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Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats
Comments
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dxhound2005 wrote: »Why do people keep saying it is not going to work as if it is something brand new just starting up. It has been going for many years and has been working.
Yes social welfare inspectors have been catching fraudulent claims however I have never heard of people being checked at a check point in relation to welfare fraud.
Another point is the Gardai do not have access to PPS numbers ( which I find incredible in this day and age ). It would mean that a social welfare inspector would have to present at the checkpoint to catch anyone. Again more waste of resources. I would also imagine that industrial estates would not be the place to target as many of these workers will be PAYE and be working for companies that pay tax.
IMO much of the social welfare fraud is happening with single mothers claiming to be single when in fact they are not. Many people claiming the dole will be doing nixers NOT driving into industrial estates.
There are more efficient ways of dealing with welfare fraud. Cases need to be built in order to prove someone is committing the offence. A check point on a road is not what I would consider building up a case - it gives no proof - how does it prove anything? As for living in a different country, this could be easily solved. I have heard of some one living in Brazil and still getting benefits
People should have to sign on weekly and use a passport as ID along with social services card. This is not always the case in post offices collecting money either, as in not being asked for ID.
Tip-offs, social networks and good old fashion observation is probably the only way that a case can be built up. This IMO is the only way to catch these people, the same way as insurance claims are investigated.
Again, welfare fraud is a drop in the ocean as far as I am concerned but still needs to be tackled.
Ie- rent allowance completely slashed over 30 hours a week. No incentive for a low income family to work pay full rent and childcare out of a low income wage. Financially they are better off not working. This is not how it should be. If these poverty traps were tackled logically more tax would be paid by workers hence having a positive effect on the country in the long term.
I still believe most people WANT to work and there are traps preventing them from doing so. For others that simply don't want to work, they should be giving community jobs for a set number of hours a week or benefits should be cut0 -
Yes social welfare inspectors have been catching fraudulent claims however I have never heard of people being checked at a check point in relation to welfare fraud.
Another point is the Gardai do not have access to PPS numbers ( which I find incredible in this day and age ). It would mean that a social welfare inspector would have to present at the checkpoint to catch anyone. Again more waste of resources. I would also imagine that industrial estates would not be the place to target as many of these workers will be PAYE and be working for companies that pay tax.
IMO much of the social welfare fraud is happening with single mothers claiming to be single when in fact they are not. Many people claiming the dole will be doing nixers NOT driving into industrial estates.
There are more efficient ways of dealing with welfare fraud. Cases need to be built in order to prove someone is committing the offence. A check point on a road is not what I would consider building up a case - it gives no proof - how does it prove anything? As for living in a different country, this could be easily solved. I have heard of some one living in Brazil and still getting benefits People should have to sign on weekly and use a passport as ID along with social services card. This is not always the case in post offices collecting money either, as in not being asked for ID.
Tip-offs, social networks and good old fashion observation is probably the only way that a case can be built up. This IMO is the only way to catch these people, the same way as insurance claims are investigated.
Again, welfare fraud is a drop in the ocean as far as I am concerned but still needs to be tackled.
Ie- rent allowance completely slashed over 30 hours a week. No incentive for a low income family to work pay full rent and childcare out of a low income wage. Financially they are better off not working. This is not how it should be. If these poverty traps were tackled logically more tax would be paid by workers hence having a positive effect on the country in the long term.
I still believe most people WANT to work and there are traps preventing them from doing so. For others that simply don't want to work, they should be giving community jobs for a set number of hours a week or benefits should be cut
thats why they brought out the social card with your pic on it0 -
JustAThought wrote: »Usual waste - why don't they run easy clear campaigns on who to ring/ write to to report " sole" parent & dole cheat fraud - people would be happy to tell on the cheats.
Everyone knows what's going on, rather than waste the gaurds time set up a phone line & then investigate them & bring them in every day for " interviews" if needs be - that will soon make them unavailable for work.
