The Anglo Irish Tapes

Hootanany · 23-07-2013 08:54AM

Thanks for that.

Boombastic · 23-07-2013 08:59AM

Hootanany wrote: »

Mof & Dof are they the same.

Mr. Nice wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that in Boombastic's post, MoF refers to the Minister for Finance and DoF is the Department of Finance.
Not sure why he/she didn't clarify this instead of giving a smartarse response.

Where in the above statement by Hootnanny is clarification asked for?

Mr. Nice · 23-07-2013 10:07AM

Boombastic wrote: »

Where in the above statement by Hootnanny is clarification asked for?

The pedantry is strong in this one.

Despite the lack of a question mark, it's quite obvious that the poster was asking a perfectly reasonable question. But don't let that get in the way of some petty sniping on your part.
@Mods, apologies for going off topic, but this type of "carry on" (expletives redacted) is really off-putting.

Boombastic · 23-07-2013 10:09AM

Mr. Nice wrote: »

The pedantry is strong in this one.

Despite the lack of a question mark, it's quite obvious that the poster was asking a perfectly reasonable question. But don't let that get in the way of some petty sniping on your part.
@Mods, apologies for going off topic, but this type of "carry on" (expletives redacted) is really off-putting.

^^^Yes this type of carry on really is off putting

Hootanany · 23-07-2013 11:10AM

Sorry I asked it now!

squod · 23-07-2013 11:39AM

NORTH1 wrote: »

Long story short,

The bank is not allowed to loan money to shareholders to support share prices in the bank. The draft letter that was to be sent to the minister, which was seen by senior civil servants stated that this had happened . The letter was then sent edited, stating the bank did not loan money for propping shares, which is a lie, and the senior civi servants would have known the minister was been lied to.

You have that backwards. It's seems to me the letter was changed at the request of the minister.

In short.........

DOF '' you know the way we're illegally propping up the share price of that poxy little bank you love so much?''

MOF '' STFU or else.......''

DOF ''Sorry mister minister sir''

Hootanany · 23-07-2013 11:45AM

So which one is true?

squod · 23-07-2013 11:50AM

Hootanany wrote: »

So which one is true?

I don't understand the question.

There's two letters. Each of them show that the Dept of Finance knew it was doing something wrong.

Better off watching last Thursdays Vinnie Browne show. 18 July 2013

Hootanany · 23-07-2013 11:58AM

I shall just going on my Lunch cheers.

Hootanany · 23-07-2013 01:48PM

Vincent was like a Dog with a bone in that.
I hope this does not get buried again. Many thanks to all.

Noreen1 · 23-07-2013 03:25PM

squod wrote: »

You have that backwards. It's seems to me the letter was changed at the request of the minister.

In short.........

DOF '' you know the way we're illegally propping up the share price of that poxy little bank you love so much?''

MOF '' STFU or else.......''

DOF ''Sorry mister minister sir''

That's another possibility, alright!
Is it my imagination, or did I read something in one of the papers where Lenihan is quoted as having said "Don't tell me something I don't want to hear!", or words to that effect?

I can't actually remember whether that was an "opinion piece", or factual reporting. (Or as factual as it gets in agenda driven Irish news, at any rate.)

Hootanany wrote: »

So which one is true?

It could be either.
We know that the original draft letter was changed. We know that Ann Whatshername was to review the letter.

What we don't know is who changed it, or who gave the order to have it changed, as the case may be.

It seems there's loads of dirty laundry still to be washed!:(

squod · 23-07-2013 09:44PM

Noreen1 wrote: »

"Don't tell me something I don't want to hear!", or words to that effect?

I can't actually remember whether that was an "opinion piece", or factual reporting.

People seem to have a short memory generally. Can remeber meself screaming at the TV when there was talk of including Anglo in the banking guarantee. I'm shure Finance knew as much as I did. Every fuhker who signed something to do with the fraud should be locked up 'till the truth comes out. Then tried and deported.

Noreen1 · 23-07-2013 09:58PM

I wouldn't argue with that.

I can remember being furious, on principle, when the bailout was meant to cost 3 to 4 Billion.

I was, and remain, beyond furious about Anglo, the fact that my children will have to pay this debt that wasn't of their making, about the blatant lies...
I could go on all night!:mad:

And they're still blathering about a bl**dy oireachtas enquiry, as if that were doing us a big favour!!! Pfft!

Wurzelbert · 07-08-2013 08:49PM

so it's over and we all live with it...what else...

rolliepoley · 07-08-2013 08:51PM

Out of sight out of mind.

Quandary · 08-08-2013 04:56AM

It really is quite impressive how they managed to smother this mess. Seems like it was getting dangerously close to a few of the key inner circle members. You've gotta hand it to the boys at the top, when it comes to saving their own asses they pull out all the stops.

