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Am I the only one...

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135

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    #62
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    OP

    Are you for real?

    Go on to carzone, look up a Delorean, buy it and head back to medieval times.


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    #63
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,411 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....that presumes that an "administration" would act in a totally fair and correct fashion.

    It's the op's theory but there would have to be policy makers somewhere along the line and then you have the problem of who chooses the policy makers and the policies.


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    #64
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,712 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    ...that can't understand this:

    If I want to be an airline pilot, I need to train hard and complete the appropriate exams to ground theory and air law.

    If I want to be a medical doctor, I need my primary degree in Medicine and relevant experience.

    If I want to be a HGV driver, I need to have the relevant license to drive one.

    But...

    If I want to run a country, I'm already fully qualified but just need to be nice to a few thousand people for them to trust me to do so.

    In other words, this is the only job in the world which requires no qualifications (in terms of responsibility) and it's the most important job in terms of responsibility.

    My suggestions?

    Anyone who wants to be a TD should have an honours degree in a relevant discipline, as well as pass a series of gruelling exams in economics and other relevant disciplines.

    Abolish any party whip system and abolish the concept of party politics.

    Impose a fixed wage of €30,000 maximum.

    Give more power to the Senate to act as a check amongst other important new roles and functions.

    Running a country should not be up to the people voting in whoever they like - the candidates should be well educated and show they can somewhat manage.

    Popular vote for any random candidate fails and we realise this every second we see dregs such as Mick Wallace parading around the Dáil.

    The floor is now open to AH.

    Am I the only one .... who can't understand this bit.

    If there are a series of gruelling exams to determine the suitability of candidates to run the country why would you then need elections? Simply give the job to the 160 people with the best marks. Why risk the people electing someone who got only 60% in the exams over someone with 95%?

    Also would there be a need for a Senate? Would the best qualified set of politicians in history not be able to make decisions which would not need further scrutiny.

    Have you any plans for local government? Could a person like me who left school at 15 to earn a living not at least aspire to be a humble County Councillor?


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    #65
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    ok, if you had the choice, which one of these 2 candidates would you oppoint as minister for Finance?

    Candidate 1

    Candidate 2


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    #66
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,902 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    donegal_road wrote: »
    ok, if you had the choice, which one of these 2 candidates would you oppoint as minister for Finance?

    Candidate 1

    Candidate 2

    Neither but if it really came to it Noonan.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #67
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    *Appoint* before the grammar nazis get at me..


    You dont mind if I ask you why you would appoint Noonan over Mathews as the minister for finance?


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    #68
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Am I the only one .... who can't understand this bit.

    If there are a series of gruelling exams to determine the suitability of candidates to run the country why would you then need elections? Simply give the job to the 160 people with the best marks. Why risk the people electing someone who got only 60% in the exams over someone with 95%?

    Also would there be a need for a Senate? Would the best qualified set of politicians in history not be able to make decisions which would not need further scrutiny.

    Have you any plans for local government? Could a person like me who left school at 15 to earn a living not at least aspire to be a humble County Councillor?

    No, it's not for the best marks. I'm saying there should be an academic standard for the roles involved in working in a government.

    Yes - my plans extend to local government to the tiniest degree.

    The current method, however long in the tooth it's become, is a failure and should be replaced by a more centralised administrative body in some shape or form. Any step away from the current mess to my system is a step forward, however small a step you take for change.


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    #69
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,712 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    No, it's not for the best marks. I'm saying there should be an academic standard for the roles involved in working in a government.

    Yes - my plans extend to local government to the tiniest degree.

    The current method, however long in the tooth it's become, is a failure and should be replaced by a more centralised administrative body in some shape or form. Any step away from the current mess to my system is a step forward, however small a step you take for change.

    Sort of defeats the purpose then. A candidate who demonstrated a lower academic standard by virtue of worse exam results in a subject or subjects relevant to the expected role could be elected ahead of a superior candidate. This does not accord with your wish to have the best possible people running the country.


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    #70
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    ...that can't understand this:

    If I want to be an airline pilot, I need to train hard and complete the appropriate exams to ground theory and air law.

    If I want to be a medical doctor, I need my primary degree in Medicine and relevant experience.

    If I want to be a HGV driver, I need to have the relevant license to drive one.

    But...

    If I want to run a country, I'm already fully qualified but just need to be nice to a few thousand people for them to trust me to do so.

    In other words, this is the only job in the world which requires no qualifications (in terms of responsibility) and it's the most important job in terms of responsibility.

    My suggestions?

    Anyone who wants to be a TD should have an honours degree in a relevant discipline, as well as pass a series of gruelling exams in economics and other relevant disciplines.

    Abolish any party whip system and abolish the concept of party politics.

