School patronage

recedite · 08-09-2013 3:39pm

IMO a catholic child attending an ET school is not suffering any prejudice or being indoctrinated in any way, so I can't see what right they have to be transported to the school of their choice. Anyway my understanding is that this group are taking a case to the Equality Authority because they want a bus laid on to take them to the RC school. And this is going to open a whole can of worms.

A protestant child attending an RC school, or vice versa, or an agnostic child attending a C of I or RC controlled school would be exposed to unwanted religious indoctrination, possibly hostile to the values of their own family, so there is a case there IMO for them to get transport to another school, even if further away.

recedite · 08-09-2013 5:17pm

inocybe wrote: »

Surely it's less offensive for a catholic to attend a protestant school, both being christian...

AFAIK protestants make the insulting claim that Jesus's mother wasn't really a virgin, but whatever the reason for the tiff, prods and catholics have been killing each other for hundreds of years, and not just in Ireland

Kiwi in IE · 08-09-2013 6:02pm

recedite wrote: »

AFAIK protestants make the insulting claim that Jesus's mother wasn't really a virgin

I am unsure how a fact can be considered an 'insulting claim'. Thats equivelant to saying that 3 + 3 = 6 is an 'insulting claim'. Any woman who is a biological mother is not a virgin. Fact!

(Edit: Unless she has been impregnated by artificial insemination and has never had sex, but I don't think that was an option 2000 years ago)

Sofiztikated · 08-09-2013 6:08pm

recedite wrote: »

AFAIK protestants make the insulting claim that Jesus's mother wasn't really a virgin, but whatever the reason for the tiff, prods and catholics have been killing each other for hundreds of years, and not just in Ireland

From my hazy memory of this, Jesus' mammy was indeed a virgin, it's just the emphasis isn't placed on her, she was just a thing used to produce a babby.

I think.

Very hazy Presbyterian sunday school memories there.

Turtwig · 08-09-2013 6:16pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I am unsure how a fact can be considered an 'insulting claim'. Thats equivelant to saying that 3 + 3 = 6 is an 'insulting claim'. Any woman who is a biological mother is not a virgin. Fact!

The list of people offended by actual facts is pretty endless. Many people are offended when they're told we're related to apes. Native American Indians are offended by science telling them that their ancestors weren't in America since its creation. Poets believe that knowing the true inner workings of flowers took away the beauty. And that's just the scientific facts. Try pointing out blatant hypocrisy of a politician to his hardcore supports. We tend to believe what we want in spite of the facts.

Kiwi in IE · 08-09-2013 6:27pm

Jernal wrote: »

The list of people offended by actual facts is pretty endless. Many people are offended when they're told we're related to apes. Native American Indians are offended by science telling them that their ancestors weren't in America since its creation. Poets believe that knowing the true inner workings of flowers took away the beauty. And that's just the scientific facts. Try pointing out blatant hypocrisy of a politician to his hardcore supports. We tend to believe what we want in spite of the facts.

You make a very good point.

I myself am insulted by the fact that all schools in my area are religious.

Geomy · 08-09-2013 6:48pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

You make a very good point.

I myself am insulted by the fact that all schools in my area are religious.

Do you mind me asking, what part of the country do you live in ?

Kiwi in IE · 08-09-2013 6:57pm

I meant closest ET schools sorry. I would have to have given up my job to drive 2 hours a day. I never checked out the bus service because I wouldn't be sending a junior infant on a bus to travel half an hour there and back. Also we decided it was unfair to send him to school so far outside his community when there are loads of kids on our road who he plays with and went to the local Montessori with.

Geomy · 08-09-2013 6:58pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Wexford. Rural outside Enniscorthy. Gorey and Wexford town closest. Both half an hour away in different directions.

That's a shame you're not close to alternative schools
Were lucky in Clare we have had more options for schooling. ..

Turtwig · 08-09-2013 6:59pm

Geomy wrote: »

That's a shame you're not close to alternative schools
Were lucky in Clare we have had more options for schooling. ..

We do?

Geomy · 08-09-2013 7:05pm

Jernal wrote: »

We do?

Well sorry I do, didnt mean to speak for everyone from Clare in here. ..

Kiwi in IE · 08-09-2013 7:07pm

Geomy wrote: »

That's a shame you're not close to alternative schools
Were lucky in Clare we have had more options for schooling. ..

It does my head in to be honest. We chose this area when we moved from NZ because OH is from here and his parents, bother and sister still live in the area. I would prefer a city definitely, I find it quite backward here and am always struck by how normal Dublin seems in comparison, but family are important and there is more to consider than just myself. We have a lovely house, surrounded by beautiful countryside with a large section that we'd not be able to afford in Dublin. The price to pay is that little Kiwi has to go to a school with an 'ethos' I detest.

Kiwi in IE · 08-09-2013 7:15pm

Jernal was it you who had this same dillema? I remember one of the mods was in my situation with the impending doom of a child starting school and no suitable one in the area. If so how is it going for your family? Have you had the 'Alive O' book with the praying, blessing and genuflecting for parents sent home yet?

Turtwig · 08-09-2013 7:19pm

Definitely not me anyway. No maggots to speak of.

Kiwi in IE · 08-09-2013 7:24pm

Jernal wrote: »

Definitely not me anyway. No maggots to speak of.

It might have been Robin. Someone had the same issue. You mods are all one and the same

Turtwig · 08-09-2013 7:25pm

Yes, I agree. We are awesome.

expectationlost · 08-09-2013 7:35pm

recedite wrote: »

Its not realistic to think "we have a national system of catchment boundaries" any more than it is realistic to say "we are a catholic country." If you want to know what the catchment area for a particular school is, go and ask the principal. If the next school along is owned by the same patron, the two catchment boundaries will correspond, but if not, they may overlap.

