Why can nobody speak Irish?

NeVeR · 27-07-2013 02:54PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Sweet suffering Jesus.

As somebody currently outside Ireland in a non-English-speaking country (these barbarians do exist, old chap!) I can assure you that it is a first rate delusion of the untravelled English mind that thinks "the whole world uses English". Not even half, not even quarter. Wearing a t-shirt declaring "I love bj" (cringe), as I saw today, does not qualify one as a speaker of English. Not even a majority of people in either Europe or the EU, where the most widely spoken first language is... German, not English. Nobody who has travelled could subscribe to this nonsense. I have travelled hugely and this "English is the world language" delusion f*cked me over massively in my first trips. People only have to see the shocking English "translations" around them, if they exist at all, to drop down to earth. And that's just within the EU. Today, I saw about 20 "white" people, even when I was seeking them out. And the ones I found spoke to me in broken English (they were German, or at least German speakers).

The delusions of English monoglots about the extent of competent English speakers beyond the Anglo world is entertaining in its ignorance.

Why can't you post images !!!

This is you <-- click

Ficheall · 27-07-2013 02:59PM

NeVeR wrote: »

I can speak Irish fluently, I did all my schooling through Irish.
While i like the fact that I can speak my own languages, If I could turn back the clock and had a choice I would never do it again.
Reason: I did all my subjects in Irish, Woodwork / Art/ Tech graph etc. and since I did it in Irish I learned all the terms in Irish.. and speaking to anyone that done it in English they have no clue what I'm trying to explain etc. Learning them all in Irish was such a disadvantage as the whole world uses English.

I did my Junior Cert cycle through Irish and my first year in college. Never had any difficulty discussing things with English speakers. Maybe it's not the Irish language which is responsible for your difficulties?

Dostoevsky · 27-07-2013 03:06PM

NeVeR wrote: »

Why can't you post images !!!

This is you <-- click

This is a strange response to somebody who has challenged your claims about the dominance of English, as ridiculous as those claims are to those of us who have travelled.

Tony EH · 27-07-2013 03:23PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Sweet suffering Jesus.

As somebody currently outside Ireland in a non-English-speaking country (these barbarians do exist, old chap!) I can assure you that it is a first rate delusion of the untravelled English mind that thinks "the whole world uses English". Not even half, not even quarter. Wearing a t-shirt declaring "I love bj" (cringe), as I saw today, does not qualify one as a speaker of English. Not even a majority of people in either Europe or the EU, where the most widely spoken first language is... German, not English. Nobody who has travelled could subscribe to this nonsense. I have travelled hugely and this "English is the world language" delusion f*cked me over massively in my first trips. People only have to see the shocking English "translations" around them, if they exist at all, to drop down to earth. And that's just within the EU. Today, I saw about 20 "white" people, even when I was seeking them out. And the ones I found spoke to me in broken English (they were German, or at least German speakers).

The delusions of English monoglots about the extent of competent English speakers beyond the Anglo world is entertaining in its ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

You better edit Wiki then

While it certainly isn't used in everyday communication outside it's areas, English is actually the most common "second" language in the entire world.

Wibbs · 27-07-2013 03:23PM

Yep people seem to have this notion that nearly all of Europe are english speakers to some degree or other. likely because they've only travelled to tourist spots, or met foreigners here who had some command of it and extrapolated from that. In my travels I found the Swedes to be about the best non native english speakers and had the highest number of same, even in surprisingly remote areas. The Dutch were pretty good, but in urban and tourist areas, outside of such the Netherlands is almost another country(not just in language). Germany I found fairly OK, again in the built up areas. Out of a group of say ten locals in a pub 2 or 3 would have a fair enough command, enough to get by. Spain, Greece and Italy outside the "del sols" you're reduced to half remembered schoolboy Latin and pointing and smiling a lot, while praying you haven't ended up in a factual remake of the Galician wickerman.

