The Hazards of Belief

Sulla Felix · 12-10-2013 09:58PM

But... but there are Jews, actual practising Jews, who don't perform it? It's clearly not necessary to at least some of those of the faith.

Nodin · 12-10-2013 10:54PM

Seeing as Jews aren't the only ones who perform it, and in fact would probably be in the minority as regards those affected in a lot of countries, she hasn't a leg to stand on.

They can always have it done like Nelson Mandelas tribe. It'll be a good test of commitment.

Banbh · 13-10-2013 06:44AM

They can always have it done like Nelson Mandelas tribe.

What's that?

kylith · 13-10-2013 10:47AM

Banbh wrote: »

What's that?

I'd imagine it's having it done in adulthood. It certainly would be a much better symbol of an individual's contract with their god if they decided to get it done as an adult rather than having it done to them in infancy.

Sulla Felix · 13-10-2013 11:01AM

Banbh wrote: »

What's that?

They do it some time in their teens afaik. Oh, and it's done with an assegai, kind of broad leaf short stabbing spear. Slap the penis up on something, an elder pulls on the foreskin and with one blow, removes it. :eek: Bastard'd want to have good aim...
Nothing to do with religion though, it's a manhood ritual. Literally under tribal law, makes you a man. Someone who hasn't had it done can't inherit etc etc. Remeber reading Mandela's account of his own in a biography.

iguana · 13-10-2013 01:12PM

How twisted by religion would you have to be to hope that bad things happen to your atheist daughter and grandchildren so they will find their way back to Jesus?

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a45120928/my_family_assures_one_another_bad_things_will_happen_to_me_so_i_will_believe_in_god.._wtf?cpg=1&csi=2433226935&pd=1

Nodin · 13-10-2013 05:09PM

Sulla Felix wrote: »

They do it some time in their teens afaik. Oh, and it's done with an assegai, kind of broad leaf short stabbing spear. Slap the penis up on something, an elder pulls on the foreskin and with one blow, removes it. :eek: Bastard'd want to have good aim...
Nothing to do with religion though, it's a manhood ritual. Literally under tribal law, makes you a man. Someone who hasn't had it done can't inherit etc etc. Remeber reading Mandela's account of his own in a biography.

...yep, ye have to stand there and take it like a man. A man who doesn't let a roar out of him though....

bnt · 13-10-2013 05:23PM

On Saturday, Tropical Cyclone Phailin struck India with winds exceeding 200km/h in parts and torrential rains over a wide area. The situation is still developing at this time, but the latest death toll is 14. This is thanks to plenty of advance warning (science!) and a massive evacuation campaign, to avoid a repeat of a similar tropical cyclone of 1999 when the death toll was over 10,000.

On Saturday, in another part of India, at least 89 people were killed in a stampede at a Hindu temple. Pilgrims were crowded on to a bridge, someone said "the bridge might collapse", people panicked, and many were crushed. Mostly women and children, it seems. Oh, and it's not the first time that has happened at that particular temple.

If ever there was an illustration of the hazards of religion ... a religious event causes more deaths than a natural disaster :mad:

donspeekinglesh · 14-10-2013 08:18AM

Another Year of Blasphemy - round up of a year's worth of blasphemy prosecutions.

Banbh · 14-10-2013 08:50AM

I didn't read through all those crimes against humanity and common-sense but will keep it for future reference, thanks.

I wonder if the silencing of Boards.ie (not the A+A section) following a complaint of blasphemy will be in the next compilation.

robindch · 14-10-2013 09:09AM

The Arabic word for "god" is "allah", but in Malaysia, only islamics can use the word to refer to their god, since letting other people use it could "cause confusion in the community".

God, as always, was silent on the topic:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24516181

BBC wrote:

A Malaysian court has ruled that non-Muslims cannot use the word Allah to refer to God, overturning a 2009 lower court ruling. The appeals court said that allowing non-Muslims to use the word would "cause confusion in the community". Christians argue that they have used the word in Malay for decades and that the ruling violates their rights.