As usual , the waste in the Irish system is shocking. Couldn't organise a l1ss up in a brewery. Garda checkpoints ... Why don't they get the immigration at the airport to check & the DSW /whatever they've called it now to do some checking .
If you Make it Easy for people to report SW cheats by their car reg or addresses & by having on the spot ID checks in work for PPS numbers like they do in Holland & Germany you would take a big bite out of the problem.
As usual, even in a crisis, a politician can't even organise the most clear & effective solution.
The gaurds should be arresting criminals, clearing junkies & aggressive beggars from the streets & protecting " us" . Of course the elephant in the room is the impossible to comprehend car ownership by those whose culture is to refuse to work ; bets that won't be tackled in this - as usual.
I would also like a system where those who commit up each other & their families are rewarded, rather than those who cheat the system being given 100% rent & free houses. Why not reward commitment & family stability.
I would also like to see FAS and the visa allocation people actually correlate their records - why are we importing pastry chefs & waitresses & giving them visas to work when young Irish schoolleavers & stutdents can't find work : there shouldn't be 100+ PPS numbers issued per day from FAS on Parmell Street when there are 400,000 on the dole.
I agree with all your points with the exception of the last two.
The government need to encourage people out of this poverty trap. For example rent allowance is completely cut off once you work over 30 hours a week. If you are on a low income it would make more sense to retain some of the supplement but this is not the case- massive reason why people won't work full time ( IF there was an option for them to)
We also need to bear in mind that there are 400,000 people on the dole however there is a portion of these people who do work part time and claim 2 days benefit. Again, the issue with childcare comes into play here as an incentive to stay part time as opposing to work full time. Dole is claimed for the two days you are not in work and two days less in childcare. Again it pays for people to work less 0 -
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JustAThought wrote: »Usual waste - why don't they run easy clear campaigns on who to ring/ write to to report " sole" parent & dole cheat fraud - people would be happy to tell on the cheats.
They do
Telephone: 1890 927 999
Online report: https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspxJustAThought wrote: »Everyone knows what's going on, rather than waste the gaurds time set up a phone line & then investigate them & bring them in every day for " interviews" if needs be - that will soon make them unavailable for work.
No that would be harrassment.JustAThought wrote: »As usual , the waste in the Irish system is shocking. Couldn't organise a l1ss up in a brewery. Garda checkpoints ... Why don't they get the immigration at the airport to check & the DSW /whatever they've called it now to do some checking .
They do.JustAThought wrote: »If you Make it Easy for people to report SW cheats by their car reg or addresses & by having on the spot ID checks in work for PPS numbers like they do in Holland & Germany you would take a big bite out of the problem.
So in stead of inconveniencing a couple of people at a checkpoint for a couple of minutes they should storm a factory or whatever and close it for half a day? You realise they are trying to get people who are working off the books right?JustAThought wrote: »As usual, even in a crisis, a politician can't even organise the most clear & effective solution.
The gaurds should be arresting criminals, clearing junkies & aggressive beggars from the streets & protecting " us" . Of course the elephant in the room is the impossible to comprehend car ownership by those whose culture is to refuse to work ; bets that won't be tackled in this - as usual.
I would also like a system where those who commit up each other & their families are rewarded, rather than those who cheat the system being given 100% rent & free houses. Why not reward commitment & family stability.
You kind of went off on one thereJustAThought wrote: »I would also like to see FAS and the visa allocation people actually correlate their records - why are we importing pastry chefs & waitresses & giving them visas to work when young Irish schoolleavers & stutdents can't find work : there shouldn't be 100+ PPS numbers issued per day from FAS on Parmell Street when there are 400,000 on the dole.
Somewhere in Australia there is a guy named Bruce saying the same thing about Irish people going over there to work.0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Will the checkpoints target farmers in rural areas, in the Taoiseachs constituency say? or will they just target urban and suburban areas?
Yes . They will check to see if enda is working. Rumours have it that he's not
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