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Freeman Megamerge

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    #1472
    Sacksian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    The "attack the tax" Owen Fitzpatrick you're talking about
    (http://website.informer.com/Owen+Fitzpatrick.html) is also responsible for:
    http://www.thecommonlawsociety.com/default.html

    And this great document:
    http://www.attackthetax.com/downloads/The_Attack_the_TAX_Story_02_04_13.pdf

    Which states that "For the Record, Fitzpatrick Financial Solutions is NOT a Limited Liability Company, nor is Fitzpatrick Financial Solutions Registered with the C.R.O."

    The "other" Owen Fitzpatrick is this guy:

    http://www.rte.ie/tv/notenoughhours/presenter.html
    http://owenfitzpatrick.com/about/


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    #1473
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    If you go and have a look at the CLS it's pretty frightening stuff.

    First, once again we get the TNS/DD logo:

    gW4RpfC.png

    Next you can enroll in one of their "schools":

    mo4C0Gd.png

    Cheap at the price, I'm sure :/

    hR0mPGz.png


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    #1474
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1475
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    This "publication" by the "Common Law Society" is pretty eye opening:

    CtVxxYXl.png

    http://www.irishlifeandme.com/chapters/ILAM-Chapter1.pdf

    Featuring this sort of stuff:

    QW0CPxll.png

    ah here, look who's given a nice review of this book:

    EDwNP9r.png


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    #1476
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1477
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Don't know if this was posted already, but it's catching on in the US now too, according to Above The Law: http://abovethelaw.com/2013/09/the-stupid-pro-se-legal-theory-making-the-rounds/


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    #1478
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    more stuff from the CLS

    PfDJjoj.png

    Vj9Mhuk.png

    rLgkqT2.png


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    #1479
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Don't know if this was posted already, but it's catching on in the US now too, according to Above The Law: http://abovethelaw.com/2013/09/the-stupid-pro-se-legal-theory-making-the-rounds/

    It originally came from the US.

    If you go back a page there a pretty decent history of these groups... :)


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    #1480
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Already emailed their Board of Directors with a link and screenshot.


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    #1481
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    I tried to skim through that Irish Life 'book', but when I got to page 23, and was still wading through nonsense and hyperbole, I gave up. Does it have a good ending?


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    #1482
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    What's with the fixation on maritime law with these types?


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    #1483
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    It originally came from the US.

    If you go back a page there a pretty decent history of these groups... :)
    Totally forgot. thanks


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    #1484
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    What's with the fixation on maritime law with these types?

    It's a complex question.

    The BASIC answer is that this scam has, from day one, been about denying that certain groups have authority.

    The idea is that the "maritime courts" - which is what rhey claim all civil courts are - don't have any authority over "sovereign citizens"/"freemen".

    How that's all explained/defines varies from scam to scam.


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    #1485
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Oryx wrote: »
    I tried to skim through that Irish Life 'book', but when I got to page 23, and was still wading through nonsense and hyperbole, I gave up. Does it have a good ending?

    Not for people that follow its advice.


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    #1486
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    For the record, to buy tickets to the CLS school, you pay Darrell O Dea's Pay Pal account. - Darrell is author of another "freeman books": "The Blank of Ireland" :/

    Apparently not everyone is happy with Darrell though... look at this comment on the TNS site:

    ysq5zCK.png


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    #1487
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    The CLS will also sell you case law...errr...

    FTXSdIy.png


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    #1488
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    hello and look here... 99% of the references to the CLS address give the "12 Parnell St, Waterford" address... but the "buy Case Law" page says:
    Please post your Donation to The Common Law Society, Kylekiproe Business Park, Portlaoise, Co. Laois. Please also include the Case Law Reference Number (shown on the next screen once you click submit), so we can allocate your donation. Please send a minimum €120 donation for a two points of case law search)

    http://www.thecommonlawsociety.com/caselaw/default.html

    Which is of course the home of "Attack the Tax" AND the home of "Fitzpatrick Financial Services".


