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Doctors going on strike hurting patients?

24

Comments

  • #32
    KDII
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭KDII


    People need to get behind the doctors. I'm working as a nurse in a hospital so I see it on a daily basis. Seriously don't know they can put in the hours, I know there's no way I could.

    It really hit home to me a few weeks ago. There was talks of strikes in the paper etc so I suppose I was more aware of the hours and that. I'm working on a day ward at the minute. Patients come in early morning, go to theatre and all going well go home that evening. One of the interns who had been on call was admitting a patient for theatre and had about 5 more to do just on our ward. This was at least her 25th hour in work and wasn't getting home til after 5 that evening. They do a physical exam, history taking, go through the risks etc of the surgery and then sign the consent form. They're also responsible for making sure patient is well enough, has all test results etc.

    The patient she was admitting had ironically also worked all night and had shown up for surgery. A lot of the nurses thought it seemed a bit irresponsible but it happens-people can't get time off work etc. We tucked her up in a bed so she could get a few hours sleep before going to theatre- lots of sympathy and tlc as she was tired and drained etc. Then we have the doctor admitting her, exhausted after what sounded like a hellish night on call. She looked pale, weak, nauseated. It just seemed so messed up that we just take for granted the ridiculous hours they put in and still expect them to perform at top level, even minor mistakes can have significant impacts of patient care.

    They're just people, and yet we expect them to work all hours of the day but still make important judgement calls, reassure patients, care for deteriorating patients and sign their name to notes they're making that, worst care scenario will be read back to them by a court stenographer. It's not right. It's reckless and it's treating a highly skilled and driven group of people insultingly badly.

    Reilly can get the large boat trying to strike fear into the public about this one day strike. The health service is a joke and is being propped up by people like these overworked doctors. Stand behind them 100%, they deserve better, the patients deserve better.


  • #33
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Stheno wrote: »
    No speculation on point one see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056828675&page=2 It was two junior doctors who commited suicide, plenty of supplementary artciles etc in the thread I've linked to.

    My second point is that having been admitted to a and e at 9pm one evening, it took five days just before I had surgery for doctors to reexamine original blood tests (I only had one set taken) and find a result that had previously been missed.

    I can see how tiredness could have caused that.
    Yes, there was. You were speculating as to the cause. Now if one of those links makes that concrete then, absolutely, fair enough. I'm not hunting through every link on that thread to verify your assertion though.

    The facts in second point could be interpreted any number of ways and that you are trying to force them to fit your agenda weakens your argument. An argument, I should say, which is very strong without resorting to speculation.


  • #34
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    It isn't literally a case of always being on duty and on their feet for 35 hours, which might be the perception.
    But is most likely the reality. That said, they prob have breaks but no doubt are short and when you're in work, you're in work.
    I dont see bus drivers or artic drivers putting up with 30 hour shifts. Thats because its against the ****ING LAW!!
    Not shouting at you cody btw. Just the whole overall crap system we put up with.


  • #35
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    humbert wrote: »
    Yes, there was. You were speculating as to the cause. Now if one of those links makes that concrete then, absolutely, fair enough. I'm not hunting through every link on that thread to verify your assertion though.

    The facts in second point could be interpreted any number of ways and that you are trying to force them to fit your agenda weakens your argument. An argument, I should say, which is very strong without resorting to speculation.

    Fine, stick with your "nothing is wrong because I know one graduate from medicine who coped fine with the system"

    I will not use the system if I can, I will use private options instead rather than depend on a system which finds it appropriate to force people to work 72-84 hours on the trot with minimal rest.

    I know what system I'd prefer to be treated under, and it's not our current public health system.


  • #36
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    Time for the nurses to man up...lets see if they are worth what they think they are


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  • #37
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Stheno wrote: »
    Fine, stick with your "nothing is wrong because I know one graduate from medicine who coped fine with the system"

    I will not use the system if I can, I will use private options instead rather than depend on a system which finds it appropriate to force people to work 72-84 hours on the trot with minimal rest.

    I know what system I'd prefer to be treated under, and it's not our current public health system.
    I have explicitly said, in every post, that I think change is necessary and the current system is daft but you feel free to throw a hissy fit.


  • #38
    KDII
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭KDII


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Time for the nurses to man up...lets see if they are worth what they think they are

    A nurse can't do a doctors job, nor can a doctor do a nurses. No need for nurses to "man up"- there'll be weekend cover in place during the strike.


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Junior doctors can be expected to work 35 hours on the trot, with the odd short break for a power-nap. That is utter insanity, and dangerous to patients as well as doctors.
    Blame whoever or whatever permits this craziness.
    This scandal has been going on for as long as I can remember, even in the UK it is the same.