That said as a world language, English trumps the rest. Twice the number of speakers compared to it's nearest rival Spanish. Chinese isn't in the running, simply because the vast majority of it's speakers are Chinese and because of it's very structure it's highly unlikely to spread beyond that. Hindi has a huge amount of speakers too, but again it's too "local" to count on the world language score. If you're a native english speaker and want to be able to have a natter with the greatest number of folks worldwide add Spanish(Portuguese being very close would be handy to add) and Arabic to the list and you're away on a hack.

Grayson · 27-07-2013 05:29PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Incidentally, this one estimates that we spend 20 billion on social welfare :P
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/A-third-of-Irelands-expenditure-goes-toward-social-welfare-payment-126083018.html

To be fair, that stops people starving and stops pensioners going cold in the winter. It's (generally) money well spent.
I think a billion on irish is excessive. But honestly, if it was 500 million I'd think it's excessive. It's an investment with very little return. I know people might say "but we're teaching a language which is part of our culture etc..." And i would argue against that except that isn't my point. My point is that we're spending fcuk loads of money on a language that no-one is learning.

Ficheall wrote: »

I'm curious as to how you see this panning out.. You're thinking of a musical festival headlined by U2 and the Dubliners, is it?

Once or twice maybe, they are irish after all. I'm thinking of all types of arts and music. Honestly, I'm not going to lay out a whole cultural calender. My point is that with 1/10th of the money we spend on teaching irish we could create a huge amount of cultural events. And those events would probably have more impact than the 1bn we spend on irish.

Ficheall wrote: »

I had lunch trí Ghaeilge yesterday with a friend who teaches Irish in Belgium. We passed a group of schoolkids nattering away as Gaeilge as we were walking through town. Irish may be on the way out, but it will certainly outlive all of us.

I'm graduating this year after having gone back to college. I've heard irish speakers a few times on campus and it's the first time in years & years I've heard it. It does imply there are speakers there. The bad news is that a really good friend of mine is graduating with honours in irish this year and she'll readily admit that she could barely hold a conversation in irish and the same goes for 50% of her class.
There's something very, very wrong with our education system.

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Sweet suffering Jesus.

As somebody currently outside Ireland in a non-English-speaking country (these barbarians do exist, old chap!) I can assure you that it is a first rate delusion of the untravelled English mind that thinks "the whole world uses English". Not even half, not even quarter. Wearing a t-shirt declaring "I love bj" (cringe), as I saw today, does not qualify one as a speaker of English. Not even a majority of people in either Europe or the EU, where the most widely spoken first language is... German, not English. Nobody who has travelled could subscribe to this nonsense. I have travelled hugely and this "English is the world language" delusion f*cked me over massively in my first trips. People only have to see the shocking English "translations" around them, if they exist at all, to drop down to earth. And that's just within the EU. Today, I saw about 20 "white" people, even when I was seeking them out. And the ones I found spoke to me in broken English (they were German, or at least German speakers).

The delusions of English monoglots about the extent of competent English speakers beyond the Anglo world is entertaining in its ignorance.

Nice rant against someone who thinks that in the greater world he would have been better off learning English rather than Irish. Well, either that or your a grammar nazi who's taken umbrage at the phrase the whole world and managed to completely miss the point. Or do you think irish would be more useful than English when your travelling through Europe? Do you think there are more Irish speakers than English speakers in Germany.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-07-2013 06:09PM

Ficheall wrote: »

And it's about 13bn a year on education in general, no?

It's not just Irish that one isn't getting one's money's worth in, to be fair. Probably all due to poor teaching and examination standards though.

Incidentally, this one estimates that we spend 20 billion on social welfare :P
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/A-third-of-Irelands-expenditure-goes-toward-social-welfare-payment-126083018.html

In fairness, a billion on teaching it in school is pretty much wasted. I have no problem with the amount, but it could easily be put to so much better use.

