British to make people work for their dole

mango salsa wrote: »

We do already - its called Tus

mango salsa wrote: »

Exactly - its called Tus

mango salsa wrote: »

They already did.

Its called Tus

mango salsa wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056728601

TUS schemes are only fudging the unemployment figures. While a person is on a TUS scheme, they are taken off the live register so are not classed as unemployed. Then, when the 12 months is up, they are dumped back on the live register and someone else is taken off it to replace them.

We have similar schemes and the Tories would love to reintroduce workhouses if they could get away with it.

Agricola wrote: »

Its funny that your location is down as Uranus, cos thats where you do appear to be talking from alright.

Im sure there are people long term unemployed who have no desire to work. That was the case during the boom and it is the case now. But would that be the vast majority? Of course not. We havnt gone from 6% unemployment to 14% over the last few years simply because people have decided to lie around on the dole for the craic.

Would it be possible to have this debate in a mature manner listing the pros and cons of the proposal without resorted to "DEM LADS ON DA DOLE R GETTIN ME TAX MONEY N DEY DONT WANT TO WORK LIKE"?

No, thought not. :rolleyes:

Those 6% to 14% figures do show that not everyone who has gone on the live register in the last 5 years is a lazy layabout looking for a free ride, but I do think there is a serious issue with motivation for people who are long term unemployed. There are people who have given up looking, or have reduced the number of CV's they send out to a pitiful amount a month, because they are sick of constant rejection and "know" nothing will come of it.

Then there are the trade people, there are a lot of them still lurking about waiting for things to go back to the way they were so they can start laying bricks again or some other building related thing. Those people need to reskill, because those jobs aren't coming back, and they will need a serious kick up the arse to go do it.

Then there are the people who would like to work but won't because a job paying minimum wage for 20/30 hours a week will often leave them worse off or only marginally better than the dole.

Then there are the 6% of people who were on the dole during the boom. Some of those would have been people between jobs but if even half of those were the lazy layabouts people are talking about then that makes up a quarter of our current unemployment spending budget, and that number is likely higher.

I have no idea what percentage the above people make up but even if it's just the last one then it's worth tackling. I know there is a lack of jobs at the moment but there are a lot more out there than people let on, they are just hard to get. People need to reskill, people need to move outside their comfort zone, people need to make their own jobs and become self employed. Some people still won't be able to find work no matter what, but if given significant motivation people would get creative instead of sitting and waiting for things to get better on their own.

For the people saying that this will displace council works and meals on wheels, it won't, I don't know once town in Ireland that couldn't do with more people out cleaning up and make the place more tidy. And aren't meals on wheels a volunteer organisation? I'm sure they wouldn't be too put out by the extra help.

That being said, I have no idea how this could be implemented properly. When someone has their dole docked because they refused to do the work all they will need to do is show a community welfare officer that they can't afford to eat that week or that they are going to go homeless and they will help them out. And I don't disagree with them, I don't think they should let anyone go homeless. I have no idea how they would get around that issue tho. So that means that this system will only effect those who want to work, making it a little pointless. So unless the government are going to be hard asses about it I don't see it being a proper solution to the issue of motivating the long term unemployed.

Yes. So they're basically giving them jobs and calling it "volunteer work" to get their dole in return. Then they should obey the law of minimum wage.


The dole in England is about 65 pounds a week and minimum wage is 6.31, so they should work (sorry, "volunteer") no more than 10 hours a week. Any more than that is exploitation.

It's easy to look at this and point out the parasites leeching off taxpayer money. However, it's worth noting that in the current environment there are plenty of people who have been laid off and have taken it very hard. Psychologically, a lot of people (particularly those who have been working all of their lives) identify with their jobs and their self esteem plummets when they are made redundant. Instances of extreme depression can result.

Remember the guy (I think it was in Cork) who killed himself and his daughter after being let go a few years ago? An extreme example, but it just goes to show the negative impact that this can have. Now, if a scheme was to be introduced which would allow these people to work for their benefits, that would be great. They could hold their heads high in society and the stigma that many associate with the dole would dissipate over time.

Unfortunately, policing such a scheme would prove incredibly difficult and the costs of enforcement would lead to a false economy for the government so I can't see it happening.