    Why hasn't it changed?


  • #40
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Time for the nurses to man up...lets see if they are worth what they think they are


    When they're wiping your shìtty arse because you're unable to wipe it for yourself... actually you probably won't have the capacity to think they're worth every cent then either.


  • #41
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    humbert wrote: »
    I have explicitly said, in every post, that I think change is necessary and the current system is daft but you feel free to throw a hissy fit.

    No I felt free to point out both the personal ramificiations as experienced by a doctor working in the system, and how it has affected me as a patient.

    We both agree the system needs changing, it's sheer madness subjecting new entrants to the medical profession to that stress.


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  • #42
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Time for the nurses to man up...lets see if they are worth what they think they are

    I do not know where you are coming from with that remark, bur the nurses I have met through my few problems, and hospital stays, you will not find finer than ours. Get a grip clown or explain your comment.


  • #43
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Stheno wrote: »
    Fine, stick with your "nothing is wrong because I know one graduate from medicine who coped fine with the system"

    I will not use the system if I can, I will use private options instead rather than depend on a system which finds it appropriate to force people to work 72-84 hours on the trot with minimal rest.

    I know what system I'd prefer to be treated under, and it's not our current public health system.
    And there should be no good reason for that, given how much prsi we pump into it.
    It needs to be reformed badly. But private is not ideal either. Just look at the wonderful healthcare there is in the good ole us of a. There is a ****ing tragic system that pisses all over anyone that hasn't forked out $20k plus or minus.
    Every man for himself etc. Basically if you dont earn over a certain amount you are on your own. Be that as it may but dont tout it as the be all and end all of healthcare. Thats just a case of "feck you, i'm all right"


  • #44
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    It probably depends on the hospital. Your average SHO in a country Hospital, with 30 sleeping Grannies under his roof is going to have a far less stressful zillion hour shift than an SHO in Tallaght or the Mater or that. On the other hand, in the latter cases I would just assume there is a rota for on-call work divided by the various departments.

    I don't want to come across as defending the practice as it is. My point is only that the experiences I have heard is of of junior doctors who do manage to get rest, it's just that they report problems sleeping and related issues, which undermines the rest they get. It isn't literally a case of always being on duty and on their feet for 35 hours, which might be the perception.
    The rota in the smaller country hospital tends to be more onerous, 1:3 or 1:4 on call. And yes, they do tend to get a couple of hours here and there. But being on call every 3rd night and for up to 80+ hours in one go over the weekend (even if u do grab a couple of hours here and there) is still miserable and not even closely comparable to any job I have ever heard of, and certainly not one with the amount of responsibility.

    SHOs and Registrars in the bigger centres tend to be on less onerous rotas (maybe 1:6, 1:7) but the shifts are truly awful. Getting a half hour here or there is a minor miracle.

    I appreciate you are trying to find a degree of balance but this scenario is truly one of the few where there really is no balance to be found; country hospital, city hospital, big hospital, small hospital, it is all an utter disgrace and has been for far far too many years.


  • #45
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    When they're wiping your shìtty arse because you're unable to wipe it for yourself... actually you probably won't have the capacity to think they're worth every cent then either.
    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    I do not know where you are coming from with that remark, bur the nurses I have met through my few problems, and hospital stays, you will not find finer than ours. Get a grip clown or explain your comment.


    Chill out. I know nurses over here are very good and all that good stuff. What I was saying is that they are always looking for more responsibility and more money. Countless times I have heard them on the radio saying they could do the work of a doctor. Well heres their chance


  • #46
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Stheno wrote: »
    No I felt free to point out both the personal ramificiations as experienced by a doctor working in the system, and how it has affected me as a patient.

    We both agree the system needs changing, it's sheer madness subjecting new entrants to the medical profession to that stress.
    I apologise for being pedantic but it's a compulsion.

    If you'd stated your personal experience in the former case (i.e. your experience as a doctor in the field) I'd have no objections and if you'd concrete reasons for your conclusions in the latter case I'd likewise have no objections but in both cases they were just your opinion on cases with many other possible interpretations.

    Since we don't actually disagree I acknowledge that this is pointless. Fingers crossed for a sane and stable working environment for junior doctors in the not too distant future.


  • #47
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭drkpower


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Chill out. I know nurses over here are very good and all that good stuff. What I was saying is that they are always looking for more responsibility and more money. Countless times I have heard them on the radio saying they could do the work of a doctor. Well heres their chance

    It isn't. Nurses will not take up the role of NCHDs if/when they go on strike. The impact will be on elective procedures and admissions. Everything else will go on as before. It will be as if it is Saturday at every hospital.