There is little wrong with the teachign and examinations as well - it's the damn syllabuses that are the problem - and this is across the board.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-07-2013 06:40PM

Grayson wrote: »

But if dublin kept building more spires, we'd think they were stupid and wasteing money.

I love wandering around the museums of Dublin. But when you consider how much is spent on them compared to how much is spent on Irish, it's a bit silly. Every document is translated into Irish here. Every school teaches it. There's a subsidised TV channel for it. I'm pretty certain that museums only get a fraction of money that's given to Irish.

This article estimates, although I'll admit it provides no sources, that we spend 1bn on teaching irish a year.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-language--throwing-good-money-after-bad-225250.html

It's a kinda believable figure. Whatever the actual figure is, it's going to be massive.

There are better ways to spend that money rather than propping up a project that's failed. the government has spent decades trying to make this country speak irish and it's failed. It's probably a better use of money to stop funding irish to the same extend and focus on other cultural activities. Could you imagine the epic festivals that we'd have throughout the country if we spent 100 mil on it? Music, art, literature etc would be thriving. And it would be Irish culture, even if it's not Irish language.

We need to stop compulsory Irish after the junior cert, if not after primary. We need to focus on conversational Irish for the first few years. And we need to stop shoving pointless poems and stories down the throats of students. It took the dept of education years to realise that Peig did more harm than good, mainly because the irish cultural nazis thought it was an important part of our history and culture.

Doing all that would cut expenditure and focus on the main areas if fluency that need addressing. If we can't do that then there's no point. the Irish lanugage now has enough speakers who speak it on a daily basis outside of the education system that it was technically a dead language. I say was because the EU changed their definition of what a dead language was after the Irish government lobbied them. And it was due to government lobbying that the language status was changed from treaty status to official status.

Dead or alive, the Irish language is on it's last legs. The discussion about whether or not it's living is similar to a discussion about whether or not a person on life support is. The irish language is on a billion euro's of life support at the moment. And that billion euro's is hardly making a dent. So either we change what we're doing, or give up and pull the plug. Because I'm sure everyone can think of a better use for that money.

You seem to miss the point I was making to Iwasfrozen; which is a government should support cultrual and artisitc endeveaours.

As to how and how much, that's nto really essential to what I was saying.

AlanS181824 · 27-07-2013 06:51PM

Edit: Completely wrong thread. Sorry :P

BognarRegis · 27-07-2013 07:11PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You seem to miss the point I was making to Iwasfrozen; which is a government should support cultrual and artisitc endeveaours.

As to how and how much, that's nto really essential to what I was saying.

If the 'how' includes forcing people to learn Irish, surely that's a too much?

After 80 years, and many curriculum changes, I think it's clear that the teaching methods are not the problem.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-07-2013 08:08PM

BognarRegis wrote: »

If the 'how' includes forcing people to learn Irish, surely that's a too much?

After 80 years, and many curriculum changes, I think it's clear that the teaching methods are not the problem.

Absolutely. As I said, 1 billion of the Irish language budget on education is a waste.

An Coilean · 27-07-2013 10:41PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Absolutely. As I said, 1 billion of the Irish language budget on education is a waste.

You think 1bn euro is spent on teaching Irish?

'It is estimated' Ya, by the author who was too lazy to do any research.

The reform movement, a southern unionist grouping that want to see Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth did a piece on the cost of the Irish language at the height of the Celtic tiger back in 2006 and even they did not come up with a figure of 1bn being spent on Irish in the education system.

Just because it is written on paper does not mean its true.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-07-2013 11:01PM

An Coilean wrote: »

You think 1bn euro is spent on teaching Irish?

'It is estimated' Ya, by the author who was too lazy to do any research.

The reform movement, a southern unionist grouping that want to see Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth did a piece on the cost of the Irish language at the height of the Celtic tiger back in 2006 and even they did not come up with a figure of 1bn being spent on Irish in the education system.