The 2009 ruling sparked religious tensions and led to churches and mosques being attacked. It came after the government said that a Catholic newspaper, The Herald, could not use the word in its Malay-language edition to describe the Christian God. The newspaper sued, and a court ruled in their favour in December 2009. The government then launched an appeal.

Chief Judge Mohamed Apandi Ali said on Monday: "The usage of the word Allah is not an integral part of the faith in Christianity." "The usage of the word will cause confusion in the community," he added.

The Herald editor Reverend Lawrence Andrew said he was "disappointed and dismayed", and would appeal against the decision. "It is a retrograde step in the development of law in relation to the fundamental liberty of religious minorities," he said. The newspaper's supporters have argued that Malay-language Bibles have used Allah to refer to the Christian God since before Malaysia was formed as a federal state in 1963.

"Allah is a term in the Middle East and in Indonesia it is a term both for Christians and Muslims. You cannot say that in all of the sudden it is not an integral part. Malay language is a language that has many borrowed words, Allah also is a borrowed word." However, some Muslim groups have said that the Christian use of the word Allah could be used to encourage Muslims to convert to Christianity.

"Allah is not a Malay word. If they [non-Muslims] say they want to use a Malay word they should use Tuhan instead of Allah," Zainul Rijal Abu Bakar, a lawyer representing the government, told the BBC. Dozens of churches and a few Muslim prayer halls were attacked and burned in the wake of the 2009 ruling, highlighting the intensity of feeling about issues of ethnicity and faith in Malaysia.

The case has baffled Muslim scholars outside the country, where the use of the word Allah by Christians is not controversial, the BBC's Jennifer Pak reports from outside the court in Putrajaya. Some Malaysians believe the governing Malay-Muslim party is using the case to boost its Islamic credentials among voters, our correspondent adds.

Malay Muslims make up almost two-thirds of the country's population, but there are large Hindu and Christian communities. Prime Minister Najib Razak's coalition won elections in May, but it was the coalition's worst result in more than half a century in power.

biko · 16-10-2013 12:34AM

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/flu-vaccine-scheme-halted-over-fears-of-muslim-parents.22328399

SCOTLAND'S largest ever immunisation programme has been halted after Muslim parents were not told the vaccine contained pork gelatine.
The roll-out of the flu vaccine nasal spray pilot scheme in Glasgow had been due to begin at city primary school on Wednesday, days after its launch by First Minister Alex Salmond.

But after parents at Glendale Primary in Pollokshields - which has a large number of Muslim pupils who cannot consume or use pig products for religious reasons - became aware of the ingredients, complaints were made and the scheme was put on hold.

In England, the Fluenz vaccine attracted criticism just a fortnight ago for the same reason, sparking accusations of insensitivity to Muslims, Jews and vegetarians, and concerns over the lack of information to parents.

When in Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.
When in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.

https://www.facebook.com/national.vaccine.information.center/posts/10151908560557931
Read the comments
My own favourite

Jeany and Sam, I bet you don't open your evil mouths when your soldiers are mass murdering and maiming innocent Muslims and destroying and occupying their countries, also lets not forget the vaccination programs all eminated from white supremacist nations and were forced on Muslim and other nations.

White supremacy is a disease and you're both pretty sick. It also blinds you to the facts, and btw your two comments make me vomit, please take your pathetic bigotted, hateful, ignorant, ungrateful comments and shove them where the sun don't shine. You should be thanking the Muslim parents! This vaccination was halted because as it said a small group of Muslim parents became very vocal and the authorities had no choice as this is a religious objection, same with jews.

It's obvious you two fascists would never use the same words against jews, but you feel you have free ticket to crap on Muslims. It's a pity no Christian stands up and objects on religious grounds to dead baby feotus being injected into their kids there.

