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Am I the only one...
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Undertaking the difficult task to improve or obtain a good education will never be "Elitist"....
Actually, a third level degree is out of the financial reaches of the majority of the world's population.
Somebody without money could spend all their free time researching a subject in public libraries, becoming an expert in the field, and yet would be considered "unqualified" based purely on the fact that they did not pay for their education from an accredited university.
How is that not elitist?0 -
Frank Lee Midere wrote: »There are billionaires with no qualifications. Jesus wept with the qualifications.
Yes these are self made men and good luck to them BUT they have not been made responsible for the welfare of the State and 4.5 Million people
Would you go to a GP with no qualifications?
No?
I wonder why
At least Jesus believed he was qualified....0 -
Blisterman wrote: »Actually, a third level degree is out of the financial reaches of the majority of the world's population.
Somebody without money could spend all their free time researching a subject in public libraries, becoming an expert in the field, and yet would be considered "unqualified" based purely on the fact that they did not pay for their education from an accredited university.
How is that not elitist?
The answer to your question is NO!
Ok your first 'argument'.....
We are not talking about the "majority of the worlds population"
This is Ireland calling....
Not all countries get to vote in their governments - we do and therefore should do it responsibly with criteria and set standards
You could try the same argument about the ol' Leaving Certificate - How many of the worlds population get to do that? Is the LC Elitist" No? Why?
And yes even people in developing nations have Universities and do get degrees
Your second 'argument"....
Third level education is a STANDARD of education that has been and continues to achievable by all walks of life
For example take a look at the BTEA - if you wish to accredit your knowledge spent in whatever field you have found yourself....
Getting a third level education is a hard slog, many families send their children to University by means of significant effort - Elitist? NO.
A recognisable standard of education for those to be placed in charge of 4.5 Million people - YES0 -
wretcheddomain wrote: »...that can't understand this:
If I want to run a country, I'm already fully qualified but just need to be nice to a few thousand people for them to trust me to do so.
In other words, this is the only job in the world which requires no qualifications (in terms of responsibility) and it's the most important job in terms of responsibility.
No, if you want to run the country, you've to convince your fellow elected party members that you're the best suited among them. If they get it badly wrong then there is a likelihood that they will be thrown out with you.
It'd be nice if 30-40% of voters could agree and vote on what qualities and experience would make a good TD. Make this known to party selection committees and they'll favour these qualities. But we have all sorts of half baked ideas about what a ministers job involves.
Ministers don't make it obvious to voters what their non-legislative job entails but I'm of the impression that it involves acting as a chairman and facilitating bringing factions to some workable decision, and using the ability to overrule as a last resort.
I've found a lot of ex-teachers received experience in this regard that serves them quite well in this area which helps them to get top posts in the Dail or as directors.
The ability to absorb and process information and viewpoints, analyze for error and falsehood and aggregate this into an overview is what 3rd level education is meant to teach, and what should be valued; an out of date or out of practice industry view might hinder as much as help in this brief.
This view seems to be more prevalent in the UK, while here HR departments appear to demand precisely targeted degrees for a particular spot.
Certainly there are ex FF ministers that are of the opinion that having them chair a private company would be worth tens of thousands per month in the marketplace, and seem to be getting this.0 -
The answer to your question is NO!
Ok your first 'argument'.....
We are not talking about the "majority of the worlds population"
This is Ireland calling....
Not all countries get to vote in their governments - we do and therefore should do it responsibly with criteria and set standards
You could try the same argument about the ol' Leaving Certificate - How many of the worlds population get to do that? Is the LC Elitist" No? Why?
And yes even people in developing nations have Universities and do get degrees
Your second 'argument"....
Third level education is a STANDARD of education that has been and continues to achievable by all walks of life
For example take a look at the BTEA - if you wish to accredit your knowledge spent in whatever field you have found yourself....
Getting a third level education is a hard slog, many families send their children to University by means of significant effort - Elitist? NO.
A recognisable standard of education for those to be placed in charge of 4.5 Million people - YES
A university degree is but one measure of a person's competence, and not a very good one at that, since it generally would have been achieved several decades before a person became the leader of a party.
There are numerous highly intelligent and successful people don't have university degrees: Bill Gates, Sergy Brin, Richard Branson. Do you think the fact they don't have degrees worries the shareholders of Microsoft, Google or Virgin?
In fact, if they had your system in the uk, Winston Churchill wouldn't have qualified to be Prime Minister.0 -
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Blisterman wrote: »A university degree is but one measure of a person's competence, and not a very good one at that, since it generally would have been achieved several decades before a person became the leader of a party.
There are numerous highly intelligent and successful people don't have university degrees: Bill Gates, Sergy Brin, Richard Branson. Do you think the fact they don't have degrees worries the shareholders of Microsoft, Google or Virgin?
In fact, if they had your system in the uk, Winston Churchill wouldn't have qualified to be Prime Minister.
If you return to my first listing of suggested requirements for wannabe politicians and not just leaders of any specific political affiliation - you will note that a third Level Education is just one of the criteria listed.
Do check...
As I have stated a third level degree is a set standard of education - hence we have primary, secondary and third level - I presume you have no objections to potential candidates being able to actually read and write - both skills learned decades before individuals enter into their working lives?•Relevant third level qualification
• Relevant experience or career
• No criminal record
• Psychological profile and entry test
• Declaration of all business and associated interests
Again as stated - for the self created multi - millionaire - fair play to them however they do not have the welfare of the state and 4.5 million people under their direct control.
FYI I believe this discusion relates to the Irish political system and the many gombeen politicians (there have been some exceptions) that have ensured the continuence of self centered clientism / parish pump politics in this country
It is time things were changed for the better. Where for example my GP is obliged to have a third level qualification then I do not expect any less of the politicians that get to determine the future of this nation and paid handsomely for it.0 -
People go on about self made billionaires etc., but those people often take risks and innovate in ways completely innapropriate to the steady discipline required for running the country. Something like two out of five start-ups fail. Do we want the country ran in a manner that invovles a 40% chance of the country going bust. I would expect, for example, the Minister for Finance to obey the laws of conventional economics, rather than relying too much on their own entrepreneurial spirit. (Look where McCreevys "when I have it I'll spend it" procylical economic policy got us) I'm not sure that it would be unreasonable to expect that the Minster for Finance be appropriately qualified. Why is this "elitism" such a problem in politics? I'd bloody well expect my doctor to be qualified.0
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ILikeFriday wrote: »People go on about self made billionaires etc., but those people often take risks and innovate in ways completely innapropriate to the steady discipline required for running the country. Something like two out of five start-ups fail. Do we want the country ran in a manner that invovles a 40% chance of the country going bust. I would expect, for example, the Minister for Finance to obey the laws of conventional economics, rather than relying too much on their own entrepreneurial spirit. (Look where McCreevys "when I have it I'll spend it" procylical economic policy got us)
The electorate should set certain limits and parameters for how the country should be run, eg. the country should always have a budget surplus of at least 15% each year, if the surplus went below that amount then that would result in the instant dismissal of the minister for finance and Taoiseach.
If the country were to have a budget deficit then that should be classed as treason and would result in prison sentences for both the minister for finance and taoiseach, unless there were extraordinary circumstances such as war/famine etc0
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