Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1

iptba · 16-08-2013 03:19PM

Guyanachronism wrote: »

Does getting abuse for not confirming to a masculine ideal count as a sexism?

I mean for example if a guy has long hair, wears skinny jeans etc. and he gets abuse shouted at him, you know the usual sissy, queer etc.

It is abuse that is based on the guy not conforming to some vague masculine idea, people demanding that he conform to some vague gender stereotype. So since it's based on his gender, does it count as sexism?

Because that would be the most prevalient form of sexism that I would personally experience and see other men experience.

It's an interesting point.

Shaming of men can be done to get them to do something e.g. "man up"/"be a man", etc.

Amirani · 16-08-2013 03:20PM

Guyanachronism wrote: »

Does getting abuse for not confirming to a masculine ideal count as a sexism?

I mean for example if a guy has long hair, wears skinny jeans etc. and he gets abuse shouted at him, you know the usual sissy, queer etc.

It is abuse that is based on the guy not conforming to some vague masculine idea, people demanding that he conform to some vague gender stereotype. So since it's based on his gender, does it count as sexism?

Because that would be the most prevalient form of sexism that I would personally experience and see other men experience.

I would absolutely consider that sexism. It's on the lesser scale in that the person isn't actively been discriminated against and refused freedoms that the other sex is entitled to, but it's still sexism and its still wrong.

iDave · 16-08-2013 03:22PM

iptba wrote: »

The coverage also tends not to highlight the variations across genders - it doesn't tend to highlight that males do tend to do better at the top level in maths, for example, possibly because that would stray from the message that girls can do equally as well or better than boys.

or

Source for Stats: http://examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=st&sc=r13

And if you're heading for university, you generally have to do three languages (incl. English) and one mathematical subject.

3 language subjects versus 1 mathematical. You effectively have to do 3 languages for LC if you wanna go anywhere. Eng and Ire are mandatory and then something foreign if you want to go to 3rd level. Only 1 mathematical is mandatory. This is obviously going to tip the scale in girls favour

iptba · 16-08-2013 03:28PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

One that particularly annoyed me today was the in the Irish Times:

"Even in physics – often the preserve of boys – the 2013 class defied tradition: 84.7 per cent of higher level girls achieved an honour, while only 70.4 per cent of boys managed it."

Despite the fact that far more males sat the exam (3589 versus 1243). A higher percentage of males got As and Bs. They conveniently include C grades as it adds a headline sort of figure.

I really dislike the casual use of "GIRLS OUTPERFORM BOYS". Perhaps on average they did, but females didn't just en masse get better grades than boys. Differences in average performance over such a large and diverse group of people is completely irrelevant.

It does get a little bit more complicated when one moves away from core subjects, as one can't be sure people didn't do it for aptitude reasons, but I take your point about it being very questionable to say girls outperformed boys at physics.

I remember when we did aptitude tests in school to help us choose college courses, careers, etc., we were told that the percentiles were gender specific because males and females did better in different ones. So for example, boys did better* than girls in mechanical reasoning and 3-D reasoning/similar, the sort of skills useful for physics. So it could be the case that if everyone did it, more boys than girls would do well.

*not sure if anything was said about maths, but L. Cert figures, for example, suggest a difference there, and college-level physics involves a lot of maths (I've heard they've taken a lot of the maths out of the L. Cert physics course over the years).

clairefontaine · 16-08-2013 04:17PM

iDave wrote: »

3 language subjects versus 1 mathematical. You effectively have to do 3 languages for LC if you wanna go anywhere. Eng and Ire are mandatory and then something foreign if you want to go to 3rd level. Only 1 mathematical is mandatory. This is obviously going to tip the scale in girls favour

That's very interesting, never noticed that.

But I think it's the same in then US with college admissions, mostly girls dominate, and its not the same criteria in more languages, less math.

GalwayGuy2 · 18-08-2013 07:44PM

Hmm, I laughed at this, but I can't be the only one who thinks it's a little bit sexist.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=591673317550522&set=a.362994667085056.106328.214469521937572&type=1&theater

laoch na mona · 23-08-2013 12:19PM

No

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Hmm, I laughed at this, but I can't be the only one who thinks it's a little bit sexist.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=591673317550522&set=a.362994667085056.106328.214469521937572&type=1&theater

ya its pretty sexist. Its the classic women are crazy and hormonal line

Henry9 · 23-08-2013 12:44PM

laoch na mona wrote: »

ya its pretty sexist. Its the classic women are crazy and hormonal line

They should probably stop using it as a defence in court so.

