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What happened to TV3 HD ?

1246

Comments

  • #92
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    Section 2 gives a three and a half page summary.

    Does it deal with cost at all?


  • #93
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It says not a lot in the whole 362 pages. That summary is of no use as it is in gobbledygook.

    What does Market A and Market B mean? Why are RTE NL (or 2RN) not allowed to set the tarrif and collect the money?

    The cost of the second mux is peanuts compared to the overall cost of running a TV station. It is the cost of a couple of high-rollers from the presentation department from RTE, or perhaps twenty from TV3.


  • #94
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    What does Market A and Market B mean? Why are RTE NL (or 2RN) not allowed to set the tarrif and collect the money?

    It's all there in the document.


  • #95
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »
    It's all there in the document.

    On which of the 362 pages?


  • #96
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    On which of the 362 pages?

    Start with sections 1.6 and 1.7, the rest you'll have to read through yourself.


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  • #97
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    Does it deal with cost at all?

    No that may come in the next consultation.

    This is about RTÉ and RTÉNL's dominance in their respective markets, RTÉ in relation to multiplexing services (the DTT Tariff) and RTÉNL in relation to broadcast transmission services and the lack of competition in these markets and how they should be regulated.


  • #98
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »
    No that may come in the next consultation.

    This is about RTÉ and RTÉNL's dominance in their respective markets, RTÉ in relation to multiplexing services and RTÉNL in relation to broadcast transmission services and the lack of competition in these markets and how they should be regulated.

    Competition is a strange beast.

    The division of broadcasting rights for the Premiership to increase competition results in two broadcasters getting matches divided between them. So now instaed of having to pay one operator to watch soccer, the avid supporter now has to pay two. This is not competition, this is extortion. For competition to work, both companies should get all the matches and show them as they think their customers want them. That way, subscribers go with the best deal.

    RTE should get Mux1, and Mux2 goes to whoever can pay for it. Both muxes are charged out at the same rate on a per megabit basis, and this should be set by either an independant regulator or on a cost-plus basis for RTE NL (2RN). The costs are fairly well known and knowable - there is no magic.

    If there is ever a commercial mux or muxes, then all this changes as any channel can go on any mux they can get carriage on. BT and Setanta may be a game changer (but I doubt it).


  • #99
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Market A = FTA Market
    Market B = PayTV Market

    One wonders why they need to call it A and B does it really save on typing? Prehaps it would have went to 400 had they not.
    No that may come in the next consultation.

    How many consultations is that now?
    This is about RTÉ and RTÉNL's dominance in their respective markets, RTÉ in relation to multiplexing services (the DTT Tariff) and RTÉNL in relation to broadcast transmission services and the lack of competition in these markets and how they should be regulated.

    2RN (aka RTÉ NL) are the only national terrestrial broadcast network in ROI. Lack of Regulation and transparency is what might cause such a network to be considered dominant in such a market. Who else is going to set up such a network in this day and age? 362 PAGES just to state the bleeding obvious.


  • #100
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    RTE should get Mux1, and Mux2 goes to whoever can pay for it. Both muxes are charged out at the same rate on a per megabit basis, and this should be set by either an independant regulator or on a cost-plus basis for RTE NL (2RN). The costs are fairly well known and knowable - there is no magic.

    Mux 2 has already been licenced to RTÉ by Comreg (May 2011) as per the Broadcasting Act so thats not going to change.

    The Comreg Decision puts regulations in place to ensure that multiplexing and broadcast transmission charges are fair to the broadcaster and multiplex operators in a market where there is no other wholesaler in this area.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    If there is ever a commercial mux or muxes, then all this changes as any channel can go on any mux they can get carriage on. BT and Setanta may be a game changer (but I doubt it).

    The commercial mux licencees will also charge the channels a multiplexing fee based on their costs to operate a multiplex, is there a reason to think they will be cheaper than RTÉ multiplexing charge? The commercial multiplex operators will have to enter into broadcast transmission contracts with RTÉNL in any case, no reason to think they will offer lower rates to the commercial multiplex operators.


  • #101
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »

    The commercial mux licencees will also charge the channels a multiplexing fee based on their costs to operate a multiplex, is there a reason to think they will be cheaper than RTÉ multiplexing charge? The commercial multiplex operators will have to enter into broadcast transmission contracts with RTÉNL in any case, no reason to think they will offer lower rates to the commercial multiplex operators.