  • #48
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    shedweller wrote: »
    And there should be no good reason for that, given how much prsi we pump into it.
    It needs to be reformed badly. But private is not ideal either. Just look at the wonderful healthcare there is in the good ole us of a. There is a ****ing tragic system that pisses all over anyone that hasn't forked out $20k plus or minus.
    Every man for himself etc. Basically if you dont earn over a certain amount you are on your own. Be that as it may but dont tout it as the be all and end all of healthcare. Thats just a case of "feck you, i'm all right"

    Not touting it as such at all, but my experience has been that if you have the money you will get seen, I ruined my knee last year, and got an appointment privately within a week, public would be a year or more.

    Now I'd a fairly bad injury, chronic as opposed to severe.

    That said my dad (rip) was treated start to finish for cancer in the public sector and got good (not great) care.

    He ended his life in a hospice suite provided by a charity who gave the HSE the money to build it so we had a little peace to spend our dads last day in. Prior to the day before his death, he was in a public ward with five other patients, all of them disturbed by us trooping in as at that point we had 24/7 rights to visit.

    It's truly a horrid system that we have.


  • #49
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Chill out. I know nurses over here are very good and all that good stuff. What I was saying is that they are always looking for more responsibility and more money. Countless times I have heard them on the radio saying they could do the work of a doctor. Well heres their chance

    You should try and keep up with the times. Try and change channels and develop a broader outlook on life.


  • #50
    polydactyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭polydactyl


    Currently on call lads. Have not seen the outside of the hospital since 8am nor will I till 10am tomorrow. This is a "grand call" as its the weekend so "only" 26 hours. If it was a Monday into Tuesday it would be till 5pm. I am "on call" so while I managed to eat dinner today I carried a bleep meaning at every second I was available to be called to leave my dinner and run/walk to see a patient. I have to answer those bleeps. Hardly relaxing. Sleep? Not a chance as while a 100 or so "junior docs" and 40 or consultants are in the hospital 9-5 Monday to Friday right now there are 7 of us in this entire major dublin hospital. All "junior doctors" so plenty to keep me busy. The fact that this shift is what we are actually agreeing to settle for should tell you how crap the situation is. All this an 4 months pregnant too. Fun!


  • #51
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    You should try and keep up with the times. Try and change channels and develop a broader outlook on life.


    Perhaps I tried to communicate my point in too flippant a manner. If they go on strike why dont the nurses volunteer their services? I am no expert, but from what they (nurses) say, they should be able to handle the void left by junior docs.

    I am quite happy with my outlook on life. Thanks for the concern though ;)


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  • #52
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Perhaps I tried to communicate my point in too flippant a manner. If they go on strike why dont the nurses volunteer their services? I am no expert, but from what they (nurses) say, they should be able to handle the void left by junior docs.

    I am quite happy with my outlook on life. Thanks for the concern though ;)

    Imature and not in the real world.


  • #53
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭drkpower


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    If they go on strike why dont the nurses volunteer their services? I am no expert, but from what they (nurses) say, they should be able to handle the void left by junior docs.

    Nurses don't do the same job as doctors.


  • #54
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    Imature and not in the real world.


    YOLO


  • #55
    polydactyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭polydactyl


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Perhaps I tried to communicate my point in too flippant a manner. If they go on strike why dont the nurses volunteer their services? I am no expert, but from what they (nurses) say, they should be able to handle the void left by junior docs.

    I am quite happy with my outlook on life. Thanks for the concern though ;)

    Because nurses are nurses and not doctors! Legally they cannot do loads of the stuff we can. They cannot order X-rays and write prescriptions and have a completely different set of skills. In the same vein if they went on strike the junior doctors would not have a clue how to do the things the nurses are trained to do! We have different jobs and different skills and are not inter changeable. If the pilots go on strike do we get the ship captains to step in?


  • #56
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    I am simply saying that every time nurses look for a raise they compare themselves to docs and how they should be given more responsibility, etc. Some even going as far as saying they could do the job of a doctor.
    If this is the case (as stated by nurses themselves) let them replace the docs while they are on strike. Everyone wins...docs go on strike, nurses get the responsibility they want, patients are cared for. Happy days. Whats the problem?


  • #57
    Dr Nic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Dr Nic


    I'm lying in bed unable to sleep a few hours before starting my Saturday call. Its 4am and only about 12 hours after finished my thurs shift.
    50 minutes sleep btw half 7 Thursday and 4pm Friday. I thought my eyes were going to bleed.

