I need feminism because...

Legs.Eleven · 19-08-2013 07:00PM

I was a victim of these double standards in my teens and although the circumstances of my situation were very different (all based on a rumour based on a lie - I chose the wrong guy to "shift"), I was bullied for 3 years solid from the ages of 14 - 16 while the guy in question was a legend and "the man". My life was a misery for those 3 years and I've never really got over it completely. I was so undeserving of the physical and mental bullying I was subjected to everyday in every single place I went to from my front door to inside my classroom. It got so bad that someone wrote "slut" on my parent's house and I had to get up in the middle of the night and paint over it. It was a really horrible period of my life. I didn't deserve any of the ****e I put up with and I can't imagine how I would've coped if the bullying was taken online. I can't say for sure that I would be sitting here today writing this post.

I hope this girl has the strength and support to get her through this. She made a stupid, drunken mistake but the level of bullying she is already being subjected to by complete strangers, by adults who should know better, really distresses me and I hope she doesn't do anything rash. I really pity her and hope she'll be okay. She absolutely doesn't deserve it and those people who uploaded that photo are absolute scum of the earth.

starling · 19-08-2013 07:13PM

Am I missing something or are the people uploading the pics not engaged in disseminating child porn? Like surely there is a legal basis on which to stop the spread of these photos.
Anyway yeah, this whole SG thing is making me so depressed, that poor girl is being called all sorts of horrible and misogynistic words because everyone thinks they have a right to judge her for liking sex. So fúcking angry right now.

starling · 19-08-2013 07:19PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I was a victim of these double standards in my teens and although the circumstances of my situation were very different (all based on a rumour based on a lie - I chose the wrong guy to "shift"), I was bullied for 3 years solid from the ages of 14 - 16 while the guy in question was a legend and "the man". My life was a misery for those 3 years and I've never really got over it completely. I was so undeserving of the physical and mental bullying I was subjected to everyday in every single place I went to from my front door to inside my classroom. It got so bad that someone wrote "slut" on my parent's house and I had to get up in the middle of the night and paint over it. It was a really horrible period of my life. I didn't deserve any of the ****e I put up with and I can't imagine how I would've coped if the bullying was taken online. I can't say for sure that I would be sitting here today writing this post.

I hope this girl has the strength and support to get her through this. She made a stupid, drunken mistake but the level of bullying she is already being subjected to by complete strangers, by adults who should know better, really distresses me and I hope she doesn't do anything rash. I really pity her and hope she'll be okay. She absolutely doesn't deserve it and those people who uploaded that photo are absolute scum of the earth.

What happened to you was awful Legs, I had a fairly similar experience although it didn't descend into actual bullying. But to quote the author of this excellent piece "Defending the girl by saying she made a mistake is falling into the trap of denying women can have sexual desire, can want to act outside the normal heteronormative standards that strangle at birth any sensible debate about sex."

Like we don't know the girl but unless she was being coerced in some way she chose to do this and we can't automatically say she made a mistake, that's just a nicer way of saying she did something "wrong."

19-08-2013 07:24PM

starling wrote: »

What happened to you was awful Legs, I had a fairly similar experience although it didn't descend into actual bullying. But to quote the author of this excellent piece "Defending the girl by saying she made a mistake is falling into the trap of denying women can have sexual desire, can want to act outside the normal heteronormative standards that strangle at birth any sensible debate about sex."

Like we don't know the girl but unless she was being coerced in some way she chose to do this and we can't automatically say she made a mistake, that's just a nicer way of saying she did something "wrong."

I'd assume the 'mistake' referred to was in underestimating the likelihood of being photographed and having the images live forever on the 'net rather than any aspect of her behaviour.

Although I'm not comfortable with her behaviour in performing sex acts publicly, if I'm honest. That is, of course, my issue and not hers.

19-08-2013 07:26PM

She may have chosen, but she's not an adult and doesn't quite yet have that capability of looking forward to the possible effects, speaking very generally about teens. Doing it in such a public place was a mistake, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with women having desire and the two should not be conflated. It also certainly does not mean she deserves any of the bullying

19-08-2013 07:27PM

Mod

Guys, I know you are only doing so in a positive light, but we cannot discuss the incident which is being referred in the last few posts. Please see feedback forum for further information.

