji · 24-10-2013 10:14AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Anyone with a functional brain cell would know that what the Gardaí did was to protect the child because they had reasonable suspicions that there was a child abduction.

So cut the crap please.

Well firstly, as a mod I've to tell you to start posting with civility or face a ban, and secondly, I think the gardaí simply did what they had to do in the situation, and it's the HSE who cocked up by giving them false information. But that still doesn't mean it's a conspiracy, as you claimed.

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 10:15AM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Why are you not outraged that the Gardai left the remaining children in the care of parents they supposedly suspected of being capable of harming a child?
Surely you should be up in arms that those innocent kids were left in the care of two people who were potential monsters?

The other kids were clearly Roma. The white blonde kid with blue eyes raised immediate suspicions of a child abduction.

Have been paying attention to the case of child abduction in Greece?

You think the Gardaí can afford to take chances?

But you know this already. You are only banging an anti-Garda and anti-state drum.

old hippy · 24-10-2013 10:15AM

Tony EH wrote: »

The sheer level of old maidish gloating going on in this thread is hilarious.

:pac:

Yeah, institutionalised racism is such a gas :mad:

drumswan · 24-10-2013 10:16AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The other kids were clearly Roma. The white blonde kid with blue eyes raised immediate suspicions of a child abduction.

So its OK to leave kids with child abductors because they are only Roma kids?

Balaclava1991 · 24-10-2013 10:18AM

drumswan wrote: »

So its OK to leave kids with child abductors because they are only Roma kids?

Well they WERE Roma kids weren't they?

It was the kid they couldn't verify was a Roma that they took away didn't they?

So what's the problem?

The kid who may not have been Roma was clearly in more danger than the Roma kids surely?

deandean · 24-10-2013 10:18AM

There've been no photos of the Dublin family but there is a photo of the Athlone family in this article:

Now I am no healthcare professional but looking at that photo, apart from the hair colour I say the boy is the image of his dad. Anyone else see this? Did the Gardai / HSE notice the similarity?

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

Comments

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1