Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

Winters · 25-09-2013 06:35PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

True, but why give creedence to clear hyperbole and propaganda?

You've seen the numbers plenty of times, any Pro12 team get £3m? Conor O'Shea said Quinns got £800k, reckon he was doubling the numbers for the craic?

As I said to you a long time ago on this, stop reading press releases and think.

If Bath got £800,000 PRL must take the £10m revenue they receive and split it 12 ways irregardless of which competition their members played in the season previous.

Unlike FIR who split the ERC revenue between their two elite teams and their Super 10 clubs make do with the gate.

Those teams must also be wondering what competition if any they will play in next week.

molloyjh · 25-09-2013 06:37PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Anyway, you didn't reply to full post!

Deliberately. Plus I'm on my phone on a bus so it's not the easiest way to continue the conversation. The remainder of your post re-iterated your point about the PRL being interested in fairness, which infers they are the "good guys" versus the Pro12 "bad guys". I've no interest in going over all of that ground again. We've been through it and you know my position on it all.

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 06:37PM

Winters wrote: »

If Bath got £800,000 PRL must take the £10m revenue they receive and split it 12 ways irregardless of which competition their members played in the season previous.

Unlike FIR who split the ERC revenue between their two elite teams and their Super 10 clubs make do with the gate.

Those teams must also be wondering what competition if any they will play in next week.

Premiership Rugby take their ERC revenue and split it between all the full members, so that is 11 clubs some years and 12 clubs other years.

who_me · 25-09-2013 07:22PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Bollocks, they are not coming to European rugby to make up the shortfall. They are coming to European rugby for meritocratic equality The French and English leagues represent 26 of 44 European participants. They are outvoted by the other participants 2 to 1. The Pro 12 meanwhile divide more than 50% of the revenue in Europe between a quarter of the teams. They don't have to qualify those teams, and they dominate any vote at the Union controlled ERC.

So why should they remain in the competition?

An oxymoron, if ever I heard one. It's either a meritocracy, or equality; it can't be both.

To answer your question: they shouldn't. If supplying so many teams is such a burden that they require significant compensation, then they shouldn't stay in the Euro competitions.

It would be great if each nation could have equal representation in the Euro tournaments; unfortunately the other nations lack the populations, player bases, viewership numbers or wealthy sugar daddies to develop/sustain the same number of top-level clubs. So the current system offsets the in-built unfairness in the rugby landscape. Apparently, that's no longer acceptable, so I don't really see how the English and French leagues - with their goals - can/should remain, nor can I see how the others can go with them.

HEC RIP.

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 07:32PM

who_me wrote: »

An oxymoron, if ever I heard one. It's either a meritocracy, or equality; it can't be both.

To answer your question: they shouldn't. If supplying so many teams is such a burden that they require significant compensation, then they shouldn't stay in the Euro competitions.

It would be great if each nation could have equal representation in the Euro tournaments; unfortunately the other nations lack the populations, player bases, viewership numbers or wealthy sugar daddies to develop/sustain the same number of top-level clubs. So the current system offsets the in-built unfairness in the rugby landscape. Apparently, that's no longer acceptable, so I don't really see how the English and French leagues - with their goals - can/should remain, nor can I see how the others can go with them.

HEC RIP.

It's not an oxymoron. Meritocratic qualification for Europe in each of the three leagues that currently exist in Europe with each three leagues being equal. Not an oxymoron.

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 08:13PM

IF we ever joined the RCC we would not be in it for long, as they will cast us aside when they go for their WORLD DOMINATION of rugby below international level.

Also might explain why no mention of Europe was in the name

Interview today with the president of RM92

http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/news/la-rugby-champions-cup-coupe-monde-clubs-selon-jacky-lorenzetti-2509131348.php

Even more reason for FFR and/or IRB not to sanction the Really Crap Cup

25-09-2013 08:17PM

don't be silly McCBrian, this is about qualification being uneven for the HEC remember?

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 08:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

don't be silly McCBrian, this is about qualification being uneven for the HEC remember?

Yes I know, IBF has been telling us that all along:)

PRL will still probably want 6 teams in the Realy Crap Cup Global Version, all the SANZAR clubs will probably have to play off for 1 place and the right to apply. Which can be vetoed by PRL if they are too good lol

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 08:34PM

So Marc Watson of BT Vision was not lying at the launch last September

Watson told SportsPro. "We saw in rugby an opportunity to own a sport exclusively, certainly at club level, and the rights that we’ve bought give us an opportunity to do that."

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_and_insights/we_will_set_up_a_dazzling_new_european_rugby_tournament_says_bt_vision_ceo

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 08:53PM

I think a FIFA club World Cup like competition would be very good. Obviously the calendar would be the problem but if they finalise the current plans for a more unified calendar then it would seem possible. Isn't there a once off match planned this year that's like that?

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 08:56PM

McCBrian wrote: »

So Marc Watson of BT Vision was not lying at the launch last September

Watson told SportsPro. "We saw in rugby an opportunity to own a sport exclusively, certainly at club level, and the rights that we’ve bought give us an opportunity to do that."

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_and_insights/we_will_set_up_a_dazzling_new_european_rugby_tournament_says_bt_vision_ceo

I don't understand the problem with this statement. He's talking about owning the sport from the perspective of TV rights. Like the way Sky Sports own Formula 1. What's wrong with a company setting out to do that?

The thing he said that I don't like was about the new competition etc

Phonehead · 25-09-2013 08:57PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think a FIFA club World Cup like competition would be very good. Obviously the calendar would be the problem but if they finalise the current plans for a more unified calendar then it would seem possible. Isn't there a once off match planned this year that's like that?