Thanks.

Legs.Eleven · 19-08-2013 07:27PM

Not to play the mod here, guys but maybe we should leave the discussion there. :-/

19-08-2013 07:30PM

Oh sorry ok

starling · 19-08-2013 07:38PM

^^^ Yeah we should probably leave it there although just to say Bluewolf I do take your point about conflating freedom of choice with teenage decision making skills

iwantmydinner · 20-08-2013 09:53AM

Yeah, we just... we definitely just need to stand up for our girls and women. I don't care how many people tell me I should be a 'humanist' rather than a feminist. Girls and women still, STILL, get such a raw deal it makes me want to explode.

Grimebox · 20-08-2013 10:34AM

Morag wrote: »

I honestly hope that the dept of Public Prosecutions get involves and we seen a massive amounts of charges related to this for those who have shared the pictures.
The Public needs to learn that they are traceable online and there are consequences.

Support SOPA next time it comes around in that case

Catari Jaguar · 20-08-2013 03:40PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Yeah, we just... we definitely just need to stand up for our girls and women. I don't care how many people tell me I should be a 'humanist' rather than a feminist. Girls and women still, STILL, get such a raw deal it makes me want to explode.

That's exactly how I feel. Sure there are a lot of "first world problems" in the everyday sexism you encounter thread that can lead a lot of people to think it's wimminz getting offended for the sake of it and blah blah "well men have to put up with xyz too.." but as long as there are atrocities like acid attacks all over the developing world (80% female), rapes especially in India & tear gassing of anti-rape protesters, abortion of female babies in China/India, violence against women/ "missing" women, girls not receiving an education in many ethnic communities, bride buying & child brides (38,000 children a day!), prostitution & trafficking, women being unable to legally represent themselves etc. then I really think it's unacceptable to downgrade feminism.

Until ALL women are treated to a just standard of living and acceptance then there should be ZERO tolerance of any anti-feminist views/ sexism, no matter how small. If people think that men and women are treated equally they really need to open their eyes to the world around them.

Morag · 20-08-2013 04:21PM

http://irishstudentleftonline.wordpress.com/2013/08/20/mixing-moralism-with-medicine-i-was-refused-the-pill-from-my-family-doctor/

Because we still have drs who think grown adult women can not make thier own contraceptive choices.

iwantmydinner · 20-08-2013 04:56PM

Morag wrote: »

http://irishstudentleftonline.wordpress.com/2013/08/20/mixing-moralism-with-medicine-i-was-refused-the-pill-from-my-family-doctor/

Because we still have drs who think grown adult women can not make thier own contraceptive choices.

Sweet suffering jaysus...

fits · 20-08-2013 05:32PM

Certain GPs are incredibly unprofessional. Its really very common and not just when it comes to contraception. A very conservative profession if you ask me.

Jessibelle · 20-08-2013 06:28PM

Morag wrote: »

http://irishstudentleftonline.wordpress.com/2013/08/20/mixing-moralism-with-medicine-i-was-refused-the-pill-from-my-family-doctor/

Because we still have drs who think grown adult women can not make thier own contraceptive choices.

Just on this: the G.P is perfectly entitled to refuse to issue any form of contraception if it goes against their own moral beliefs. Same as any Dr, and the same as if they disagreed with issuing sleeping pills, antidepressants or any form of medication, or indeed performing any medical action. What they are not allowed to do, is refuse, and not provide the patient with information of a practitioner that will provide them with the services required (so long as they're legal). The sanctimonious preaching however, well that seems to have been just thrown in for free :mad:

20-08-2013 06:48PM

If a GP refuses to prescribe medication on moral grounds, do they still charge for the consultation?

I understand people have to be allowed follow their conscience, but if people are refused service, and aren't seen immediately by a more agreeable colleague, it's immoral that they should have to pay for the consultation.

Jessibelle · 20-08-2013 06:54PM

Candie wrote: »

If a GP refuses to prescribe medication on moral grounds, do they still charge for the consultation?

I understand people have to be allowed follow their conscience, but if people are refused service, and aren't seen immediately by a more agreeable colleague, it's immoral that they should have to pay for the consultation.

