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British to make people work for their dole

  • 30-09-2013 07:28AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    sky news wrote:
    Chancellor: 'Jobless Must Work For The Dole'

    Chancellor George Osborne is to give details of tough new conditions being attached to unemployment handouts - pledging to end the "something for nothing" culture.
    Claimants who go through the coalition's flagship Work Programme but still fail to find a job will be required either to do community work, report to a job centre daily, or undergo intensive treatment to tackle problems such as illiteracy or mental illness.
    Those who break the rules of the Help to Work scheme, for example by failing to turn up for duty without a good reason, could lose their benefit for four weeks.
    A second offence would see them lose it for three months.
    Mr Osborne will announce the US-style initiative, which is due to come into force in April, in his speech to the Tory conference in Manchester today.
    He will promise that the Government will not "abandon" the long-term unemployed.
    "For the first time, all long-term unemployed people who are capable of work will be required to do something in return for their benefits to help them find work," he will say.
    "They will do useful work to put something back into their community making meals for the elderly, clearing up litter, working for a local charity. Others will be made to attend the job centre every working day.
    "And for those with underlying problems, like drug addiction and illiteracy, there will be an intensive regime of help.
    "No one will be ignored or left without help. But no one will get something for nothing.
    "Help to work - and in return work for the dole. Because a fair welfare system is fair to those who need it and fair to those who pay for it too."
    Potentially, around 200,000 long-term Jobseeker's Allowance claimants could be eligible for the new initiative.
    But ministers believe that the numbers on it will be significantly lower, as many of those working covertly will decide it is no longer worth trying to claim benefits and drop out.
    The scheme, devised by Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, will cost around £300m to implement - with the money likely to be found from departmental underspends.
    Sky's chief political correspondent Jon Craig described the new conditions as "a tough crackdown".
    He said: "Mr Osborne will say 'work for the dole' will mean having to undertake community work, for example cleaning up litter and cooking meals for old people - doing work that is beneficial for the local community.
    "If they refuse to do that, Mr Osborne will say they will have to turn up at job centres every day, not just once a week at present, to continue claiming benefits."
    Labour's shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves, said: "It's taken three wasted years of rising long-term unemployment and a failed Work Programme to come up with this new scheme.
    "But this policy is not as ambitious as Labour's compulsory jobs guarantee, which would ensure there is a paid job for every young person out of work for over 12 months and every adult unemployed for more than two years."
    During his set piece speech later, Mr Osborne is not expected to unveil specific action on living standards, despite pressure to respond to Labour leader Ed Miliband's energy price freeze pledge last week.
    Instead, the Chancellor will stress the need to stick with the coalition's economic plans, warning that the UK still has not fully recovered from the credit crunch.
    :: The Chancellor's speech to the Conservative Party Conference in Manchester will be broadcast live from 11.30am on Sky News.
    Related Stories
    Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits
    Welfare Reforms 'Chaos' Attacked By Labour
    Welfare Cap Of £500-A-Week Comes

    I've been saying we should be doing something similar to this for years.

    So why haven't we done it? Might actually get some of the long term unemployed who use the system to avoid getting jobs.


«13456712

Comments

  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've been saying we should be doing something similar to this for years.

    So why haven't we done it? Might actually get some of the long term unemployed who use the system to avoid getting jobs.
    At the very least, it'll stop them doing nixers during the day.

    It's as much to do with eliminating the "black economy" as anything else.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    should be the way its done. A lot of volunteer groups could benefit from this


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    What's this got to do with Ireland excalty?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    If it was me personally, I wouldn't mind going out and picking up litter or cleaning graffiti, gardening public areas etc. if I couldn't get a job.

    I don't expect to get anything for absolutely nothing and don't feel like I should be entitled to it.

    Plus I'd probably go stir crazy doing nothing all day!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    What's this got to do with Ireland excalty?

    A similar solution should be introduced here


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭lahalane


    Bollux to that, I want free money and lots of sleep!! :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    lahalane wrote: »
    Bollux to that, I want free money and lots of sleep!! :mad:

    That's the problem with some people in this country


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭lahalane


    That's the problem with some people in this country

    What, making jokes?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Cork selfbuild


    I don't expect to get anything for absolutely nothing and don't feel like I should be entitled to it.

    That's half the problem is the sense of entitlement attitude of some recipients.

    As the saying goes, money doesn't grow on trees, some people think the state is an endless money tree.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    A similar solution should be introduced here

    While i agree, i do wonder when you hear that over 80% of young muslims in England in certain areas do not work or want to, will they be under the same rules, or will it be turning a blind eye for not want of hassle by the social welfare inspectors over there.
    A good example here would be the t.v license inspectors, i bet you would see very few of them going into hyde road in Limerick or the rougher parts of the cities of the Repulic, i think we call all all answer that when we say they would in there eye do go after the easy prey.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Valmont


    It's a good idea in theory but this is the British government we're talking about. It will probably be Hunger Games situation broadcast on the BBC. I think it would be fair to make people work for their dole if the government itself hadn't ruined so many people's chances of getting a real job in the first place.


  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    As the saying goes, money doesn't grow on trees, some people think the state is an endless money tree.
    The state doesn't but the central bankers can "print it at will" and often do!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭rovoagho


    Yeah, slave labour rocks. We should put them in some kind of... camps or something at night. We can take them there on trains, and we can have a nice big fire to keep them warm.