I'm guessing quite a few subtle but heavily packed brown envelopes exchanged hands, as tends to be the case in this country when the sh1t hits the political fan.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 08-08-2013 07:04AM

Quandary wrote: »

It really is quite impressive how they managed to smother this mess. Seems like it was getting dangerously close to a few of the key inner circle members. You've gotta hand it to the boys at the top, when it comes to saving their own asses they pull out all the stops.

I'm guessing quite a few subtle but heavily packed brown envelopes exchanged hands, as tends to be the case in this country when the sh1t hits the political fan.

They lied throughout (Anglo and INBS). The Late Brian Lenihan didn't have proper information in front of him on that night in September O8.

The banks fcuked over the government in the end.

Wurzelbert · 08-08-2013 08:26AM

Quandary wrote: »

It really is quite impressive how they managed to smother this mess. Seems like it was getting dangerously close to a few of the key inner circle members. You've gotta hand it to the boys at the top, when it comes to saving their own asses they pull out all the stops.

I'm guessing quite a few subtle but heavily packed brown envelopes exchanged hands, as tends to be the case in this country when the sh1t hits the political fan.

yeah, what a pathetic mess...seems the only hope here is for some sort of higher justice in the afterlife...hard as it may be to believe in hell and all that, but that is where they should burn for eternity and suffer in endless agony beyond imagination with all the horrors of damnation brought upon them tenfold, now that they seem to have evaded earthly justice altogether...and if somebody could speed up the process please...

Leslie91 · 08-08-2013 08:50AM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

yeah, what a pathetic mess...seems the only hope here is for some sort of higher justice in the afterlife...hard as it may be to believe in hell and all that, but that is where they should burn for eternity and suffer in endless agony beyond imagination with all the horrors of damnation brought upon them tenfold, now that they seem to have evaded earthly justice altogether...and if somebody could speed up the process please...

God I hope and pray we don't have to wait for justice in the afterlife for these scum.... but it sure looks that way. What sort of country is this?

(don't answer that, it's kinda rhetorical)

Scofflaw · 08-08-2013 12:03PM

Quandary wrote: »

It really is quite impressive how they managed to smother this mess. Seems like it was getting dangerously close to a few of the key inner circle members. You've gotta hand it to the boys at the top, when it comes to saving their own asses they pull out all the stops.

I'm guessing quite a few subtle but heavily packed brown envelopes exchanged hands, as tends to be the case in this country when the sh1t hits the political fan.

You don't need brown envelopes to change hands, and the problem with using brown envelopes as an explanation for absolutely everything in Irish political life is that it misses larger and far more serious issues.

Our problem is not that our political representatives are individually bent, but that as a country we're following a state policy of being bent. No individual at Anglo would have needed to bribe an individual in government to get the bank protected - the bank was protected at the expense of the taxpayer because that is the policy of the country, and has been for decades.

Sure, we have a brown envelope problem at the local level in planning, but our bigger problem is that the State, in effect, takes enormous brown envelopes from multinationals and finance companies to protect their interests. For example:

Banks and multinational firms successfully lobbied the Government for a range of taxation and legal incentives to be introduced in the 2013 budget.

Lobbying documents obtained by The Irish Times indicate that the Clearing House Group – a controversial gathering of financial industry executives, accountants and senior civil servants – helped to secure at least a dozen separate measures in the Finance Act for 2013. This is the legislation which enacts budget measures.

Proposals sought by the industry group which ended up in legislation included:

- Improvements to the foreign tax credit regime;

- Changing the tax treatment of certain investment funds;

- Exemptions to capital acquisitions tax for foreign firms;

- Changes to the taxation of foreign dividends for certain firms with branches abroad

- More generous incentives for research and development.

While Government and the financial industry argue that the resulting measures were aimed at creating badly needed jobs, critics say the group is too secretive and wields a disproportionate amount of influence on the Government.

Other changes to the finance legislation sought by the group included technical amendments to legislation aimed at enhancing the type of tax relief available to some categories of firms.

In some cases, sections of proposed legislation were drafted by the industry and then put to the Department of Finance for consideration.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finance-industry-won-key-tax-concessions-in-budget-1.1487724

It's not about brown envelopes to individuals. We are a corrupt state.

cordially,
Scofflaw

AnOrdinaryJoe · 08-08-2013 12:22PM

from one of my friends Facebook pages earlier:

If a man has a house stacked to the ceiling with newspapers.... he's crazy

If a woman has a trailer house full of cats..... she's nuts

Yet when some people pathologically hoard so much cash they impoverish others...... they are put on the cover of Fortune magazine and pretend they are role models

....... 'strange' how things work !