:rolleyes::mad:
but im not parent looking for a school for my kid, so they wont give it to me, which is why i want them all released, think it would benefit secular parents, the links above say we do have a national geogrpahic system of primary to post primary schools, i'd like to consider ourselves a modern country.

Hotblack Desiato · 08-09-2013 9:11pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

It does my head in to be honest. We chose this area when we moved from NZ because OH is from here and his parents, bother and sister still live in the area. I would prefer a city definitely, I find it quite backward here and am always struck by how normal Dublin seems in comparison, but family are important and there is more to consider than just myself. We have a lovely house, surrounded by beautiful countryside with a large section that we'd not be able to afford in Dublin. The price to pay is that little Kiwi has to go to a school with an 'ethos' I detest.

It's really not all that much better in Dublin.

There are two Gaelscoils where I live, five RC primaries (all single sex :rolleyes:) and a small CoI primary.

The Gaelscoils have scuppered any chance of an ET here. And no sign of any of the RC schools divesting. No survey here.

expectationlost · 09-09-2013 1:07am

ninja900 wrote: »

It's really not all that much better in Dublin.

There are two Gaelscoils where I live, five RC primaries (all single sex :rolleyes:) and a small CoI primary.

The Gaelscoils have scuppered any chance of an ET here. And no sign of any of the RC schools divesting. No survey here.

the Gaelscoils are catholic "ethos"?

Kiwi in IE · 09-09-2013 1:31am

expectationlost wrote: »

the Gaelscoils are catholic "ethos"?

I had never heard the word 'ethos' before I moved here. I had to look it up when I first heard it.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-09-2013 2:03am

expectationlost wrote: »

the Gaelscoils are catholic "ethos"?

Presumably.

It's repellent in any case...

Obliq · 09-09-2013 8:07am

Jernal wrote: »

We do?

We don't. Also in Clare. (Can't do smilies on this android thingy yet. Just consider me confused as well...)

iguana · 09-09-2013 11:54am

Clare has Steiner schools but they are fee paying and have their own fairly kooky ethos with the spiritual rhythmic dancing thing.

expectationlost · 15-09-2013 11:06am

i tried to finish these maps off
national schools in dublin by type schools http://dublinstreams.com/schools/nschoolscouncils.html
secondary schools in dublin by type schools http://dublinstreams.com/schools/sschoolscouncils.html
still a bit rough

Peregrinus · 15-09-2013 11:17am

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I had never heard the word 'ethos' before I moved here. I had to look it up when I first heard it.

You realise this confirms a lot of our negative preconceptions of New Zealand?

Sarky · 15-09-2013 12:42pm

The only place I have ever heard 'ethos' used myself is in cases of hospitals going "Waah, stop being intolerant of our prejudice!"

I'd be surprised too if I came straight to Ireland from a country where this human rights stuff is actually taken seriously.

15-09-2013 3:30pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I had never heard the word 'ethos' before I moved here. I had to look it up when I first heard it.

I would be interested as to why NZ performs so poorly in international educational studies?(genuine question)

Ireland outperforms NZ in Maths, Science, and Reading, despite all the time spent on religion.

Maths: Ireland 527 vs NZ 486
Science : Ireland 516 vs NZ 497
Reading : Ireland 552 vs 531

NZ is actually below average in Maths and Science.(500mark)

http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/

TheChizler · 15-09-2013 4:15pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would be interested as to why NZ performs so poorly in international educational studies?(genuine question)

Ireland outperforms NZ in Maths, Science, and Reading, despite all the time spent on religion.

Maths: Ireland 527 vs NZ 486
Science : Ireland 516 vs NZ 497
Reading : Ireland 552 vs 531

NZ is actually below average in Maths and Science.(500mark)

http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/

What's the relevance? What does this have to do with the patronage of schools in Ireland?

Cabaal · 16-09-2013 8:18am

Deleted User wrote: »

I would be interested as to why NZ performs so poorly in international educational studies?(genuine question)

Ireland outperforms NZ in Maths, Science, and Reading, despite all the time spent on religion.

Maths: Ireland 527 vs NZ 486
Science : Ireland 516 vs NZ 497
Reading : Ireland 552 vs 531

NZ is actually below average in Maths and Science.(500mark)

http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/

This has zero to do with catholic ethos,,

However, if anything, your argument actually strengthens the argument for religion to be removed from primary level education on the basis that removing it could actually improve Ireland's scoring.

If of course you are trying to argue that religion some how helps improve maths, english and science scores this should be a very interesting and hilarious argument. Please though, go right ahead and lay out the evidence supporting such an argument.

Irish primary school kids are thought TWICE the OECD average when it comes to religion, kids spend 10% of their time doing religion but only 12% of their time learning maths (the OECD avg being 18%).

This is actually a pretty worrying misuse of valuable school time in formative years for children,

If you want to look at top performing countrys on the website you posted then you've only to look at South Korea who consistently rate very highly, yet a majority of the population are not religious. USA also gets some mentions in the top 10.

Kiwi in IE · 16-09-2013 9:22am

Deleted User wrote: »

I would be interested as to why NZ performs so poorly in international educational studies?(genuine question)

Ireland outperforms NZ in Maths, Science, and Reading, despite all the time spent on religion.

Maths: Ireland 527 vs NZ 486
Science : Ireland 516 vs NZ 497
Reading : Ireland 552 vs 531

NZ is actually below average in Maths and Science.(500mark)

http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/

Must be because so many of us are heathens! There is no sky fairy giving kids the answers and no mammys praying!

School patronage

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