    Here's an idea if you want to get/keep people working: stop laying your own people off, and start creating jobs that negate the need for voluntary organisations. Bonus: give them standard work contracts and start knocking the jobs for life business on the head.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭Rascasse


    Absolutely nothing wrong with making the long term unemployed work for welfare benefits. Getting up in the morning and having a work ethic is incredibly powerful in moving people into employment.

    The main problem I see with this policy in the UK as it is being reported is that the jobs that have been suggested (clean graffiti, litter picking, working for charities) are also the same types of jobs that are given to those that are sentenced to community service/restorative justice. Yes to welfare-to-work, no to treating them like criminals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭wilser


    If we could we get the ex politicians / presidents to work for their €3000 a week pensions then I think this would catch on


  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rascasse wrote: »
    Yes to welfare-to-work, no to treating them like criminals.
    The problem with them doing "useful" work is the fact that they'll often be competing with someone else (who earns a living from it) to do that work

    In the US, prisoners are considered a resource and are put to work, the jails actually make money off of this employment.

    I suspect that is one of the reasons US judges (possible shareholders in the prison) are so keen on jailing people for crimes that would not jet you jailed anywhere else in the world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    While i agree, i do wonder when you hear that over 80% of young muslims in England in certain areas do not work or want to, will they be under the same rules, or will it be turning a blind eye for not want of hassle by the social welfare inspectors over there.
    A good example here would be the t.v license inspectors, i bet you would see very few of them going into hyde road in Limerick or the rougher parts of the cities of the Repulic, i think we call all all answer that when we say they would in there eye do go after the easy prey.

    I would say its very different than tv inspectors. They need to gain access to your home etc to catch you in the act. According to the op if you didn't turn up to the job centre every day at least then you would lose benefits. Something has to be done to get away from the benefits culture in the uk. It doesn't make sense that people who are on benefits are often better off than those in paid employment without any excertion or effort.

    I think making people turn up to the job centre every day is a good idea. As someone above said it will at least weed out some of those doing the double.

    Doubt it will ever come to pass though as labour likely to be next government.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭Hersheys


    I reckon in theory it's a good idea but very hard to implement in practice. Those who don't want to work won't work and we will see a massive increase of people on disability allowance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    It wouldn't work over here because one of the conditions of unemployment benefit is that you must be available for work, so technically speaking, you're not allowed do voluntary work until after 5pm!

    This is another one of those proposals that'll go nowhere, the same as the UK were looking at cutting people's welfare for their unhealthy lifestyle choices.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Absolutely fine if they're paid the equivalent of minimum wage. What's that about 20 hours? Seems fair.

    Job guarantee schemes are not perfect but if they help the community, and provide experience, they're preferable to the current scheme, which still has very low conditionality attached.

    To my understanding, you can still remain on welfare for 10...15...20 years, so long as you can show you are looking for work. That, to my mind, is just ridiculous. If someone is seriously long term unemployed, well then for their own sake, and for the community's sake, and for society's sake, someone needs to step in and say 'what's going on here?'


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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    isn't this called job bridge in Ireland?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,979 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    isn't this called job bridge in Ireland?
    no

    thats voluntary and is a scheme to get folks into regular jobs
    This would be more like the community employment scheme in ireland, but compulsorary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,404 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    So the plan is, to take a job from a person who already employed in that sector, put him on the dole, force him to do same said job again for half the wages?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    So the plan is, to take a job from a person who already employed in that sector, put him on the dole, force him to do same said job again for half the wages?
    No; the link says they'll be doing community work.

    Presumably the stuff that isn't profitable for private enterprise, the link mentions making meals for the elderly, and picking up litter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 906 ✭✭✭Eight Ball


    no

    thats voluntary and is a scheme to get folks into regular jobs
    This would be more like the community employment scheme in ireland, but compulsorary.

    You are very naive if you believe jobbridge is about getting people back to work, it's about lowering the unemployment figures for political means and giving the business establishment free labour for bigger profits. Jobbridge has done huge damage to the jobs market on the whole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭doolox


    The dole for a single person in Ireland is €186 which equates to 21.5 hours work at minimum wage of 8,65 per hour.

    Most jobbridge schemes require 39 hrs work for the dole + €50 pw. This is equivalent to 27 hrs a week for a single person.

    Some married people get extra dole for non-working partners but as far as I know they will work the same hours as the single person on a job-bridge scheme.

    In effect the efforts of the single person on such work for welfare schemes is subsidising those with dependents or extra welfare payments such as rent allowance etc. Little or no account is being made in relating hours worked on such schemes to actual money received by the participants.

    I am also wary of how quality and safety of such ideas as "meals for the elderly" can be guaranteed if participants are forced onto such schemes. The temptation to cock up things by unwilling and disgruntled participants would be great, requiring a high level of close supervision by better paid staff more loyal to the government but which would seriously undermine the economics of such a move. Also the cleanup schemes would amount to a waste of money if proper professional cleaners were required to monitor and correct the mistakes of the poorly paid inductees.

    This is why slave economies collapsed in the first place, the cost of coercion and close supervision needed to operate a slave economy could not compete with a free labour, money based economy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I've been saying we should be doing something similar to this for years.

    So why haven't we done it? Might actually get some of the long term unemployed who use the system to avoid getting jobs.

    We do already - its called Tus

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    no

    thats voluntary and is a scheme to get folks into regular jobs
    This would be more like the community employment scheme in ireland, but compulsorary.

    Exactly - its called Tus

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭JP85


    The government here wouldnt have the balls to introduce something like this


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭Sgt. Al Powell


    Jeremy Kyle isn't gonna watch itself.


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