Actually, that I don't know

. I'd assume no, but that's not to say it's not done. I personally would feel very uncomfortable charging someone if I was refusing them a service, but some might view it as you're paying for their time rather than their service, if that makes sense? I just know it's something reiterated to us ad naseum in school, if we're not personally comfortable with a prescription or an action, morally or ethically, we can refuse to do it, but if it's legal, then we have to recommend another practitioner, if they're known to us, that will provide said service.

iwantmydinner · 20-08-2013 07:15PM

Jessibelle wrote: »

Just on this: the G.P is perfectly entitled to refuse to issue any form of contraception if it goes against their own moral beliefs. Same as any Dr, and the same as if they disagreed with issuing sleeping pills, antidepressants or any form of medication, or indeed performing any medical action.

I know it's the law, and I know it's a very nuanced issue, but in relation to contraception I think it's a load of bo**ocks.

Jessibelle · 20-08-2013 07:45PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

I know it's the law, and I know it's a very nuanced issue, but in relation to contraception I think it's a load of bo**ocks.

Perhaps (and I happen to agree with you in this instance), but it's there for a reason, and some people genuinely do have a conscientious objection to contraception. Even if you take the religious aspect of it out, I'd know a few practitioners who won't prescribe it because they think as a medication, it does more harm than good. Oddly, most that I know that won't prescribe for whatever reason, are female and not exactly old country dr's either.

iwantmydinner · 20-08-2013 08:05PM

Jessibelle wrote: »

Oddly, most that I know that won't prescribe for whatever reason, are female and not exactly old country dr's either.

That actually doesn't surprise me in the slightest, not exactly sure why, but it doesn't.

nesf · 20-08-2013 08:22PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

I know it's the law, and I know it's a very nuanced issue, but in relation to contraception I think it's a load of bo**ocks.

Actually, no. If a young woman went into her GP and asked for the pill right. Say she was asked are you in a long term relationship and if not do you still plan on using condoms whilst having sex. If she answers no to both of these then no sane doctor should prescribe on public health grounds.

I do wonder if the woman in the article was asked about condoms and said it was none of his business.

YumCha · 20-08-2013 08:56PM

nesf wrote: »

Actually, no. If a young woman went into her GP and asked for the pill right. Say she was asked are you in a long term relationship and if not do you still plan on using condoms whilst having sex. If she answers no to both of these then no sane doctor should prescribe on public health grounds.

I do wonder if the woman in the article was asked about condoms and said it was none of his business.

Um, what? How is asking those questions okay? And how is denying any woman the pill in the interests of public health?

clairefontaine · 20-08-2013 09:03PM

YumCha wrote: »

Um, what? How is asking those questions okay? And how is denying any woman the pill in the interests of public health?

Well if your 45 and a heavy smoker I could understand.

Morag · 20-08-2013 09:04PM

YumCha wrote: »

Um, what? How is asking those questions okay? And how is denying any woman the pill in the interests of public health?

Cos slutty women spread STIs

:rolleyes:

20-08-2013 09:09PM

What, women who don't use condoms should definitely have kids with randomers?

Malari · 20-08-2013 09:15PM

Yes, and lesbians who are not in long-term relationships and don't use condoms should never be prescribed the pill either...

YumCha · 20-08-2013 09:18PM

bluewolf wrote: »

What, women who don't use condoms should definitely have kids with randomers?

Obviously - as punishment for their fornication... Fornication is the leading cause of unwanted pregnancies in Ireland don't you forget! :rolleyes:

nesf · 20-08-2013 09:55PM

Morag wrote: »

Cos slutty women spread STIs

:rolleyes:

People who have unprotected sex contract more STIs than people who don't. Are a couple having a one night stand more or less likely to have unprotected sex if the woman is on the pill? Balance that against the risk of unwanted pregnancies.

Or go on making out that I'm going for an anti-woman dig if you like.

iwantmydinner · 20-08-2013 10:01PM

nesf wrote: »

People who have unprotected sex contract more STIs than people who don't. Are a couple having a one night stand more or less likely to have unprotected sex if the woman is on the pill? Balance that against the risk of unwanted pregnancies.

Or go on making out that I'm going for an anti-woman dig if you like.

Yeah, I have no idea what kind of logic you're using here.

I need feminism because...

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