Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

Technoprisoner · 19-10-2013 12:14AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

No statutorily they can stop any cars.

That is common law powers discussed.

reasonably suspect

reasonable cause. expression sometimes used in a statute where a garda or an authorised officer is empowered to stop a vehicle or enter any land or premises, if necessary by force, where that person has "reasonable cause" to suspect that an offence has been committed eg animal remedies act 1993, s11. a "hunch" is not sufficent ;some basis for the suspicion must be shown. the test is an objective one ie whether a reasonable man, would believe that there was a reasonable cause dallison v caffery [1965] 1 qb 38.

hansfrei · 19-10-2013 12:15AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

so do i but there are way cheaper more effective ways than just setting up checkpoints. Suspect fraud cut of welfare let them come in and prove there not defrauding the state.

Bit like asking pensioners to fill in a form to claim a medical card. No need for a ploice checkpoint

dxhound2005 · 19-10-2013 12:15AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

so do i but there are way cheaper more effective ways than just setting up checkpoints. Suspect fraud cut of welfare let them come in and prove there not defrauding the state.

This system has been in use since 1999 so maybe it is effective. What is your cheaper system? I can't understand your last sentence sorry.

darkpagandeath · 19-10-2013 12:17AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

What rights? Whent the 2014 act is promulgated what rights will stop the gardai busting welfare fraud at the road block?

by that logic they can make t.v illegal by passing a law. They in government represent the people they do not control the people

dxhound2005 · 19-10-2013 12:18AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

by that logic they can make t.v illegal by passing a law. They in government represent the people they do not control the people

And every citizen is subject to the law in place for the time being.

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:20AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

by that logic they can make t.v illegal by passing a law. They in government represent the people they do not control the people

Hello anybody home?

If the oireachtas made TV or coffee or playboy or divorce or condoms illegal then they'd be illegal.

Wtf is wrong with you?

darkpagandeath · 19-10-2013 12:22AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And every citizen is subject to the law in place for the time being.

Untill what 1 day later when there are mass riots and the government is overthrown

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:23AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Untill what 1 day later when there are mass riots and the government is overthrown

Hypothetically.

That's not going to happen in 2014 or 2015 or 2016 though is it?

darkpagandeath · 19-10-2013 12:24AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

Hello anybody home?

If the oireachtas made TV or coffee or playboy or divorce or condoms illegal then they'd be illegal.

Wtf is wrong with you?

Pretty sure they cant we have something called human rights in Europe

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:26AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Pretty sure they cant we have something called human rights in Europe

Your Irish modern history is poor.

Playboy was illegal here until mid nineties.

Condoms likewise.

Divorce likewise.

Coffee and TV were never illegal but one was rationed and the other restricted by licensed.

Is coffee a human right?

Technoprisoner · 19-10-2013 12:27AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

Hello anybody home?

If the oireachtas made TV or coffee or playboy or divorce or condoms illegal then they'd be illegal.

Wtf is wrong with you?

they made fraud illeagl a long time ago...however they have not made refusing to answer a guards question illegal

darkpagandeath · 19-10-2013 12:28AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

Playboy was illegal here until mid nineties.

Condoms likewise.

Divorce likewise.

Coffee and TV were never illegal.

Is coffee a human right?

By that logic is anything ? you really want to live in some kind of post Russia communist collapse were the government tells you what to do ?

And you could still have got porn off the internet

oh and we don't live in the 90s anymore thank fook

dxhound2005 · 19-10-2013 12:32AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

By that logic is anything ? you really want to live in some kind of post Russia communist collapse were the government tells you what to do ?

And you could still have got porn off the internet

But if this little story hadn't appeared in the papers you wouldn't even have known about Multi Agency Vehicle Checkpoints. Because you probably never saw one even though they have been around for many years. And are a common crime fighting device used in many democratic countries without causing a collapse into dictatorship.

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:32AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

By that logic is anything ? you really want to live in some kind of post Russia communist collapse were the government tells you what to do ?

And you could still have got porn off the internet

When playboy was banned it was easier to get a copy of it than internet porn! What year did you first go online? I had a modem since about 1990 and there was no internet service at the time. It was all bbs#s.

Are you old enough to have facial hair yet? Seriously?

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:36AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

By that logic is anything ? you really want to live in some kind of post Russia communist collapse were the government tells you what to do ?

And you could still have got porn off the internet

oh and we don't live in the 90s anymore thank fook

I think your obviously pubescent outlook kind of taunts your understanding of this whole issue. You obviously don't really know about how this state is governed or the separation of powers in the Irish system.

Do they still teach civics for the junior cert?

darkpagandeath · 19-10-2013 12:37AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But if this little story hadn't appeared in the papers you wouldn't even have known about Multi Agency Vehicle Checkpoints. Because you probably never saw one even though they have been around for many years. And are a common crime fighting device used in many democratic countries without causing a collapse into dictatorship.

Yeah i wised i lived in one as the bankers who brought the country down would be in Jail by now. Not moving country or evading justice (directors and so on i mean not joe soap)

B.A._Baracus · 19-10-2013 12:37AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

Anyway I for one think that it's great. Hate social welfare cheats.

Grand. But how will they know who is on the welfare, working or a welfare cheat? Think about this logically mate.

They are going to have to stop everyone leaving an estate. Establish and cross check their details, ask for destination and if verified currently on the Social Welfare - check vehicles to see if there are any signs that a person is working illegally.