How about you use those words to damn parents in the US who object to vaccines on religious grounds " god forbid anyone upset a Christian", no you wouldn't because you're a pair hateful bigots. And, yes, it's news because people in the UK are sheep, they run to their doc and wait in line to get their kids injected with poisons even though vaccines are not mandatory.

Nodin · 16-10-2013 04:32AM

biko wrote: »

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/flu-vaccine-scheme-halted-over-fears-of-muslim-parents.22328399

When in Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.
When in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.
...............

Don't forget the Jews and the Vegans who object.

Also - from your own article -
"He added: "In view of the 2001 agreement between the World Health Organisation and the Muslim scholars that pork gelatine was permissible within a vaccine there was no specific reference to this ingredient in the initial national communication that was produced for parents."

...perhaps being upfront would have been the wiser strategy.

Banbh · 16-10-2013 07:10AM

I don't accept that Islam is merely a religion, nor that this groups' anti-scientific nonsense must be adopted in a the country in which they are a tiny minority. Also, the concept of 'Muslim countries' and 'non-Muslim countries' flies in the face of centuries of enlightenment, democracy and individual freedom.

robindch · 16-10-2013 09:05AM

biko wrote: »

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/flu-vaccine-scheme-halted-over-fears-of-muslim-parents.22328399

Herald Scotland wrote:

In England, the Fluenz vaccine attracted criticism just a fortnight ago for the same reason, sparking accusations of insensitivity to Muslims, Jews and vegetarians, and concerns over the lack of information to parents.

Well, it's a balancing act that's hard to achieve -- inform people of the realities of vaccines and disease and have a vocal, clueless minority scream persecution, nanny-state, paranoia and get the scheme stopped. Or, just ignore the issue and get accused of "insensitivity", have the same lot going bananas anyway and get it stopped.

Personally, I think people with this attitude towards vaccines should deny themselves all the other other conveniences of modern life and go live in a cave where at least they can expire untidily in a fully "natural" environment.

/grunt

Mark Hamill · 16-10-2013 02:13PM

I am a vegetarian and, tbh, it would irritate and anger me no end if I had taken a vaccine and later learned it contained gelatine. There are enough vegetarian gelling agents that I cant imagine a non animal alternative couldn't be used instead.

However, I don't agree with stopping the immunisation programme.

FouxDaFaFa · 16-10-2013 03:20PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I am a vegetarian and, tbh, it would irritate and anger me no end if I had taken a vaccine and later learned it contained gelatine. There are enough vegetarian gelling agents that I cant imagine a non animal alternative couldn't be used instead.

However, I don't agree with stopping the immunisation programme.

Yeah, I'm a vegetarian too.

Would this stop me getting an important vaccination? No.

Would I rather it was vegetarian? Of course.

I suppose it comes down to how the pork and vegetarian gelling agents compare in terms of efficiency, shelf-life and cost. However the vaccine gets distributed safely to the most people is fine by me.

Turtwig · 16-10-2013 04:06PM

Not told? Aren't there people with food allergens that can't take vaccines. Normally every bit of info regarding what's in the vaccines and all possible side effects, no matter, how remote are listed. If they expected doctors/nurses/pharmacists to list each and everyone one of these things then I hate to say it but it's bad parenting.

If the information wasn't available then it's pretty shambolic but I really find that incredibly hard to believe as they authorities and vaccine providers could be sued to sh*t (unless Scotland is very very different.). This strikes me as those kind of situations where parents complain about content in a video game or something published on the internet. Lazy parenting. Not saying they're bad parents overall, just this was one area where they let their parental responsibilities and wish to blame others for their ignorance.

biko · 16-10-2013 04:36PM

From a rabbi on the matter:

It should be noted that according to Jewish laws, there is no problem with porcine or other animal derived ingredients in non-oral products. This includes vaccines, including those administered via the nose, injections, suppositories, creams and ointments.

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317140022303

Apparently most Muslims should be ok with it too since gelatine can be considered "transformed" and therefore not "bad" any more.