    Impose a fixed wage of €30,000 maximum.

    Give more power to the Senate to act as a check amongst other important new roles and functions.

    Running a country should not be up to the people voting in whoever they like - the candidates should be well educated and show they can somewhat manage.

    Popular vote for any random candidate fails and we realise this every second we see dregs such as Mick Wallace parading around the Dáil.

    The floor is now open to AH.

    Politicians don't run the country, Civil Servants do. Politicians are responsible for oversight and for ensuring decisions of government are politically acceptable.


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    #71
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Every party should have to put forward canditates with experience in their relevant fields in the departments in which they are due to pursue in government.

    i.e a qualified Doctor or surgeon with a minimum of a certain amount of years experience should be minister of health.
    Not a school teacher.Or somebody with a B.A (im looking at you mrs.harney)

    Increase the wages to attract the right people.


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    #72
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,902 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    donegal_road wrote: »
    *Appoint* before the grammar nazis get at me..


    You dont mind if I ask you why you would appoint Noonan over Mathews as the minister for finance?

    He is an experienced politician who understands government and how civil servants work.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #73
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for people to justify why we should accept that the most important job in the country should require no qualifications.

    People can criticise, mock, jeer my suggestions all they want, but if they can't justify the current system then they should either come up with a solution to it itself or don't bother trying.

    Because third level education doesn't make people any more competent.

    For every intelligent graduate there are two educated idiots.


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    #74
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,902 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Every party should have to put forward canditates with experience in their relevant fields in the departments in which they are due to pursue in government.

    i.e a qualified Doctor or surgeon with a minimum of a certain amount of years experience should be minister of health.
    Not a school teacher.Or somebody with a B.A (im looking at you mrs.harney)

    Increase the wages to attract the right people.

    I'd rather have Nye Bevan with no health qualifications than James Reilly anyday.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #75
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    mango salsa wrote: »
    He is an experienced politician who understands government and how civil servants work.

    but Peter Mathews is a qualified Chartered Accountant, and has worked for Coopers & Lybrand and ICC Bank... he was a consultant on banking and finance with 30+ professional years experience.

    May I use the following analogy...

    a plane is in severe difficulty because the pilot has had a seizure. Among the passengers there is an experienced pilot with over 30,000 hours flying time under his belt.

    The only people on board with parachutes are some teachers. They convince the other passengers that they can land the plane safely with the mentioned pilot as one of their team. After a while it transpires that they have given the pilot a seat behind them in the cockpit, and are taking orders from air traffic control, and are ignoring the advice of the experienced pilot, and are clearly going against his advice.

    How would you feel as a passenger?


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    #76
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,902 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    donegal_road wrote: »
    but Peter Mathews is a qualified Chartered Accountant, and has worked for Coopers & Lybrand and ICC Bank... he was a consultant on banking and finance with 30+ professional years experience.
    But almost no political or government experience

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #77
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    mango salsa wrote: »
    But almost no political or government experience

    how much political or government experience do the members of the Troika (who are calling the shots) have?


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    #78
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    i.e a qualified Doctor or surgeon with a minimum of a certain amount of years experience should be minister of health.
    Not a school teacher.Or somebody with a B.A (im looking at you mrs.harney).
    Why not a nurse, or a paramedic worker? Perhaps a laboratory technician or even a porter. Or are these jobs not important in the health service? Politics creeping in already.

    What's wrong with a BA by the way? A minister for health's job isn't to diagnose and treat sick people.
    donegal_road wrote: »
    but Peter Mathews is a qualified Chartered Accountant, and has worked for Coopers & Lybrand and ICC Bank... he was a consultant on banking and finance with 30+ professional years experience.

    May I use the following analogy...
    No, because quite frankly it is the stupidest analogy I've ever seen.


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    #79
    Nemeses
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    The bottom line is..

    Where do I apply to become the next best thing for this country then?


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    #80
    Weevil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Weevil


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    ...that can't understand this:

    If I want to be an airline pilot, I need to train hard and complete the appropriate exams to ground theory and air law.

    If I want to be a medical doctor, I need my primary degree in Medicine and relevant experience.

    If I want to be a HGV driver, I need to have the relevant license to drive one.

    But...

    If I want to run a country, I'm already fully qualified but just need to be nice to a few thousand people for them to trust me to do so.

    In other words, this is the only job in the world which requires no qualifications (in terms of responsibility) and it's the most important job in terms of responsibility.

    My suggestions?

    Anyone who wants to be a TD should have an honours degree in a relevant discipline, as well as pass a series of gruelling exams in economics and other relevant disciplines.

    Abolish any party whip system and abolish the concept of party politics.

    Impose a fixed wage of €30,000 maximum.