    Not complaining just stating facts.
    My family asked me what do I do on-call. Every1 assumes on-call means at home in bed awaiting an odd call.

    3 arrests, 2 rip, 1 anaphylaxis, 2 chest pain, 2 hdu admissions and 6 elective admissions that could easily have been done by day staff if the patient could have came in earlier. Even got given out to cause I didn't do the ECG overnight for one elective, cause 'he's first on the list, now they'll have it over us'...

    A chest pain is an hour. Arrest minimum 30 mins. I don't measure these thing in any other way cause all I crave is bleep free time to rest. But it never came

    Then I start my day job and im expected to know by heart every detail & blood result about my inpatient list for my consultant, who after a quick round where he gives me jobs then heads off to a private clinic. He will round later and expect the results of the jobs he asked for done. I also assist in theatre for an hour and saw 5 patients in clinic

    Also got a few jibes thrown at me about how much I earn, the strike and 'dodging work'.
    It starts again in 5 hours 20 mins


  • #58
    itac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭itac


    Dr Nic wrote: »
    I'm lying in bed unable to sleep a few hours before starting my Saturday call. Its 4am and only about 12 hours after finished my thurs shift.
    50 minutes sleep btw half 7 Thursday and 4pm Friday. I thought my eyes were going to bleed.

    Not complaining just stating facts.
    My family asked me what do I do on-call. Every1 assumes on-call means at home in bed awaiting an odd call.

    3 arrests, 2 rip, 1 anaphylaxis, 2 chest pain, 2 hdu admissions and 6 elective admissions that could easily have been done by day staff if the patient could have came in earlier. Even got given out to cause I didn't do the ECG overnight for one elective, cause 'he's first on the list, now they'll have it over us'...

    A chest pain is an hour. Arrest minimum 30 mins. I don't measure these thing in any other way cause all I crave is bleep free time to rest. But it never came

    Then I start my day job and im expected to know by heart every detail & blood result about my inpatient list for my consultant, who after a quick round where he gives me jobs then heads off to a private clinic. He will round later and expect the results of the jobs he asked for done. I also assist in theatre for an hour and saw 5 patients in clinic

    Also got a few jibes thrown at me about how much I earn, the strike and 'dodging work'.
    It starts again in 5 hours 20 mins

    Thank you for doing what you do. Many of us do appreciate it.

    I've had surgery 3 times over last 7 mths for chronic knee problems & a partial knee replacement....My big bro is currently undergoing chemo on public. i can't speak highly enough of the hospital staff we've both met and been treated by over the last few months, both Docs, nurses (& in my case) physios going above & beyond what i would've expected of them.

    I think some people seem to think that hospital Drs are the same as GPs, that they get to sit in an office and only work nice "cushy" hours and that stories like Dr. Nic's are the exception in hospitals, not the norm.


    If Reilly had any guts, he'd go and "work" alongside the Docs for a week and then come back and say with confidence what they're asking for is too much. I can't see that happening though.


  • #59
    polydactyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭polydactyl


    Still up here and as predicted no sleep. I don't know a single nurse who says they can do the jobs of a junior doctor in fairness. Yes they can do some of the tasks that we do and visa versa but that's 5% of the job that crosses over not 100%.


  • #60
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    I've been on both sides of the fence, I was an NCHD and now I'm one of those much-maligned consultants (before anyone starts, I don't see private patients, I don't feck off golfing or anywhere else during working hours, I work about 60 hours a week (plus on-call) 39 of which are paid, and I don't get payments or holidays from drug companies to prescribe their drug.)

    I look back on my NCHD days with horror and resentment. I lost my early to mid twenties to horrendous working conditions. Over one year i routinely (as in, one weekend in 4) did a weekend on call which consisted of 9am Saturday to 5 pm Monday, with no guarantee whatsoever of a break. the worst one of those I did was one during which I got a grand total of about one or one and a half hours sleep, in broken segments (can't be more specific, the details are hazy now). and even the sleep you get, if you get it, is not quality sleep, you are always on alert for the bleep, you hear others bleeps going, their doors banging etc. I recall coming home utterly exhausted, thinking that even the effort of stopping at a takeaway was too much, I'd much rather just go to bed hungry. I can vividly remember 24 hour shifts during which I didn't even get a chance have a cup of tea, much less a meal. I can remember one day after a shift from 9am the previous day to 5 pm the next, ie 32 hours, when I decided to get a taxi home rather than drive as I didn't think I was ok to drive, yet 30 mins before I'd been looking after some seriously ill people who, frankly, deserved better than the exhausted frazzled wreck they were getting. I've puked at work, from sheer exhaustion. I've gotten dehydrated. I've seen colleagues literally faint and collapse. I've seen the conditions burn people out so that they end up hating their careers, resenting the patients and ultimately leaving. I've heard of the tragedies.