These rulings are accepted widely by Jews and Muslims in many parts of the world, including in the U.S. where a vaccine the same as Fluenz has been used successfully for over ten years.

Public Health England (PHE) has consulted the Muslim Council of Great Britain, and acknowledges the diversity in thought within the British Muslim community. We understand, therefore, that some individuals may still consider the porcine gelatine product to be forbidden.
In this circumstance, these individuals would still be able to accept some pharmaceutical products containing gelatine but only if there was no suitable alternative and if the product was considered life-saving.

Banbh · 16-10-2013 06:21PM

How about the solution the Catholic zealots apply to non-religious parents seeking education for their children? Build your own schools!
Or in this case: Build your own pharmaceutical corporations!

16-10-2013 10:10PM

Banbh wrote: »

How about the solution the Catholic zealots apply to non-religious parents seeking education for their children? Build your own schools!
Or in this case: Build your own pharmaceutical corporations!

Didn't work out well for Saddam or Assad.

Sarky · 16-10-2013 11:09PM

Now I'm no chemist or pharmacist, but I'm not sure one really needs sarin gas to manufacture vaccines...

Turtwig · 16-10-2013 11:11PM

Sarky wrote: »

Now I'm no chemist or pharmacist, but I'm not sure one really needs sarin gas to manufacture vaccines...

Typical Western Propaganda.

robindch · 17-10-2013 12:29PM

Well, here's an interesting new theory -- militant atheists are using chemtrails to murder angels.

http://web.archive.org/web/20130821112549/http://usahitman.com/mauctpa/

Some Guy wrote:

As secret atheist scientists in government pursue their goals of undermining Jesus in America, it only stands to reason that they would take their battle to the skies. The aerial dogfight is likely a vicious one. Who knows what advances they have made since the days of DDT and Agent Orange. Yet fight on they do, every single day! Our heavens are coated in a thick aerosol haze of spiritual hate and this nation’s faith is sinking. etc, etc, etc, etc

Sarky · 17-10-2013 12:41PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59XhhFIhK70

Brian Shanahan · 17-10-2013 01:10PM

Sarky wrote: »

Now I'm no chemist or pharmacist, but I'm not sure one really needs sarin gas to manufacture vaccines...

Well, the most efficient way to kill a virus is by killing the possible carriers. Therefore Sarin.

Please note I'm not advocating killing anyone just being sarcastic.

recedite · 17-10-2013 02:54PM

a Rabbi wrote:

It should be noted that according to Jewish laws, there is no problem with porcine or other animal derived ingredients in non-oral products. This includes vaccines, including those administered via the nose, injections, suppositories, creams and ointments.

Well that's the funniest piece of religious hypocrisy I've heard in a long time.
Can't eat bacon, but sausage suppositories are just fine

What about the hunger strike in Guantanamo, where the inmates were kept alive with nasal tube nutrition. If only the prisoners had known they could order guilt-free bacon and eggs, or "transformed" halal rashers they would have loved it.

Genghiz Cohen · 17-10-2013 03:01PM

recedite wrote: »

Well that's the funniest piece of religious hypocrisy I've heard in a long time.
Can't eat bacon, but sausage suppositories are just fine
What about the hunger strike in Guantanamo, where the inmates were kept alive with nasal tube nutrition. If only the prisoners had known they could order guilt-free bacon and eggs, or "transformed" halal rashers they would have loved it.

Heh

SebBerkovich · 17-10-2013 03:58PM

logical that the atheist’s next step would be to attempt the widespread murder of Jesus’s very Heavenly Agents of Love.

i think that could be the greatest misrepresentation of the term 'logical' in the history of the worlds existence.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-10-2013 10:49PM

robindch wrote: »

Well, here's an interesting new theory

http://web.archive.org....

The web archive.. sounds like the go-to place for new happening stuff :cool:

The Hazards of Belief

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