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    #1489
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    If I had €120 to mess around with on Paypal, I'd send them to research published cases where Freemen have had their arses handed to them. Then I'd raise a Paypal dispute if I ever got the results of the "research".


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    #1490
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    The CLS will also sell you case law...errr...

    FTXSdIy.png

    €120 for a case law research FFS, most of the important cases in any are can be found on Google.


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    #1491
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    infosys wrote: »
    €120 for a case law research FFS, most of the important cases in any are can be found on Google.
    Which, in all probability, is what they are doing.

    Or making it up, if they are true to form.


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    #1492
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    infosys wrote: »
    €120 for a case law research FFS, most of the important cases in any are can be found on Google.
    Well, not quite; it's not just the accessibility of the cases that is relevant, it's fair for a researcher to charge for his time in sifting through the most relevant case law as well.

    In fairness this is one of the freemen's less wacky adventures. I'd much rather see them resort to case law than The Ancient Customs of Clans of the Gael.


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    #1493
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Well, not quite; it's not just the accessibility of the cases that is relevant, it's fair for a researcher to charge for his time in sifting through the most relevant case law as well.

    In fairness this is one of the freemen's less wacky adventures. I'd much rather see them resort to case law than The Ancient Customs of Clans of the Gael.

    ahh... but they're not "charging" - they're demanding donations... (no VAT, etc)...

    It'd be quite interesting to see what you'd find in an audit of some of these conmen.


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    #1494
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Well, not quite; it's not just the accessibility of the cases that is relevant, it's fair for a researcher to charge for his time in sifting through the most relevant case law as well.

    In fairness this is one of the freemen's less wacky adventures. I'd much rather see them resort to case law than The Ancient Customs of Clans of the Gael.

    Yes of course any researcher can charge for their work, I would just prefer to know the relevant qualifications of the researcher.

    But from the same site, "SCOOL OF COMMONOLOGY - BEGINNERS
    The Common LAW Society
    School of Commonology
    One Day School : Covering
    Fundamentals of Escaping the Debt Trap | Dealing With Loans, Credit Cards and Unsecured Debt | How to Handle Banks, Debt Collectors, Nasty Calls, The Post, House Callers | Letter Writing | Legal Jargon | Various Laws and Acts | Fundamentals in Court Processes | Responding to Solicitors | Civil Bills / Summonses |"

    https://beginsept.eventbrite.com/

    I would think a €120 for anything they provide may be a little bit of a waste.

    I have never heard of a SCOOL OF COMMONOLOGY" as a legal area of study.


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    #1495
    Boom__Boom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    ahh... but they're not "charging" - they're demanding donations... (no VAT, etc)...

    It'd be quite interesting to see what you'd find in an audit of some of these conmen.

    I wonder what would happen if the Revenue ever decided to properly target those operating in the whole Freeman area ?

    Given their attitude to the laws of the lands, it's very hard to imagine that many freemen would be fully tax compliant.


  • Options
    #1496
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,062 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    hello and look here... 99% of the references to the CLS address give the "12 Parnell St, Waterford" address... but the "buy Case Law" page says:



    http://www.thecommonlawsociety.com/caselaw/default.html

    Which is of course the home of "Attack the Tax" AND the home of "Fitzpatrick Financial Services".

    If I was a sensible person and sent cash via registered post to this address, I wonder who will sign for the letter? An Post should be able to tell me that quick enough.


  • Options
    #1497
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    infosys wrote: »
    Yes of course any researcher can charge for their work, I would just prefer to know the relevant qualifications of the researcher.

    But from the same site, "SCOOL OF COMMONOLOGY - BEGINNERS
    The Common LAW Society
    School of Commonology
    One Day School : Covering
    Fundamentals of Escaping the Debt Trap | Dealing With Loans, Credit Cards and Unsecured Debt | How to Handle Banks, Debt Collectors, Nasty Calls, The Post, House Callers | Letter Writing | Legal Jargon | Various Laws and Acts | Fundamentals in Court Processes | Responding to Solicitors | Civil Bills / Summonses |"

    https://beginsept.eventbrite.com/

    I would think a €120 for anything they provide may be a little bit of a waste.