Just because it is written on paper does not mean its true.

Accepted, and the poster poitned it out at the time, but again, not really the point I was making: investing it in education is not really the best use of the funding whatever the level, unless the education dept. sorts out the syllabus and stops spending money on people who have no intention of learnign the language to start with.

I believe the bible refers to Onan who wpilt his seed on the ground and nothing grew, which is akin to the problem mentioned above. Granted, it's supposed to be a parable on masturbation, but the idea holds firm.

(There you go - Irish language to a wanker on one post

)

Iwasfrozen · 27-07-2013 11:05PM

An Coilean wrote: »

The reform movement, a southern unionist grouping that want to see Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth did a piece on the cost of the Irish language at the height of the Celtic tiger back in 2006 and even they did not come up with a figure of 1bn being spent on Irish in the education system.

Why would you assume a unionist group would come up with an inflated figure? You wouldn't be holding pre conceived prejudices against unionists would you?

Rubeter · 31-07-2013 10:34AM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

So the situation is
Post 1
You deny any knowledge of the process, or that it is even applied to phrases in the Irish language.

Post 2
You state not only knowledge of the process, but expertise.

It can't be both. Which is it?

If the first post is true, then according to you transliteration does not take place in modern Irish, with another apparently more expert (than you) poster who also supports the use of Irish stating that it does, making your statement incorrect simply on the basis of personal ignorance. This also means that post 2 is a lie, or that you somehow became an expert in the timespan between the two posts (which stretches the definition of expert I think you'll find).

If the second post is true, then it means you were lying in post 1. The only logical explanation for this is that you didn't like the assertion, and attempted to dismiss it, unsuccessfully as it happens.
Which is it?

This looks like the logical musings of a 6 year old, your entire argument rests on #1 being true, since it is not just false but a blatant lie then the rest is meaningless.

And yet you haven't managed to rebut a single point, in any of the languages you claim to speak. All you've done is attempt to brag about your supposedly superior intelligence, to no good purpose.

Ignoring evidence contrary to your point does not mean it doesn't exist, nor that it has not been presented.

This entire conversation between yourself and myself gives a possible glimpse of the relative levels of intelligence between us, you make point, point shown to be incorrect, you throw tantrum, get bitchy and keep making incorrect point, that kind of carry on tells a lot about someone.

I claim the language died and has been kept in a zombie condition by a combination of politics, force feeding, egregious lawmaking, and massive financial support.

You can claim anything you like, but that won't magically make something false into something true.
That the language never died makes your claim wrong and no amount of kicking and screaming will ever make it right.

An Coilean · 31-07-2013 04:28PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Surely the elephant in the room is Welsh? Population three million, with a devolved parliament within the United Kingdom and yet the Welsh language flourishes, whilst here in Ireland the Irish languish has bumped along at the bottom of the pond since independence from the UK!

Perhaps the Irish language movement should try to emulate the Welsh language movement, ie mass protests, civil disobediance, vandalism of public and private property, destruction of monolingual signage, wrecking the offices of politicians who fail to toe the line, hunger strikes and breaking the law to attract media attention to ongoing campaigns.

The Welsh Language movement have done all of that and more, many members have served multiple Jail terms and regard their time in prison as a badge of honor, perhaps the Irish language movement needs to become more militant, it seems to be working for Welsh.

OCorcrainn · 31-07-2013 04:50PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why would you assume a unionist group would come up with an inflated figure? You wouldn't be holding pre conceived prejudices against unionists would you?

For a start, just listen to Jim Allister of the TUV and how he refers and speaks of the Irish language and you will understand why.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-07-2013 04:51PM

An Coilean wrote: »

Perhaps the Irish language movement should try to emulate the Welsh language movement, ie mass protests, civil disobediance, vandalism of public and private property, destruction of monolingual signage, wrecking the offices of politicians who fail to toe the line, hunger strikes and breaking the law to attract media attention to ongoing campaigns.