Panthro · 23-08-2013 01:34PM

maybe

Yellow121 wrote: »

I'm sexist against kittins too.

Mod note:
CUT OUT THE CRAP.

Henry9 · 23-08-2013 01:46PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Quite a few feminist groups have been quite vocal about supporting women being prosecuted for violent acts against men, who are using this defence. So rather than cringing at it, they're supporting the use of something that they otherwise would claim is a sexist stereotype.

How would you explain this paradox, if not as another example of the oft quoted complaint by men's rights groups that feminism is more than happy to have it's cake and eat it where it comes to sexism?

Exactly, and it's their reinforcing of the stereotype which actually hurts their constituency in other areas.

Amirani · 23-08-2013 02:35PM

Henry9 wrote: »

So what's this 'Gender Pay Gap' I keep hearing so much about?
Isn't that a 'difference in average performance over such a large and diverse group of people'?

No, it's not. You seem to be misunderstanding the issues around the so-called "gender pay gap". It doesn't relate to average male pay .v. average female pay, rather their respective average pay while doing the same job.

Henry9 · 23-08-2013 02:43PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

No, it's not. You seem to be misunderstanding the issues around the so-called "gender pay gap". It doesn't relate to average male pay .v. average female pay, rather their respective average pay while doing the same job.

No it doesn't. It should relate to that but it most definitely doesn't.
It should also account for differences in experience in productivity and experience.
Guess what, it doesn't do that either.
For evidence, see any feminist lobby commentary around the release of the CSO figures.

awec · 23-08-2013 03:20PM

This post has been deleted.

iptba · 23-08-2013 03:31PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

No, it's not. You seem to be misunderstanding the issues around the so-called "gender pay gap". It doesn't relate to average male pay .v. average female pay, rather their respective average pay while doing the same job.

No it doesn't. But your post shows how this is frequently not made sufficiently clear.

tipperaryguy · 26-08-2013 11:41AM

Anything in relation to kids. The whole male babysitter thing and knowing in the back of your head people are sort of suspicious of you when you're around kids...remember one time being asked to leave a playground when i had gone there to sit down and text because there wasnt anywhere else with a bench :mad: the whole media storm over pedophile priests (not that they dont deserve it) and so forth has made every man a pervert in some peoples eyes.

py2006 · 26-08-2013 12:49PM

That isn't the first time I have heard that story about men being asked to leave parks or areas near where children are.

Arawn · 26-08-2013 12:56PM

maybe

py2006 wrote: »

That isn't the first time I have heard that story about men being asked to leave parks or areas near where children are.

Some planes refuse to let men sit by kids. I remember in England a guy was asked to stop taking pictures of a his kid on one those little rides and then asked to leave the store

tipperaryguy · 26-08-2013 01:26PM

Arawn wrote: »

Some planes refuse to let men sit by kids. I remember in England a guy was asked to stop taking pictures of a his kid on one those little rides and then asked to leave the store

There was one case i heard recently in the US where a father was walking around a local park with this young daughter , and the police felt ,purely as he was a man with a child, they needed to stop up beside him and ask him where he was going etcetc..

iptba · 26-08-2013 01:32PM

Bookstore apologizes after man claims he was ejected for being alone in children's section

Published June 04, 2012

NewsCore

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. – Barnes & Noble has apologized after a senior citizen said staff at one of the retail giant's Arizona stores ejected him because he was on his own in the children's area.

Omar Amin claimed a store worker told him a female shopper had complained he was in the children's area in the store in Scottsdale, The Arizona Republic reported.

The 73-year-old, who was alone at the time, said he was in the store to buy books for his two grandchildren, who live in Wisconsin.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/04/arizona-man-claims-was-ejected-from-bookstore-for-being-alone-in-children/#ixzz2d587BiAg

Rev Hellfire · 26-08-2013 01:33PM

tipperaryguy wrote: »

There was one case i heard recently in the US where a father was walking around a local park with this young daughter , and the police felt ,purely as he was a man with a child, they needed to stop up beside him and ask him where he was going etcetc..