    RTE NL (2RN) will be hard to beat for supply of the commercial mux as they have the sites, aerials, know-how, and network infrastructure. They do not have the dosh, but that is where the commercial guys come in. However, to make the commercial side work, the operator needs encryption and probably DVB-T2. This makes them have to include a set-top box to their own design, probably incuding a PVR. I think transmission costs will not be a show stopper at the start. They will need deep pockets as BT appear to have or they will go bust in a short time. BT are currently giving away free their sports package to their broadband customers in the UK. That takes deep pockets.

    The only beneficary of this current charade is TV3 who have empty pockets, and an HD studio but not an HD channel. Back OT.


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  • #102
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    Market A = FTA Market
    Market B = PayTV Market

    One wonders why they need to call it A and B does it really save on typing?

    Market A = DTT Multiplex & Analogue Radio Broadcast Transmission and Distribution. Only RTÉNL, who enter into contracts with DTT Multiplex operators and analogue radio stations for broadcast transmission and distribution.

    Market B = DTT Multiplexing (aka the DTT Tariff). Licesened/contracted multiplex operators, currently only RTÉ, in future maybe commercial multiplex operators. They enter into contracts with TV channels for carriage on their multiplexes.

    They could've called it Market 1 and 2 or X and Y, easier than referring to or reading "Market for Wholesale Access to National Terrestrial Broadcast Transmission Services" (Market A) or "Market for Wholesale Access to Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Multiplexing Services" (Market B)
    Elmo wrote: »
    Who else is going to set up such a network in this day and age?

    That's the reason Comreg have decide to put regulations in place.


  • #103
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    That's the reason Comreg have decide to put regulations in place.

    My point being that it didn't take a genius or a 362 page report to figure out that 2rn/rtenl have a monopoly in both markets and that transparency and good regulation is required.

    I don't see the point of this report. And it does not help with the role out of new services such as TV3 HD and even if such a channel did exist their in house morning content doesn't look likely to broadcast from the HD studio.


  • #104
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    My point being that it didn't take a genius or a 362 page report to figure out that 2rn/rtenl have a monopoly in both markets and that transparency and good regulation is required.

    The stakeholders and anyone else interested get their say before the regulations are made by Comreg otherwise we'd see companies heading to the courts arguing over this and that point.


  • #105
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    The stakeholders and anyone else interested get their say before the regulations are made by Comreg otherwise we'd see companies heading to the courts arguing over this and that point.

    The Cush I don't see how you can defend this. The only stakeholder that might bring the state to court has done on several occasions and have made there view very clear (TV3). It is far too late for the regulators to be wasting time on writing reports that conclude very little and much of what we already know. The next publication will be that of the BAI into The commercial muxes. All of this is a waste of time that hobbles the infrastructure, prevent additional audience choice and panders to the status quo.


  • #106
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    The next publication will be that of the BAI into The commercial muxes.

    That'll be an internal report for the BAI and Dept of Comms, I don't think we'll see it published. We'll probably get a press release or a report in the media.

    As regards the the Comreg consultation process on the transmission market I found it and the submissions from the stakeholders an interesting read, before Comreg/odtr this was all done behind closed doors and if we were lucky we read about it in the newspapers.


  • #107
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    its the same auld stuff from the BAI. Appoint consultants pay them a few hundred grand, advertise for Expressions of interest and then it will all fall down. If setanta want 5 channels on DTT it will cost them a small fortune going on that rate card and wont be worth their while. meanwhile in the real world everyone else will have moved on to the next generation of tv.....


  • #108
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    In relation to TV 2RN could buy the setanta package and encypt on Mux 2 and Setanta could sell the STBs/Pay. The mux is already set up 2RN would have the services pay for by the public. Though it is highly unlikely that 2RN would be let.

    I envisage a real decision by 2015, if we are lucky.


  • #109
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    In relation to TV 2RN could buy the setanta package and encypt on Mux 2 and Setanta could sell the STBs/Pay. The mux is already set up 2RN would have the services pay for by the public. Though it is highly unlikely that 2RN would be let.

    I envisage a real decision by 2015, if we are lucky.