Let's flog the poor players to death for the sake of the wealthy owners! seriously are you really a rugby fan?

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 09:05PM

Phonehead wrote: »

Let's flog the poor players to death for the sake of the wealthy owners! seriously are you really a rugby fan?

No you're right, I hate rugby. I play it every week and post on this forum as a way to bring it a crashing down from the inside. :rolleyes:

I think you'll find the players would be very interested in the competition as well. And depending where you place it, it doesn't have to be adding too many games to the calendar.

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 09:06PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Isn't there a once off match planned this year that's like that?

Toulon are planning on playing the Chiefs in Monaco during the 6N's despite ERC and FFR saying they can't

Yet another reason for not letting clubs run tournaments:rolleyes:

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 09:08PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't understand the problem with this statement. He's talking about owning the sport from the perspective of TV rights. Like the way Sky Sports own Formula 1.

The thing he said that I don't like was about the new competition etc

Sure I have seen it on the BBC so how do Sky own the exclusive tv rights?

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 09:11PM

McCBrian wrote: »

Sure I have seen it on the BBC so how do Sky own the exclusive tv rights?

Yeah good point, but not really important to the thread. I don't really watch F1, I'm just giving an example.

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 09:12PM

McCBrian wrote: »

Toulon are planning on playing the Chiefs in Monaco during the 6N's despite ERC and FFR saying they can't

Yet another reason for not letting clubs run tournaments:rolleyes:

Yes the last thing the rugby watching public want to see is the champions of Europe against the Super XV champions in a match both sides want to play. Thank god someone is looking out for their interests!

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 09:12PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah good point, but not really important to the thread. I don't really watch F1, I'm just giving an example.

Neither do I.

It wasn't a very good example then:D

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 09:13PM

McCBrian wrote: »

Neither do I.

It wasn't a very good example then:D

I wasn't really paying attention to it, I thought you'd engage with the actually point of the post

daveirl · 25-09-2013 09:14PM

This post has been deleted.

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 09:18PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes the last thing the rugby watching public want to see is the champions of Europe against the Super XV champions in a match both sides want to play. Thank god someone is looking out for their interests!

So HC winners shorn of Internationals taking part in the 6N's v the S15 champions who will be pre-season very meaningful:eek:

I think the vast majority of the rugby watching public will be otherwise engaged during February

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 09:21PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wasn't really paying attention to it, I thought you'd engage with the actually point of the post

There was no other point to engage?

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 09:27PM

McCBrian wrote: »

So HC winners shorn of Internationals taking part in the 6N's v the S15 champions who will be pre-season very meaningful:eek:

I think the vast majority of the rugby watching public will be otherwise engaged during February

If it's on an international weekend, then yes I'd agree.

So what's the problem with it?

molloyjh · 25-09-2013 09:30PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's not an oxymoron. Meritocratic qualification for Europe in each of the three leagues that currently exist in Europe with each three leagues being equal. Not an oxymoron.

The 3 leagues are not equal and you know that. Of course that point isn't convenient. It's ok for the English and French to have their advantages but it's in everyone's best interest to ensure the other Unions have none. Level the playing field, but only in those areas where the imbalance is in favour of the smaller fish. Some animals etc, etc.

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 09:53PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If it's on an international weekend, then yes I'd agree.

So what's the problem with it?

It is scheduled for the same weekend as the 1st round of matches in the 6N's

No problem in principal, but it would call for a total re-jigging of NH and SH seasons, so not going to happen this side of the RWC

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 09:54PM

molloyjh wrote: »

The 3 leagues are not equal and you know that. Of course that point isn't convenient. It's ok for the English and French to have their advantages but it's in everyone's best interest to ensure the other Unions have none. Level the playing field, but only in those areas where the imbalance is in favour of the smaller fish. Some animals etc, etc.

In terms of quality they are. And that's what's important. The other imbalances are nothing to do with European competition really.

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 09:56PM

McCBrian wrote: »

It is scheduled for the same weekend as the 1st round of matches in the 6N's

No problem in principal, but it would call for a total re-jigging of NH and SH seasons, so not going to happen this side of the RWC

Let them play a weakened Toulon side if they want. It pretty much is the exact same given that Toulon are a bunch of non-French internationally retired players. If the teams are happy to do it then why should anyone stop them?

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 10:04PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Let them play a weakened Toulon side if they want. It pretty much is the exact same given that Toulon are a bunch of non-French internationally retired players. If the teams are happy to do it then why should anyone stop them?

Because it deflects from the 6N's which is why FFR (and I assume the other Unions) are against it.

Do you think SANZAR would endorse Connacht (HEC winners 2013/14) playing the Crusaders (S15 champs) in the middle of the RC:D

and secondly they are breaking ERC rules

irishbucsfan · 25-09-2013 10:10PM

McCBrian wrote: »

Because it deflects from the 6N's which is why FFR (and I assume the other Unions) are against it.

Do you think SANZAR would endorse Connacht (HEC winners 2013/14) playing the Crusaders (S15 champs) in the middle of the RC:D

and secondly they are breaking ERC rules

The ERC rules I can understand, as there's probably brand protection issues there. The clashing with the 6 Nations I don't think is a legitimate complaint unless the game was scheduled to directly clash with another.

McCBrian · 25-09-2013 10:30PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The ERC rules I can understand, as there's probably brand protection issues there. The clashing with the 6 Nations I don't think is a legitimate complaint unless the game was scheduled to directly clash with another.

You can't have it both ways if there is brand protection then surely the same applies for the 6N's, that is a scheduled weekend for 6N Rugby and any other putative game between the champions of the NH v the champions of the SH will obviously have a detremental affect on the other games played that weekend

Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

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