Noreen1 · 08-08-2013 12:43PM

Quandary wrote: »

It really is quite impressive how they managed to smother this mess. Seems like it was getting dangerously close to a few of the key inner circle members. You've gotta hand it to the boys at the top, when it comes to saving their own asses they pull out all the stops.

I'm guessing quite a few subtle but heavily packed brown envelopes exchanged hands, as tends to be the case in this country when the sh1t hits the political fan.

All "excused":rolleyes: by the need to avoid "prejudice" in the forthcoming trials.
The trouble is, the dogs in the street have no faith in justice being seen to be done at these trials, and little, if any, confidence, that all of those guilty of wrongdoing will ever be brought to trial.:mad:

Scofflaw wrote: »

You don't need brown envelopes to change hands, and the problem with using brown envelopes as an explanation for absolutely everything in Irish political life is that it misses larger and far more serious issues.

Our problem is not that our political representatives are individually bent, but that as a country we're following a state policy of being bent. No individual at Anglo would have needed to bribe an individual in government to get the bank protected - the bank was protected at the expense of the taxpayer because that is the policy of the country, and has been for decades.

Sure, we have a brown envelope problem at the local level in planning, but our bigger problem is that the State, in effect, takes enormous brown envelopes from multinationals and finance companies to protect their interests. For example:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finance-industry-won-key-tax-concessions-in-budget-1.1487724

It's not about brown envelopes to individuals. We are a corrupt state.

cordially,
Scofflaw

+ 1000.

I've been unhappy with the level of lobbying being done in Ireland by various vested interests for a very long time.

The bigger picture, of course, is that we're not the only Country where this happens. Political lobbying also goes on in Europe, and the USA - and it generally isn't done in the interests of the ordinary citizen.

K-9 · 08-08-2013 10:53PM

Noreen1 wrote: »

I've been unhappy with the level of lobbying being done in Ireland by various vested interests for a very long time.

The bigger picture, of course, is that we're not the only Country where this happens. Political lobbying also goes on in Europe, and the USA - and it generally isn't done in the interests of the ordinary citizen.

The problem is lobbying by multi-nationals garners probably majority support from the ordinary citizens, especially when it comes to lower taxes for them. Our 12 1/2% rate is sacrosanct and our tax haven like tax laws are defended with gusto and tbh, who could blame them? Our tax policy is our No. 1 selling point.

Birroc · 09-08-2013 11:11AM

I thought the Anglo tapes would be the straw that broke the camels back in terms of initiating widespread protests on banking practices, banking debt etc but it looks like people are already forgetting about it. Sad really. What will it take?

Meanwhile we are happily creating our own doom...
http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

Noreen1 · 09-08-2013 05:11PM

K-9 wrote: »

The problem is lobbying by multi-nationals garners probably majority support from the ordinary citizens, especially when it comes to lower taxes for them. Our 12 1/2% rate is sacrosanct and our tax haven like tax laws are defended with gusto and tbh, who could blame them? Our tax policy is our No. 1 selling point.

If the tax policy for multi-nationals were the only thing that lobbyists did, I'd agree with you.

Unfortunately, the lobbying game is a lot more comprehensive, and insidious, than that.

From food additives that are banned in the USA, due to harmful health effects, to pig farms in Poland that break every animal welfare law that exists - to the current insult, where the very people who lent recklessly and ruined the Country in the process, actually write the amendments to legislation!

If it weren't so serious, and detrimental to the ordinary citizen - I'd say it was a joke! Unfortunately, it's not at all funny!

Worztron · 18-08-2013 07:21PM

I wonder how many times the Anglo Irish boys and their pals have split their sides from laughing so hard at the rest of us? The "investigation" must surely be the most anemic and slowest in world history.

rolliepoley · 18-08-2013 07:25PM

Worztron wrote: »

I wonder how many times the Anglo Irish boys and their pals have split their sides from laughing so hard at the rest of us? The "investigation" must surely be the most anemic and slowest in world history.

I think you may hold your breath on that one Worzton.

donegal_road · 18-08-2013 08:36PM

Birroc wrote: »

I thought the Anglo tapes would be the straw that broke the camels back in terms of initiating widespread protests on banking practices, banking debt etc but it looks like people are already forgetting about it. Sad really. What will it take?

Meanwhile we are happily creating our own doom...
http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

If what is posted in this thread becomes widely known, I think it might do the trick.. (you have to read in 4 or 5 pages to get the bigger picture... some real gems in there)

donegal_road · 20-08-2013 11:28AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4-IpPh0rJI

Hootanany · 20-08-2013 11:34AM

Sorry I meant to post yesterday, Do you think it was HIM that pulled the plug?

The Anglo Irish Tapes

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