Just like the Will Self incident recently: will-self-furious-over-paedophile-police-stop

Male = Guilty until proven innocent.

iptba · 26-08-2013 01:44PM

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Just like the Will Self incident recently: will-self-furious-over-paedophile-police-stop

Male = Guilty until proven innocent.

Also, a related problem is that mud is more likely to stick.

GalwayGuy2 · 26-08-2013 03:43PM

Quick question: If any of the past few quotes, people thinking someone is a pedophile, happened to you, would you just try and forget about and not create trouble, or would you complain about it?

Personally, I'd just want it do die away. Even if you are completely innocent, hell even if everybody believes you are innocent, all of your actions will be seen through the lens of "Is he, or is he not, a pedophile."

It makes you wonder how common this actually is.

cantdecide · 26-08-2013 04:54PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Quick question: If any of the past few quotes, people thinking someone is a pedophile, happened to you, would you just try and forget about and not create trouble, or would you complain about it?

I'd be furious but I'd suck it up. There's nothing you can do. Being tarred with the creep , weirdo or sicko brush is something you won't ever shake off even if you can prove your innocence.

Pawwed Rig · 26-08-2013 05:18PM

There is no way I would 'suck it up'. And anyone who vocalised it within earshot of anyone else would be getting a letter from my solicitor fairly quickly.

Panthro · 28-08-2013 09:15AM

maybe

awec wrote: »

Off topic posts deleted.

No more discussion of feminism in this thread as per the multiple warnings already posted earlier.

Warnings, infractions and bans have been handed out. If you don't want to receive any more get back on topic.

This is a thread for men to post about instances of sexism they feel they have experienced. Nothing more.

Reminder one and all.
Oh, and just a reminder to those of you that need it, if a post is off topic could you please just report it and not respond to it on thread?
Cheers

um7y1h83ge06nx · 28-08-2013 03:19PM

If it happened me I'd sue left,right and centre.

Here is a terrible one that BA was involved in:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7957982/British-Airways-changes-discriminatory-seating-policy-for-men.html

A general article on the issue:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuagans/2012/08/14/who-can-sit-next-to-children-on-flights/

Caonima · 01-09-2013 03:25AM

Back in 2006, I was apartment hunting for a place near South Circular road, somewhere convenient for college. Viewed a really nice apartment which had 2 girls living there, and another moving out. There was 2 other boys and a girl there also viewing the place (which I hate; should be only one person at a time). Anyway, the only girl got the room - the other girl who was showing the place off texted me later that day to tell me. Thought I said all the right things when I was there, but there you have it; some things just feel inevitable. The next day, the girl who had shown the gaff to me texted me again and said the girl who they chose had found another place so wasn't moving in, and would I still be interested in the room. I said no... felt I had been hard done by.

Liam McPoyle · 01-09-2013 07:41AM

No

2 girls living together didn't want to share a house with a bloke they didn't know.

I fail to see how that's sexist.

Now if they said we don't want to share with you because you are a bloke and might rape us then that's one thing but it doesn't sound like that.

When I've been in places before and we were looking for housemates then the existing housemates would come to a consensus what the preferred option would be, either male or female.

Nothing sexist about it, just an effort to keep the status quo and to keep it gender balanced.

I personally feel that some men go out of their way to get offended by things in an effort to try and "balance the books" of discrimination.

Yes, some of the things posted in this thread are out and out sexism, and pretty vile things at that, but some of them are a big stretch IMO.

py2006 · 01-09-2013 08:38AM

Coleman Slawski wrote: »

but some of them are a big stretch IMO.

You have to realise that it is the principle as well. If a situation is sexist towards one gender it must be sexist towards another regardless of whether offence is caused.

GalwayGuy2 · 01-09-2013 09:12AM

Now if they said we don't want to share with you because you are a bloke and might rape us then that's one thing but it doesn't sound like that.

I agree with what you wrote. But a quick question, wouldn't female drivers for females who are drunk be horrendously sexist?

I must admit, a lot of people, including myself, are falling into the trap of calling things misandrist that people call misogynist. The problem is, some people call everything misogynistic either to win an argument, or to try and teach men the error of their ways.

Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

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Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1