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Is there an implied xenophobia towards Northerners in Irish society

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  • #182
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Madam wrote: »
    Rubbish - I live in Scotland and you wouldn't believe how similar we are to the Scots - especially the people from around Ayrshire and the West coast!
    That doesn't mean much. All Europeans are practically the same!


  • #183
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That doesn't mean much. All Europeans are practically the same!

    Not true the English are very different from us and the Scots. In someways for the better and in someways for the worst- but they are very different. I find it much harder to "read" an English person than I do a Irish person either nordie or stater. And the French again are very different from the Germans.


  • #184
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Im Ulster Scot too and would consider myself Irish as well. In my experience Ulster Scots in often less than complimentary ways have a lot more in common with the rest of the Irish (think of the similarities between the DUP and FF) than we do with the actual Scots.

    I'm from the Republic but my ancestory goes back (on one side) to Scotland. I quite enjoyed visiting an "Irish" bar in Atlanta last year - all maps of Ireland and Scotland, all Guinness paraphenelia and all the female staff wearing kilts :D

    I think there are strong links with Scotland, I know quite a few Scots who have Irish ancestors - there's been a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between the countries over the years. Something like 6% Irish in Scotland at the moment and 0.7 % Northern Irish...


  • #185
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    old hippy wrote: »
    I'm from the Republic but my ancestory goes back (on one side) to Scotland. I quite enjoyed visiting an "Irish" bar in Atlanta last year - all maps of Ireland and Scotland, all Guinness paraphenelia and all the female staff wearing kilts :D

    I think there are strong links with Scotland, I know quite a few Scots who have Irish ancestors - there's been a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between the countries over the years. Something like 6% Irish in Scotland at the moment and 0.7 % Northern Irish...

    Yes that is true- I have learned Irish reasonably well and was looking now at Scotch Gaelic and its almost like a dialect of Irish. If you know Irish you can work out most of what someone is saying in that language. They really are very similar.


  • #186
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Not true the English are very different from us and the Scots.In someways for the better and in someways for the worst- but they are very different.
    In what ways?
    SoulandForm wrote: »
    I find it much harder to "read" an English person than I do a Irish person either nordie or stater. And the French again are very different from the Germans.
    That's all in your head.


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  • #187
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    In what ways?.

    Firstly the English are a lot less expressive and lot less social. They also forgive a lot easier and in many are more cynical.


  • #188
    HansHolzel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    old hippy wrote: »
    Something like 6% Irish in Scotland at the moment and 0.7 % Northern Irish...

    You're one of the reasons why, when Tyrone won their first All-Ireland, the first thing they did was lock the dressing room door and sing Amhrán na bhFiann.


  • #189
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Firstly the English are a lot less expressive and lot less social. They also forgive a lot easier and in many are more cynical.
    That's all in your head. I know expressive social English people who hold grudges. You're allowing sterotypes and popular culture to shape your view of the world.


  • #190
    average hero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭average hero


    Having visited the North on a number of occasions, I find the place to be beautiful. I have family up there and when visiting it when I was younger I hated it. Being older, I appreciate it's charms and history.

    My (many) experiences with people from up North are that they are a lovely people generally. I like the attitude up there - they are more upfront I find.

    With regards to levels of rudeness, I find that they are generally in line with down here in the Republic of Ireland. It generally is only the lesser educated that are rude. That goes for 'culchies down the bog', to the 'skangers and langers' of inner city Cork, Limerick and Dublin to the hardline Loyalists and Republicans in Belfast.


  • #191
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's all in your head. I know a lot of expressive social English people who hold grudges. You're allowing sterotypes and popular culture to shape your view of the world.

    No Im not- Ive lived in England. Obviously Im dealing in generalizations but generalizations do exist. The English do have a lot to said for them but they are different from us.


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  • #192
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    No Im not- Ive lived in England. Obviously Im dealing in generalizations but generalizations do exist. The English do have a lot to said for them but they are different from us.

    Different from us in what way? That collectively they posses a certain set of characteristics in a greater proportion then we do and vice versa? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds. You're imagining differences that don't really exist to segmentalise the human race.


  • #193
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    You're one of the reasons why, when Tyrone won their first All-Ireland, the first thing they did was lock the dressing room door and sing Amhrán na bhFiann.

    I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. :confused:


  • #194
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JswVRD0FUVk


    The bigotry in this community is quite shocking.


    I would'nt want anything to do with this bunch of savages and i've lived in rough parts of Dublin all my life i've never heard anything like this.