    it's an inhumane way to treat people. what's further sickening is the inevitable hse rhetoric that this is about money- its not. it's about safety for patients and doctors. I'm amazed we haven't seen the annual article about some NCHD somewhere who earned 100k in overtime wheeled out by the hse to illustrate how greedy and over paid docs are- they never seem to question just how many hours that doctor worked to earn that money.

    life is different for me now, as a consultant. there's a different set of demands and pressures. the hours are much more civilised, and the on-call is a different kind of busy, many phonecalls throughout the night etc. I look at my college friends, some of whom are consultants, some GPs, some still in training, some having left medicine, and all wi have their version of my tale above, different hospitals but the facts the same. when you're working those kinda shifts, with the resultant exhaustion, it's hard maintain a life outside medicine. don't forget you need to study for post graduate exams as well while you're working like this. your family might understand that you aren't available at weekeds, or that you can't always get out of on-call, friends outside of medicine understand it at first, but get sick of hearing "sorry, I'm on call" or "sorry, I was on last nite and I'm wrecked" when they suggest meeting up. maintaining a relationship is very difficult.

    I'm not trying to paint doctors as unsung heroes here, though maybe I should. the bottom line is they are hard working individuals with huge responsibility who should be allowed work in safe conditions.

    is that too much to ask for?


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  • #61
    hansfrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    sam34 wrote: »
    I've been on both sides of the fence, I was an NCHD and now I'm one of those much-maligned consultants (before anyone starts, I don't see private patients, I don't feck off golfing or anywhere else during working hours, I work about 60 hours a week (plus on-call) 39 of which are paid, and I don't get payments or holidays from drug companies to prescribe their drug.)

    I look back on my NCHD days with horror and resentment. I lost my early to mid twenties to horrendous working conditions. Over one year i routinely (as in, one weekend in 4) did a weekend on call which consisted of 9am Saturday to 5 pm Monday, with no guarantee whatsoever of a break. the worst one of those I did was one during which I got a grand total of about one or one and a half hours sleep, in broken segments (can't be more specific, the details are hazy now). and even the sleep you get, if you get it, is not quality sleep, you are always on alert for the bleep, you hear others bleeps going, their doors banging etc. I recall coming home utterly exhausted, thinking that even the effort of stopping at a takeaway was too much, I'd much rather just go to bed hungry. I can vividly remember 24 hour shifts during which I didn't even get a chance have a cup of tea, much less a meal. I can remember one day after a shift from 9am the previous day to 5 pm the next, ie 32 hours, when I decided to get a taxi home rather than drive as I didn't think I was ok to drive, yet 30 mins before I'd been looking after some seriously ill people who, frankly, deserved better than the exhausted frazzled wreck they were getting. I've puked at work, from sheer exhaustion. I've gotten dehydrated. I've seen colleagues literally faint and collapse. I've seen the conditions burn people out so that they end up hating their careers, resenting the patients and ultimately leaving. I've heard of the tragedies.

    it's an inhumane way to treat people. what's further sickening is the inevitable hse rhetoric that this is about money- its not. it's about safety for patients and doctors. I'm amazed we haven't seen the annual article about some NCHD somewhere who earned 100k in overtime wheeled out by the hse to illustrate how greedy and over paid docs are- they never seem to question just how many hours that doctor worked to earn that money.

    life is different for me now, as a consultant. there's a different set of demands and pressures. the hours are much more civilised, and the on-call is a different kind of busy, many phonecalls throughout the night etc. I look at my college friends, some of whom are consultants, some GPs, some still in training, some having left medicine, and all wi have their version of my tale above, different hospitals but the facts the same. when you're working those kinda shifts, with the resultant exhaustion, it's hard maintain a life outside medicine. don't forget you need to study for post graduate exams as well while you're working like this. your family might understand that you aren't available at weekeds, or that you can't always get out of on-call, friends outside of medicine understand it at first, but get sick of hearing "sorry, I'm on call" or "sorry, I was on last nite and I'm wrecked" when they suggest meeting up. maintaining a relationship is very difficult.

    I'm not trying to paint doctors as unsung heroes here, though maybe I should. the bottom line is they are hard working individuals with huge responsibility who should be allowed work in safe conditions.

    is that too much to ask for?

    Have to ask. Do you vote at election time??
    Do you realise FF/FG members will never see a junior doctor?
    Do you imagine they care?


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