So you are cool with this?
You are cool with the Garda stopping random people (working or not, because how would they know) and asking the who, what & why.

So it doesnt matter if its:

- A mother bringing her kids to school.
- A person working legally paying his or her way.
- A college student.
- A retired person
- A person on the dole, but isn't a scammer
- I could go on...

Technoprisoner · 19-10-2013 12:37AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

I think your obviously pubescent outlook kind of taunts your understanding of this whole issue. You obviously don't really know about how this state is governed or the separation of powers in the Irish system.

well its better than making up laws that do not exist and then pretend to yourself that this is all above board.

darkpagandeath · 19-10-2013 12:41AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

When playboy was banned it was easier to get a copy of it than internet porn! What year did you first go online? I had a modem since about 1990 and there was no internet service at the time. It was all bbs#s.

Are you old enough to have facial hair yet? Seriously?

ezra_pound wrote: »

I think your obviously pubescent outlook kind of taunts your understanding of this whole issue. You obviously don't really know about how this state is governed or the separation of powers in the Irish system.

Do they still teach civics for the junior cert?

Attack the post not the poster please and I'm probably older than you not that has any relevance to this . The internet came to Ireland in what 96 you said mid 90s playboy was still band.

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:41AM

Technoprisoner wrote: »

well its better than making up laws that do not exist and then pretend to yourself that this is all above board.

But it will be above board when the law is passed. I've obviously been around a bit longer than you and seen the introduction of random breath testing legislation for instance.

That's typically what happens.

There will be a sw act early in new year. There ALWAYS is. You can be sure that this will be included in it.

Cody Pomeray · 19-10-2013 12:43AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

There will be a sw act early in new year. There ALWAYS is. You can be sure that this will be included in it.

why would it be?

sharing information between the Gardaí the Department of Social Protection, and Garda powers to stop cars without specific suspicion is already law.

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:44AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster please and I'm probably older than you not that has any relevance to this . The internet came to Ireland in what 96 you said mid 90s playboy was still band.

Sorry but you walked into it...

Playboy condoms etc.

Lol

darkpagandeath · 19-10-2013 12:44AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

Sorry but you walked into it...

Playboy condoms etc.

Lol

Has to do with Ireland 2013 ?

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:48AM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

why would it be?

sharing information between the Gardaí the Department of Social Protection, and Garda powers to stop cars without specific suspicion is already law.

Specific statutory powers and procedure for garda questioning re welfare fraud.

Aotearoa · 19-10-2013 12:48AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

Specific statutory powers and procedure for garda questioning re welfare fraud.

agreed

Technoprisoner · 19-10-2013 12:51AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

But it will be above board when the law is passed. I've obviously been around a bit longer than you and seen the introduction of random breath testing legislation for instance.

That's typically what happens.

There will be a sw act early in new year. There ALWAYS is. You can be sure that this will be included in it.

what law? it has not been introduced so you can not quote a non existent law. i have been around long enough to see the introduction of random breath testing. and as i said earlier there is law in place to allow this. but currently there is no law that allows the garda or anyone else to randomly stop you and ask you to give up private information such as your pps number or if you are employed. and anything i have read about this has not mentioned new laws to be introduced that would give them the power to do this...so everything you have said is so far make believe.... they may well introduce powers to do this but currently there is no law there to provide such powers. This is exactly why i voted to keep the seanad. so any powers the government try introduce can be debated and discussed before the law is sent back to the dail for any amendments. If they do try and introduce such laws i would imagine there would be a constitutional challenge in the courts

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 12:54AM

Technoprisoner wrote: »

what law? it has not been introduced so you can not quote a non existent law. i have been around long enough to see the introduction of random breath testing. and as i said earlier there is law in place to allow this. but currently there is no law that allows the garda or anyone else to randomly stop you and ask you to give up private information such as your pps number or if you are employed. and anything i have read about this has not mentioned new laws to be introduced that would give them the power to do this...so everything you have said is so far make believe.... they may well introduce powers to do this but currently there is no law there to provide such powers. This is exactly why i voted to keep the seanad. so any powers the government try introduce can be debated and discussed before the law is sent back to the dail for any amendments. If they do try and introduce such laws i would imagine there would be a constitutional challenge in the courts

THE FUTURE

NOT NOW BUT SHORTLY IN THE FUTURE.

Technoprisoner · 19-10-2013 12:59AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

THE FUTURE

NOT NOW BUT SHORTLY IN THE FUTURE.

so you are speculating...and you were speculating that a guard would have the power of arrest if you refused to give up your pps number?

Sh1tbag OToole · 19-10-2013 12:59AM

So I am not allowed to fix my friend's computer at 6am, if I'm traveling by van and I'm on the dole and my friend lives in a housing estate?

How many attributes do i need to change before the guard will give me the nod? If I buy a brand new BMW 535d out of my reserves and use that instead of the trusty van? What if I land up in the evening instead and have a nice dole-funded lie-in for myself instead?

I need to know which friends I can still help out with their computer woes when this new police state thing comes in and to which I need to say "yer on yer own, bud" when the infamous "have you tried rebooting" fails. I presume friends living in townhouses, flats, country houses and caravans will remain unaffected

ezra_pound · 19-10-2013 01:01AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

THE FUTURE

NOT NOW BUT SHORTLY IN THE FUTURE.

The seanad will pass o it and the dail will pass it and it will be law. Just sit back and enjoy the wait.

Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

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