  • #195
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    chopper6 wrote: »
    The bigotry in this community is quite shocking.


    I would'nt want anything to do with this bunch of savages and i've lived in rough parts of Dublin all my life i've never heard anything like this.

    Dont judge a community by the big mouths and "community workers". There is silent if not majority at least large slab of the population that isnt savage- the problem is that they dont trust the rest of the island and so rot away victims of utter scum. Yes they do have some responsibility for the plight they are in but their situation is not an easy one at all.


  • #196
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,153 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ha, keys kept in the door cause nobody would have the balls to burgle the place. :pac:


  • #197
    Manassas61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    chopper6 wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JswVRD0FUVk


    The bigotry in this community is quite shocking.


    I would'nt want anything to do with this bunch of savages and i've lived in rough parts of Dublin all my life i've never heard anything like this.
    No different to the nationalist community with similar type language in regards to huns, kill all huns, Brits out and so on.


  • #198
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    No different to the nationalist community with similar type language in regards to huns, kill all huns, Brits out and so on.

    I get the feeling that you'll spend a lot of your time engaging in whataboutery and moral equivocation on boards.ie.


  • #199
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    No different to the nationalist community with similar type language in regards to huns, kill all huns, Brits out and so on.
    Why do you assume that because someone criticises loyalist sectarianism that means they automatically aren't critical of republican sectarianism?


  • #200
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Pretending to be PC to collect thanks.
    chopper6 wrote: »
    Don't hate anybody..i did say however that i largely disliked nordies and gave my reasons for that.

    Anybody who pretends to be free from prejudice is a liar...

    As i said...my honesty versus PC platitudes to collect thanks...
    A lot of people here, myself included, don't accept the "I've met lots of them and they weren't nice so therefore it's logical that people from Northern Ireland generally aren't nice people and deserve suspicion and hostility" reasoning. As I've said, anyone from the North whom I've met - from both sides of the divide - was exceptionally nice. What you've experienced is what you've experienced, no denying that - but it's not the full picture. Ditto my experience. Confirmation bias is also a factor to take into account if you've made up your mind that people from Northern Ireland are an unpleasant bunch.
    It's not logical to have a negative view of an entire small country, most of whom you haven't met. Even if people from different cultures have specific traits, people are people at the end of it all.

    As for "Everyone is prejudiced" - nobody's perfect for sure, we all judge to some extent. But some people are far more prejudiced than others, and some people put more thought into things like how they view entire populations from different cultures, than others do.
    Just because you say "Everyone is prejudiced" and make the unfounded assertion that people who disagree with you are "pretending to be PC to get thanks" (ffs) in order to justify your worldview, doesn't mean you're correct.


  • #201
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    A lot of people here, myself included, don't accept the "I've met lots of them and they weren't nice so therefore it's logical that people from Northern Ireland generally aren't nice people and deserve suspicion and hostility" reasoning.

    Yeah, those attitudes make me wonder how the person has developed such a poor opinion of such a large number of others and if, really, the problem is a personal one.


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  • #202
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    chopper6 wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JswVRD0FUVk


    The bigotry in this community is quite shocking.


    I would'nt want anything to do with this bunch of savages and i've lived in rough parts of Dublin all my life i've never heard anything like this.

    I also get a whiff of savage bigotry off your posts. Odd, that.


  • #203
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    old hippy wrote: »
    I also get a whiff of savage bigotry off your posts. Odd, that.

    This, possibly, is because of your own prejudice paranoia.


  • #204
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    old hippy wrote: »
    I also get a whiff of savage bigotry off your posts. Odd, that.


    You cant wait to start accusing people of bigotry/racism/prejudice etc...it's what makes you thicktick.


  • #205
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    chopper6 wrote: »
    You cant wait to start accusing people of bigotry/racism/prejudice etc...it's what makes you thicktick.

    You came on here and made some prejudiced remarks against people and then decided that because we take offence at that, we're pc.

    I'll confront bigotry whenever I see it and if it ticks you off that you get called on it, perhaps you should work on getting over your irrational hatreds.


  • #206
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    Some people don't like us, it's ok, lots do.

    I wouldn't waste your puff trying to convince people with prejudices that they have prejudices. Take the good ones with and leave the bad behind.