The Welsh Language movement have done all of that and more, many members have served multiple Jail terms and regard their time in prison as a badge of honor, perhaps the Irish language movement needs to become more militant, it seems to be working for Welsh.

Can you elaboarte on the above? All I can find is 50th anniversary celebrations.

The other pracrical thing to bear in mind is: ware the Welsh language protestors in the majority; what are their airms; did they have to contend with a largely apathetic population?

An Coilean · 31-07-2013 05:29PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Can you elaboarte on the above? All I can find is 50th anniversary celebrations.

The other pracrical thing to bear in mind is: ware the Welsh language protestors in the majority; what are their airms; did they have to contend with a largely apathetic population?

Its called the 'Welsh Language Society' have a look at its history and/or news reports of their activities.

Were they in the majority? At their own protests, probably, does their society represent the majority of Welsh people? No.

Their general aim is ‘Dwi eisiau byw yn Gymraeg’ (I want to live in Welsh)
If your interested you can read their Manifesto
One part of which is to increase the amount spent on Welsh x4 to bring Wales in line with spending on the Basque Language in the Basque country which has seen a substantial revival of their language over the last 20-30 years.

As for contending with an 'apathetic population'
Some are active supporters, more are disinterested, most are generally in favour but take no part and some are activly opposed, much the same as for Irish really.

BognarRegis · 31-07-2013 06:24PM

An Coilean wrote: »

One part of which is to increase the amount spent on Welsh x4 to bring Wales in line with spending on the Basque Language in the Basque country which has seen a substantial revival of their language over the last 20-30 years.

How does spending on Irish compare to Welsh and Basque?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-07-2013 06:37PM

An Coilean wrote: »

Its called the 'Welsh Language Society' have a look at its history and/or news reports of their activities.

Were they in the majority? At their own protests, probably, does their society represent the majority of Welsh people? No.

Their general aim is ‘Dwi eisiau byw yn Gymraeg’ (I want to live in Welsh)
If your interested you can read their Manifesto
One part of which is to increase the amount spent on Welsh x4 to bring Wales in line with spending on the Basque Language in the Basque country which has seen a substantial revival of their language over the last 20-30 years.

As for contending with an 'apathetic population'
Some are active supporters, more are disinterested, most are generally in favour but take no part and some are activly opposed, much the same as for Irish really.

Thanks.

I ask because, before you can model any language revival on Welsh, you have to make sure you have the same (or similar) aims and that they have the same problems Irish does. If, for example, they have much higher support, or other differing factors (advantageous or otherwise), then trying their ideas simply because they worked in Wales would be foolish.

Well have a look and report back.

AlanS181824 · 31-07-2013 06:41PM

Níl aon Gaeilge agam....that's all I know.
How'd I do? ;p;

Aineoil · 31-07-2013 06:45PM

AlanS a haon a hocht a haon a hocht a dó a ceathar,

Sin togh..........céad faoin gcéad duitse!

An Coilean · 31-07-2013 07:09PM

BognarRegis wrote: »

How does spending on Irish compare to Welsh and Basque?

No Idea.
Both Welsh and the Basque Language are far more prolific in both the education sphere and the public service in those countries than is the case for Irish in Ireland.

If this means more money is spent on these languages in their respective countries than is spent on Irish in Ireland, I don't know as I don't have the figures, but I think it is quite probable.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-07-2013 07:16PM

Okay, had a look at the Welsh manifesto and it seems that, first of all, their problems are different:

From the manifersto:
It’s apparent that outward migration - such as young people leaving their communities to look for work - is one of the main factors leading to the linguistic emergency.

Whatever about domestic, Irish speakers travelling aborad seem to be better at taking the langauge with them.

They do, however, seem to have identified their goals better than their Irish counterparts:

The message of Tynged yr Iaith II was that years of campaigning have ensured that the Welsh language will survive. The question, by now, is what kind of future will it face? A language for the classroom, dry documentation, a language for signage - or - as our nation and our communities’ own language?