    The PSB muxes are required to carry FTA services and the Saorview spec doesn't require Saorview STBs to include a CI slot or on board CAS. Also there has been no Irish pay-DTT STB spec since Boxer withdrew from the process.

    Can't see Setanta selling or the public buying another box for a few extra channels.

    MMDS closing down in a few years could spark UPC interest in DTT.


  • #110
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    The PSB muxes are required to carry FTA services and the Saorview spec doesn't require Saorview STBs to include a CI slot or on board CAS. Also there has been no Irish pay-DTT STB spec since Boxer withdrew from the process.

    Can't see Setanta selling or the public buying another box for a few extra channels.

    MMDS closing down in a few years could spark UPC interest in DTT.

    Perhaps the regulator should have asked that UPC switch off MMDS and replace with DTT along with Analogue switch off.

    Suppose we are getting futher away from this topic:-

    Which is more suitable MMDS or DTT? How many MMDS masts does UPC have and can those masts be used for DTT?


  • #111
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Elmo wrote: »
    Suppose we are getting futher away from this topic:-

    Indeed, I'm reviewing the last fifteen posts and I've seen TV3 mentioned once (hint, hint)


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  • #112
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    Perhaps the regulator should have asked that UPC switch off MMDS and replace with DTT along with Analogue switch off.

    Suppose we are getting futher away from this topic:-

    Which is more suitable MMDS or DTT? How many MMDS masts does UPC have and can those masts be used for DTT?

    Noting icdg's comment above I've started a new thread in this forum in reply to your post.


  • #113
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »
    Noting icdg's comment above I've started a new thread in this forum in reply to your post.


    ... or even two!


  • #114
    ftakeith
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ftakeith


    TV3HD, rte1hd might happen on the 24/10/13, 1 year since DSO


  • #115
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    ftakeith wrote: »
    TV3HD, rte1hd might happen on the 24/10/13, 1 year since DSO

    Might.... Look back at the stipulations put on RTÉ by Minister Carey

    RTEjr and nn to move to mix 2 along with RTE TWO HD. Changes to RTE NN for phase two.

    Then TG4HD given support only to be left on a pay platform.


  • #116
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    TV3 HD will not happen on Saorview as TV3 will have to pay for it, but it might be on Sky and UPC first. Oireachtias TV has launched but not on the Goverment-owned platform, Saorview.

    RTE are not allowed to run RTE 3/Plus for political reasons.

    BAI/Comreg will not make a decision on transmission charges because then TV3 will have to pay them.

    So UPC get OTV and RTE pay for TV3's transmission charges, but they are not allowed to run their own channels without political interference.

    What a wonderful world.


  • #117
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,057 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    Might.... Look back at the stipulations put on RTÉ by Minister Carey

    RTEjr and nn to move to mix 2 along with RTE TWO HD.

    This didn't happen as set down in the Ministerial Decision and may not happen in future. As was pointed out here previously if RTÉ's channels were split between the 2 muxes Aertel would have to be duplicated on the second mux, taking up valuable space.


  • #118
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    TV3 HD will not happen on Saorview as TV3 will have to pay for it, but it might be on Sky and UPC first. Oireachtias TV has launched but not on the Goverment-owned platform, Saorview.

    RTE are not allowed to run RTE 3/Plus for political reasons.

    BAI/Comreg will not make a decision on transmission charges because then TV3 will have to pay them.

    So UPC get OTV and RTE pay for TV3's transmission charges, but they are not allowed to run their own channels without political interference.

    With little movement by TV3 on HD Broadcasting I don't see them doing a deal with UPC or Sky.

    UPC also get TG4 HD.


  • #119
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    TV3 will 'allow' their HD channel onto Sky or UPC as long as its for free imho.


  • #120
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    TV3 will 'allow' their HD channel onto Sky or UPC as long as its for free imho.
    Agree 100%, i'd nearly put money on it ;) .. TV3 will not pay sky nor I think should they.


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  • #121
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Agree 100%, i'd nearly put money on it ;) .. TV3 will not pay sky nor I think should they.

    But they should pay 2RN (RTE NL) for Saorview, and it should be a condition of all broadcasters in the state to broadcast on Saorview.

    (... and pay transmission charges!)


This discussion has been closed.
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