    Give more power to the Senate to act as a check amongst other important new roles and functions.

    Running a country should not be up to the people voting in whoever they like - the candidates should be well educated and show they can somewhat manage.

    Popular vote for any random candidate fails and we realise this every second we see dregs such as Mick Wallace parading around the Dáil.

    The floor is now open to AH.
    You've lived up to the standard of your previous posts.Take a bow and f/;k off.


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    #81
    Nemeses
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Weevil wrote: »
    You've lived up to the standard of your previous posts.Take a bow and f/;k off.

    Awh Mr Weevil.. Why so annoyed over it?

    read, comment, move on.

    Works for me anyway. :)


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    #82
    Weevil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Weevil


    Nemeses wrote: »
    Awh Mr Weevil.. Why so annoyed over it?

    read, comment, move on.

    Works for me anyway. :)
    That's what I did.


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    #83
    Nemeses
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Weevil wrote: »
    That's what I did.

    Good man.

    I've got your back..

    Now in return , Vote for me. :pac:


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    #84
    Ambient Occlusion
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Ambient Occlusion


    The principle of democratic meritocracy cannot work with the current political system. We do not directly elect our politicians to their governmental positions and as such qualifications in any specific area are irrelevant.
    Constituency constrictions also inhibit the ability to elect the most 'meritorious' politicians into power because they are not evenly spread around the country.


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    #85
    Weevil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Weevil


    Ambient Occlusion wrote: »
    The principle of democratic meritocracy cannot work with the current political system. We do not directly elect our politicians to their governmental positions and as such qualifications in any specific area are irrelevant.
    Constituency constrictions also inhibit the ability to elect the most 'meritorious' politicians into power because they are not evenly spread around the country.
    You won't get away with that kind of polemic in this country. For a start, you've forgotten to use redundant commas, etc..


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    #86
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    mango salsa wrote: »
    The country isn't a business and shouldn't be run like one!

    I'd have to disagree. I'd rather that it was run as a business, with full accountability, than as a Buddy Buddy club for a select few and their friends.
    mango salsa wrote: »
    But almost no political or government experience

    Experience counts for nothing unless it's used wisely. Peter Matthews has oceans of experience in the world of finance. Noonan has none other than as a Spokesperson and subsequently a Minister for Finance.
    In private industry you use the assets at your disposal to the best of their ability. Why not in Government?
    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Why not a nurse, or a paramedic worker? Perhaps a laboratory technician or even a porter. Or are these jobs not important in the health service? Politics creeping in already.

    What's wrong with a BA by the way? A minister for health's job isn't to diagnose and treat sick people.

    It's not, but experience within an area/industry should be a given in my book. I agree with you that it shouldn't have to be a Doctor with X years of experience etc though.


    No, because quite frankly it is the stupidest analogy I've ever seen.

    You might consider it a stupid analogy but the point behind it is quite valid. You have a guy ( a very principled one at that as far as I can see) that has 30 years experience in the world of finance and you have a schoolteacher. Maybe if they were all allocated as per their relevant life experiences then we wouldn't have to pay for so many damn advisers!!!


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    #87
    Weevil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Weevil


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    I'd have to disagree. I'd rather that it was run as a business, with full accountability, than as a Buddy Buddy club for a select few and their friends.



    Experience counts for nothing unless it's used wisely. Peter Matthews has oceans of experience in the world of finance. Noonan has none other than as a Spokesperson and subsequently a Minister for Finance.
    In private industry you use the assets at your disposal to the best of their ability. Why not in Government?
    What age are you?


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    #88
    kjl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭kjl


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Why should a politician be university educated? To me that is elitism and false assumption that university educated = competent

    Well dropping out of school at 16 doesn't show a lot of competence to me.


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    #89
    Weevil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Weevil


    kjl wrote: »
    Well dropping out of school at 16 doesn't show a lot of competence to me.

    Well, poor punctuation doesn't spell incompetence to me. But that's probably just me.


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    #90
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    Experience counts for nothing unless it's used wisely. Peter Matthews has oceans of experience in the world of finance. Noonan has none other than as a Spokesperson and subsequently a Minister for Finance.
    So does Seán FitzPatrick


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    #91
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Every party should have to put forward canditates with experience in their relevant fields in the departments in which they are due to pursue in government.

    i.e a qualified Doctor or surgeon with a minimum of a certain amount of years experience should be minister of health.
    Not a school teacher.Or somebody with a B.A (im looking at you mrs.harney)

    Increase the wages to attract the right people.

    That was the main reason Prof Brendan Drumm was appointed to the position of HSE chief.

    He was **** at the job.

    Dr James Reilly isn't much better as Minister for Health.


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