Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

McCBrian wrote: »

You can't have it both ways if there is brand protection then surely the same applies for the 6N's, that is a scheduled weekend for 6N Rugby and any other putative game between the champions of the NH v the champions of the SH will obviously have a detremental affect on the other games played that weekend

Yeah if they've agreed with the ERC that's fine. I don't see why Toulon or the Chiefs would have any agreement with the 6 Nations though?

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Don't LV Cup and Rabo games continue on 6N weekends as well?
So the concept of the game doesn't appear to break any rules.

Think the Rabo stopped it, which really any league with any self respect should really given the best players are gone! The LV Cup may well still be doing it.

But of course there's no reason why anyone shouldn't be playing during the 6N, it's just a problem if you withhold international players.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah if they've agreed with the ERC that's fine. I don't see why Toulon or the Chiefs would have any agreement with the 6 Nations though?

IBFdid you find the Martyn Thomas quote?

I know he is a loon but something he said recently resonated in my mind and might have relevance to the current impass will post late tomorrow night as will be on a flight all day tomorrow, if you can provide a link would be appreciated

Also do you have access to the RFU accord for 2007 between the RFU and PRL as that is pertinant to the whole issue/s

McCBrian wrote: »

But they have not agreed with the ERC and the President of RCT has basically told ERC they can go f**k themselves he is going ahead with it and in a deal with a Middle Eastern TV station for broadcast rights.

This is what you get when you cede governance to club owners:(

Well the only way they'll be doing that is if they're not in breach of any contracts with the ERC. The ERC are pretty sketchy on who actually has agreed what with them, as we've seen lately with that press release fiasco.

It's nothing to do with governance though and not an example of anything when you cede governance to club owners.

McCBrian wrote: »

IBFdid you find the Martyn Thomas quote?

I know he is a loon but something he said recently resonated in my mind and might have relevance to the current impass will post late tomorrow night as will be on a flight all day tomorrow, if you can provide a link would be appreciated

Also do you have access to the RFU accord for 2007 between the RFU and PRL as that is pertinant to the whole issue/s

I couldn't find the one that rrpc had posted, which was a statement before the accord was signed. I can find their statement upon signing the accord though, but this one says it slightly differently:

As part of the Agreement, PRL shall be solely responsible for negotiating the sale of their own TV, media & Sponsorship rights and giving directions to ERC in respect of England's position on the sale of the TV, media and sponsorship rights related to the European Rugby Cup and European Challenge Cup.

The agreement gave them sole rights over all their TV, media and sponsorship rights both domestically and in Europe.

The other one stated that the RFU wanted it included that PRL would vote with the RFU on governance issues in Europe. I'd imagine that's in there as well but there's no mention of it here.

http://www.rfu.com/news/2007/november/news%20articles/rfuandprlsignneweightyearagreement

This just gets worse and worse.

I am genuinely concerned about the direction rugby is going in now. Very concerned.

It is becoming clearer and clearer that this is a coup, they had no intention of changing the Heineken Cup - none! A coup by the private clubs to wrestle control of the sport from the unions and the latest from the Racing president shows they are planning a full on assault on the IRB and the Rugby World Cup.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/anglo-french-plans-revealed-for-competition-including-sides-from-southern-hemisphere-1.1540281?page=1

To say that the unions only look after the national teams is an absolute disgrace.

These self interested idiots are going to destroy rugby.

We have hundreds of pages discussing number of teams and qualification criteria blah blah bloody blah but nothing matters to the French and English except power and money.
Sad times ahead when greed will become good for the self appointed.
If the Pro 12 teams stand firm it can be stopped but check who is in the trenches with you, do we trust the Welsh?
The governing Unions must show some muscle and backbone.
End game coming very shortly.

Apologies if old, but can someone explain Conor O'Shea's maths when he said that Quins only get 400k from the HEC whereas the Italian teams get 1.2m? Does the RFU distribute the HEC to all PL clubs? Isn't the PRL's beef, if its about money, with the RFU and not the ERC?

artvandelay48 wrote: »

Apologies if old, but can someone explain Conor O'Shea's maths when he said that Quins only get 400k from the HEC whereas the Italian teams get 1.2m? Does the RFU distribute the HEC to all PL clubs? Isn't the PRL's beef, if its about money, with the RFU and not the ERC?

The PRL split the HEC revenue between all their members where-as the Italians ring fence theirs for their 2 "elite" clubs. This accounts for a good chunk of the difference. The Italians get proportionally more than the English to try and help develop the game there and make up for the fact that there's so little money in their domestic game, which accounts for the rest of the difference.

It's also worth noting that the English teams in the Amlin get a share of the European revenue (equal to that of Quins etc) where-as the Italian teams in the Amlin get nothing. If the Italians did the same thing as the English they'd be getting 2,400,000/6 = 400,000 each.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/anglo-french-plans-revealed-for-competition-including-sides-from-southern-hemisphere-1.1540281

Anglo-French clubs’ axis to press ahead with their proposed Rugby Champions Cup by revealing to French newspaper Le Parisien they are looking to include not only French and English clubs, but sides from New Zealand, South Africa and Australia as well.

Actually laughed out loud at this . Teams from the moon and mars will also be invited to play in the best imaginary competition ever

Deleted User wrote: »

IBF, given yesterday's press releases; do you still believe what you've posted many times that PRL and LNR would have worked within the ERC if they'd gotten 'their way'?

Yes absolutely. In Setpember 2012 everyone was working together and predicting a solution before the end of the year. That's everyone including JP Lux, McCafferty, Ritchie and Goze. And it was the original plan.

I genuinely believe of the ERC hadn't ****ed everything by intentionally delaying the negotiations to force the solution to be closer to the status quo then the solution would be within the ERC. But the fact they did that just showed why they cannot remain.

At this stage it's time to re-assess the situation. What theoretical nuances of the HEC you disagree with (and what LNR and PRL used as a diversion) have now all but been confirmed as a total sideshow/smokescreen.

The "Rugby Champions Cup" (though perhaps a pet project that may never exist) shows the hand of the two organisations (3 including BT) clearly. This is not about rugby, meritocracy nor about fairness. Do you still maintain that they are acting as altruistically as the 'Development tours to Russia' press releases could lead people to believe?

They're developing a strong competition that will be a proper European competition and will be a big improvement on the Heineken Cup. That's it.

If the ERC had made it worth their while, they'd still be in it. If they hadn't been RIDICULOUSLY slow in what seems to everyone as an intentional move to delay negotiations as much as possible, we might already have a solution. I think people are using this "oh it's not our fault, they never wanted to be nice to us" thing as a safety blanket, to console themselves. The reality is one side wanted to play brinksmanship, the other side decided not to waste their time.

Nothing is a sideshow. The problems were Participation and governance. They said that in their very first press release. And ERC never had any intention of compromising on that until it was too late.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They're developing a strong competition that will be a proper European competition and will be a big improvement on the Heineken Cup. That's it.

What a load of bollocks.

They're developing a system whereby they take an even larger share of the pot; they'll use some of that cash to throw big money at the best players from the Celtic nations and Italy, making it all but impossible for any team outside of France or England to win the Super Dooper Galaxy Cup.
It's happening already; this will only accelerate the process.