  • #207
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    A lot of people here, myself included, don't accept the "I've met lots of them and they weren't nice so therefore it's logical that people from Northern Ireland generally aren't nice people and deserve suspicion and hostility" reasoning. As I've said, anyone from the North whom I've met - from both sides of the divide - was exceptionally nice. What you've experienced is what you've experienced, no denying that - but it's not the full picture. Ditto my experience. Confirmation bias is also a factor to take into account if you've made up your mind that people from Northern Ireland are an unpleasant bunch.
    It's not logical to have a negative view of an entire small country, most of whom you haven't met. Even if people from different cultures have specific traits, people are people at the end of it all.

    As for "Everyone is prejudiced" - nobody's perfect for sure, we all judge to some extent. But some people are far more prejudiced than others, and some people put more thought into things like how they view entire populations from different cultures, than others do.
    Just because you say "Everyone is prejudiced" and make the unfounded assertion that people who disagree with you are "pretending to be PC to get thanks" (ffs) in order to justify your worldview, doesn't mean you're correct.

    Of course people are different and in general, generalizations are correct. As a kid I used accompany my parents to antique hunts in Belfast staying overnight and returning on Sunday. No motorways in those days. On the way home as we passed village after village the only things that moved were the union jack flags (in the breeze), no children playing in the streets (except those of Nationalist parents). Two years ago I took some American friends to seer Dunluce Castle and Giant's Causeway. We took an off the beaten track route. In rural parts the mentality still lingers. Union jack flags far more obvious than Tricolours. And the dour and surly look in the faces of the few adults that ventured out.
    We stayed in three B&Bs. Two were obviously owned by people that lean towards the Union. While they were good, business-like and very courteous, they did not have the cheery atmosphere of the other which was run by a husband and wife with a very Irish sounding name. They were curious about our trip and were interesting conversationalists.

    If you were going on holidays and you had a choice in picking your travelling companions, who from the group below would you pick?

    Austrians, Northern Germans, Scots Irish, Finns, Southern Baptists

    OR

    Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, Brazilians, Bostonians

    As a person that likes fun and joie de vivre, I know which group I'd pick from.
    Does that make me prejudiced?


  • #208
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    WilyCoyote wrote: »
    Of course people are different and in general, generalizations are correct. As a kid I used accompany my parents to antique hunts in Belfast staying overnight and returning on Sunday. No motorways in those days. On the way home as we passed village after village the only things that moved were the union jack flags (in the breeze), no children playing in the streets (except those of Nationalist parents). Two years ago I took some American friends to seer Dunluce Castle and Giant's Causeway. We took an off the beaten track route. In rural parts the mentality still lingers. Union jack flags far more obvious than Tricolours. And the dour and surly look in the faces of the few adults that ventured out.
    We stayed in three B&Bs. Two were obviously owned by people that lean towards the Union. While they were good, business-like and very courteous, they did not have the cheery atmosphere of the other which was run by a husband and wife with a very Irish sounding name. They were curious about our trip and were interesting conversationalists.

    If you were going on holidays and you had a choice in picking your travelling companions, who from the group below would you pick?

    Austrians, Northern Germans, Scots Irish, Finns, Southern Baptists

    OR

    Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, Brazilians, Bostonians

    As a person that likes fun and joie de vivre, I know which group I'd pick from.
    Does that make me prejudiced?

    It makes you lazy and prone to using archaic stereotypes.


  • #209
    harryr711
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 222 ✭✭harryr711


    John Doe1 wrote: »
    I'm from east donegal roughly 10 mins away from derry city and feel very connected to northern ireland. I love the forthrightness of people which can be mistaken for being grumpy sometimes:P, the quick wit which through all the turmoil of the last 50 has stayed. I think people who dislike northerners are probably simple-minded folk who more than likely have never even visited the place.

    Oh and ill just leave this here:P

    George Best
    Liam Neeson
    Kenneth Branagh
    CS Lewis
    Alex Higgins
    Eddie Irvine
    Rory McIlroy
    Seamus Heaney
    Van Morrison
    The Undertones
    Stiff Little Fingers
    Ash
    Brian Friel
    Pretty much every US presidents ancestors

    I'm from Cork and feel the same. I'd say the people who think otherwise have invented something in their own mind and live in a closed world. I've lived and worked in Britain with people from all over the 32 counties, got on great with everyone, we were all seen as Irish by the Brits whether we were from the 26 or the 6.


  • #210
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    old hippy wrote: »
    You came on here and made some prejudiced remarks against people and then decided that because we take offence at that, we're pc.


    What's this "we" business?

    Are you claiming to speak for everybody or are you hearing voices again?


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  • #211
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    The Royal WE?


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