So I think I just caught a dealer clock a car I'm interested in

dantastic · 25-09-2013 07:21AM #1

Have had my eyes on a model of car for a while now. Was planning to test drive this very car over the weekend.
I's been with the dealer for quite some time, this wouldn't worry me as it's not a popular car.

But Googling around I was able to find earlier listings of the car (still with the same dealer) but with 30k miles more on it. Now usually, unless there's funny business going on mileage goes up over time, not down.

So I was able to locate their master stock list and also an older version on google cache. All of a sudden last week they dropped 30k miles and also €1k

Seeing the value of 60k on the odometer in the ad and comparing that to the wear of the interior I was pretty suspicions anyway.

So my first thought was to name and shame and all of that but I'm still interested in the car. I'm just thinking I have a bit more bargaining power knowing the above. This is a larger engine car on the old system and it's been with the dealer for quite come time. motorckeck check tells us it's been with the dealer for over 3 months anyway...

I will have the car independently checked before handing over any money anyway but I'm just thinking about the above information how I can use it to my advantage.

sidcon · 25-09-2013 07:25AM

dantastic wrote: »

how I can use it to my advantage.

By walking away from it

aisr1ofk43dpy5 · 25-09-2013 07:34AM

sidcon wrote: »

By walking away from it

Have you actually been in the car and seen the mileage. Is it possible there was a typing error in the add.

aisr1ofk43dpy5 · 25-09-2013 07:35AM

Sorry i quoted the wrong post there im on the phone.

fl4pj4ck · 25-09-2013 07:44AM

if they're with SIMI you could surely report it to them
dunno if gards will react to something like this, they should imho

Anan1 · 25-09-2013 07:45AM

dantastic wrote: »

So my first thought was to name and shame and all of that but I'm still interested in the car. I'm just thinking I have a bit more bargaining power knowing the above.

Ask yourself what exactly do you know?

fl4pj4ck · 25-09-2013 07:46AM

Anan1 wrote: »

Ask yourself what exactly do you know?

that they had the same car with 30k more on it earlier and now they have a car with 30k less

nelly17 · 25-09-2013 07:47AM

Is it not an offence to clock a car?

djimi · 25-09-2013 07:53AM

nelly17 wrote: »

Is it not an offence to clock a car?

No, the offence is selling a car that you know to be clocked and not divulging that information to the buyer (ie fraud).

Anan1 · 25-09-2013 07:53AM

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

that they had the same car with 30k more on it earlier and now they have a car with 30k less

No. The actual mileage on the car hasn't changed, and we don't know whether the indicated mileage has either. All we know is that the mileage in the ad has changed.

S28382 · 25-09-2013 07:54AM

Is holding a dealer ransom because you think he clocked a car not the motoring form of blackmail. What is going to happen is he going to be ratted out because he won't give you the car for less money?

I think it's wrong people can get away with clocking cars but trying to get it cheaper because it's clocked is not a good way to go either as will it still not come up in checks as having a history of being clocked. Maybe the best way is to just walk away and report him if you see fit.

djimi · 25-09-2013 07:55AM

OP if you buy this car (assuming it is actually clocked) do you plan on telling the person that you sell it on to that it has been clocked?

fl4pj4ck · 25-09-2013 08:01AM

Anan1 wrote: »

No. The actual mileage on the car hasn't changed, and we don't know whether the indicated mileage has either. All we know is that the mileage in the ad has changed.

that's what you suspect

Anan1 · 25-09-2013 08:05AM

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

that's what you suspect

If we're to believe the OP then those are the facts.

fl4pj4ck · 25-09-2013 08:08AM

According to OP:

But Googling around I was able to find earlier listings of the car (still with the same dealer) but with 30k miles more on it

so I suspect the car has been clocked. I can easily report it and not to worry too much whether it's true or not. if the car hasn't been clocked then no harm done, otherwise I would expect the dealer will be somehow penalised

ekevosu · 25-09-2013 08:08AM

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

that's what you suspect

No, those are the facts. Until the OP confirms he's seen the new mileage, that's what the OP suspects.

And honestly OP, blackmail. Really.

Anan1 · 25-09-2013 08:11AM

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

so I suspect the car has been clocked. I can easily report it and not to worry too much whether it's true or not. if the car hasn't been clocked then no harm done, otherwise I would expect the dealer will be somehow penalised

FFS, think about what you're saying. An accusation of fraud is not something to be made lightly.

Kenny Logins · 25-09-2013 08:11AM

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

that's what you suspect

No, those are the facts...

fl4pj4ck · 25-09-2013 08:17AM

the facts are:
a car is made available by dealer with 90k mileage
OP found previous ad with the same car with 30k less

now based on that OP suspects the car has been clocked, so he could notify SIMI if the dealer is associated with them. unless OP wants to take an advantage of this and blackmail the dealer I don't see how letting SIMI notified is wrong, enlighten me

dantastic · 25-09-2013 08:17AM

Right so calm down every one ffs!