    I have never heard of a SCOOL OF COMMONOLOGY" as a legal area of study.
    It doesn't matter what they call it, they're making fun of the law.

    I'm sure we've all had those moments where you're reading something, often in tort or contract, where you just roll your eyes at some concept or expression. Binchy, wonderful book, is full of these moments.

    So I wouldn't get carried away with this. Making fun of the law makes it less intimidating for those who are not well acquainted with it, just like how leaving cert textbooks aim to explain organic chemistry or chaos theory in simple, colourful ways.

    I just think we have to know the difference between when these guys are really harmful, and when they are not. There are people in the freeman movement that are doing and saying some extremely dodgy stuff, and even compromising private householder's personal assets. Retrieving genuine court judgements, even at a considerable cost, would be at the 'harmless' end of the scale, in my opinion.


  • Options
    #1498
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what they call it, they're making fun of the law.

    I'm sure we've all had those moments where you're reading something, often in tort or contract, where you just roll your eyes at some concept or expression. Binchy, wonderful book, is full of these moments.

    So I wouldn't get carried away with this. Making fun of the law makes it less intimidating for those who are not well acquainted with it, just like how leaving cert textbooks aim to explain organic chemistry or chaos theory in simple, colourful ways.

    I just think we have to know the difference between when these guys are really harmful, and when they are not. There are people in the freeman movement that are doing and saying some extremely dodgy stuff, and even compromising private householder's personal assets. Retrieving genuine court judgements, even at a considerable cost, would be at the 'harmless' end of the scale, in my opinion.

    If only it was a bit of fun, these people have set up a PLC, they tell people that they can purchase a share in that PLC for the sum of €2.50, its best to say what they say on that site,

    "As a shareholder/member you will have legal protection
    from the Revenue trying to collect Property Tax."

    And

    "Simply become a shareholder/member and return Revenues
    form with sticker provided, stuck to it.
    See sample form with sticker attached. Once you are a Shareholder go the Downloads section of the site to download your sticker."

    The sticker http://www.attackthetax.com/downloads/Sticker.jpg

    And

    "The only risk to you is the loss of your 2 euro
    (Limited Liability of SPV)"

    The advice is not funny, it could land vulnerable people before the courts for both civil and criminal matters. I am the first person to support open frank discussion about the law. I agree the law can be pompous and needs to laugh at it self. But this crowd are more than a little crazy, they in my opinion are dangerous.

    BTW for people having a bit of a laugh at the law they are charging €163.73 per person for the day class. For that money I can get a ticket to a real funny guy.


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    #1499
    alyssum
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭alyssum


    Is the property tax actually illegal in the same way the cuts to welfare are illegal?


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    #1500
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    infosys wrote: »
    The advice is not funny.
    No that isn't, but I actually quite like the expression "commonology" and I feel like borrowing it; it could be interpreted lots of different ways beyond its common law etymology - common sense? codology?

    To emphasize, I don't see any particular problem with them retrieving reported or unreported decisions of the Irish courts for €120. The reason this is harmless is exactly because these guys are getting up to so much genuine nonsense that has nothing to do with the Irish legal system, so I wish they would engage more often.


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    #1501
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    No that isn't, but I actually quite like the expression "commonology" and I feel like borrowing it; it could be interpreted lots of different ways beyond its common law etymology - common sense? codology?

    To emphasize, I don't see any particular problem with them retrieving reported or unreported decisions of the Irish courts for €120. The reason this is harmless is exactly because these guys are getting up to so much genuine nonsense that has nothing to do with the Irish legal system, so I wish they would engage more often.

    I agree totally I love the word, and also will be using it. But someone I don't know to find a case for me for €120, when any new barrister will do it for a cheap bottle of plonk and a bacon sandwich, for a second bottle would give a full opinion, and for €120 would more than likely throw in a happy ending, lol.


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