I have yet to see the car in person so I cannot confirm what it says on the odometer right now.
What I know is the car has been with the dealer for some time and this is the second major price drop. I also know that with this price drop the listings were updated with a new mileage.

The overall condition of the car would strongly suggest the higher mileage to me.

Report, ya, hahaha. Can't see that help either myself or anyone else for that matter.

Blackmail, strong choice of words. I'd like to call it bargaining power. If they are trying to sell me something with 60k and I can tell them, buddy, it's actually 90k. Can't see how that is blackmail.

fl4pj4ck · 25-09-2013 08:19AM

Report, ya, hahaha. Can't see that help either myself or anyone else for that matter.

as long as people wont change their attitude dealers will keep doing that

fl4pj4ck · 25-09-2013 08:20AM

dantastic wrote: »

Right so calm down every one ffs!
Blackmail, strong choice of words. I'd like to call it bargaining power. If they are trying to sell me something with 60k and I can tell them, buddy, it's actually 90k. Can't see how that is blackmail.

you can call it whatever you want:

black·mail noun \ˈblak-ˌmāl\
: the crime of threatening to tell secret information about someone unless the person being threatened gives you money or does what you want

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blackmail

Anan1 · 25-09-2013 08:20AM

dantastic wrote: »

Blackmail, strong choice of words. I'd like to call it bargaining power. If they are trying to sell me something with 60k and I can tell them, buddy, it's actually 90k. Can't see how that is blackmail.

On a practical note, how could you demonstrate that the mileage was actually 90k?

S28382 · 25-09-2013 08:20AM

dantastic wrote: »

Right so calm down every one ffs!

I have yet to see the car in person so I cannot confirm what it says on the odometer right now.
What I know is the car has been with the dealer for some time and this is the second major price drop. I also know that with this price drop the listings were updated with a new mileage.

The overall condition of the car would strongly suggest the higher mileage to me.

Report, ya, hahaha. Can't see that help either myself or anyone else for that matter.

Blackmail, strong choice of words. I'd like to call it bargaining power. If they are trying to sell me something with 60k and I can tell them, buddy, it's actually 90k. Can't see how that is blackmail.

But do you really want to buy a clocked car the hassle of selling on a clocked car is not worth it and as asked before are you going to tell any potential new owner that the car was clocked?

mathepac · 25-09-2013 08:20AM

Anan1 wrote: »

FFS, think about what you're saying. An accusation of fraud is not something to be made lightly.

Calm down dear and mind your language, there might be children listening.

The poster is making no accusations, merely reporting his suspicions to the appropriate authority for investigation. It's the duty of every citizen.

Simplez.

dantastic · 25-09-2013 08:23AM

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

as long as people wont change their attitude dealers will keep doing that

I completely agree, completely. I just lack even the slightest trust in the system.

I'm just trying to buy a car and it's proving immensely difficult to find one that isn't a bit dodgy in one way or another. I have ruled out so many cars already that I cannot walk away from something otherwise good if it's just the mileage that's been altered.

Anan1 · 25-09-2013 08:24AM

mathepac wrote: »

Calm down dear and mind your language, there might be children listening.

The poster is making no accusations, merely reporting his suspicions to the appropriate authority for investigation. It's the duty of every citizen. Simplez.

The poster is suggesting reporting a discrepancy in the mileage in an ad to the SIMI. I mean seriously, where to start?

Anan1 · 25-09-2013 08:26AM

dantastic wrote: »

I'm just trying to buy a car and it's proving immensely difficult to find one that isn't a bit dodgy in one way or another. I have ruled out so many cars already that I cannot walk away from something otherwise good if it's just the mileage that's been altered.

If you don't trust the dealer then don't buy there - I would have thought that this went without saying. From reading through your previous posts on your search, I think you'd find buying privately from a decent seller a safer and less stressful experience.

dantastic · 25-09-2013 08:28AM

In terms of proof and proving who did what it's obviously impossible so there's very little point.

I have heard though that even if you alter the mileage on the odometer the on board computer still has the real mileage somewhere down deep. You might need something fancier than your average ebay obd2 reader though to get at it.

If I could I'd prefer to have the correct mileage restored.

S28382 · 25-09-2013 08:28AM

mathepac wrote: »

Calm down dear and mind your language, there might be children listening.

The poster is making no accusations, merely reporting his suspicions to the appropriate authority for investigation. It's the duty of every citizen. Simplez.

The OP is giving off the impression that he wont be reporting it any authorities. Im pretty sure in some way he is right not to as why would it be worth his time for something that prob wont be looked into deep enough for the dealer to be punished if needs be.

dantastic · 25-09-2013 08:31AM

Anan1 wrote: »

If you don't trust the dealer then don't buy there - I would have thought that this went without saying. From reading through your previous posts on your search, I think you'd find buying privately from a decent seller a safer and less stressful experience.

Yup. And I've walked away from several privately advertised cars there now advertised as something they have owned and cherished for years and years only to find it's been trading hands twice in the last 3 months.

I don't trust anyone, I think that's a healthy start.

So I think I just caught a dealer clock a car I'm interested in

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