Moving on to employment: Their emploment manifsto is a bit discriminatory.

Establish a Welsh Medium Labour Market – work is needed urgently to monitor the need for a Welsh medium workforce in sectors and locations across Wales as well as planning to meet the demand for a workforce with Welsh language skills, including an ambitious Welsh in the workplace training scheme. This should start with the major employers where the provision is most needed, such as the health service, social services and further and higher education

If a certain skill is not an essential tool to do the job, it should not be an issue. If a candiate is clearly better, why should he be passed over because he does not speak Welsh?
Futhermore, from the language section, there is this hypocritical gem:

No-one should be placed under such a disadvantage in the modern Wales, and we call for a timetable to be drawn up to ensure that everyone attains the skill of fluency in Welsh.

But they just said they want non-welsh speakers to be placed at a disadvantage...!!

The second problem, is that it only really targets people who can alread sepak Welsh. it's not goign to attract new speakers.

Education:

We believe that the Welsh language is an essential educational skill for everyone who wishes to live and work in Wales.

It's not essential for the same reasons Irish is not essential here. Nothing is going to change that. They go on to say:

...and that no pupil should be deprived of the opportunity to learn this special skill that is also one of the nation’s treasures.

Which is fine. Every child should have the opportunity. But:

We call for an immediate move to a system where every pupil will receive a portion of their education through the medium of Welsh, so they have the opportunity to work through the medium of Welsh. In addition, opportunities should be secured for pupils to explore their personal linguistic identity in addition to their experience of the world and the community around them.

...this is far from givig them "an opportunity". This is forcing your will on someoen else, specifcially a child.
If a child has the right and opporunity to learn something, they msut also have the right to not avail of this opportunity without backlash.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your aims - as well as your relationship with other peoples' rights - when you have to force people to do something.

Aineoil · 31-07-2013 07:58PM

Debate about the Irish language on this forum is good and in fairness you all have made many valid points. Some love the language a lot hate it. There have been a lot of questions on the teaching of Irish. No language is easy to learn. You have to engage to learn a language and work hard at it too. People have different styles of learning also.

Language is a means to be understood and to communicate. Most people in Ireland today have no need of Irish. But for me it's about nostalgia, keeping a dying language alive and my OH is a native speaker. For him it's a living language when he goes home.

I don't believe the language should be forced on any child. It just encourages a hatred for the language. It's nice for a child up to second class, most get great fun out of the classes. After that it's down hill for the majority of children. Most hate it!

Having said that, children who find maths or English difficult, are not eager to engage in those subjects either.

I don't have any answers to the "Irish language" question but because you hated Peig is strange.

I just wonder if the OP is from the daltaí boards?

BognarRegis · 31-07-2013 08:01PM

An Coilean wrote: »

No Idea.
Both Welsh and the Basque Language are far more prolific in both the education sphere and the public service in those countries than is the case for Irish in Ireland.

Are all Spanish children forced to learn Basque? Is there a law requiring all public signage in all parts of Spain to be in Basque?

An Coilean wrote: »

If this means more money is spent on these languages in their respective countries than is spent on Irish in Ireland, I don't know as I don't have the figures, but I think it is quite probable.

But, since you don't know, so the amount per head could actually be much less. This is important as money might not be the solution to your problem. There could be other reasons.

F35 · 31-07-2013 08:04PM

Aineoil wrote: »

Debate about the Irish language on this forum is good and in fairness you all have made many valid points. Some love the language a lot hate it. There have been a lot of questions on the teaching of Irish. No language is easy to learn. You have to engage to learn a language and work hard at it too. People have different styles of learning also.

Language is a means to be understood and to communicate. Most people in Ireland today have no need of Irish. But for me it's about nostalgia, keeping a dying language alive and my OH is a native speaker. For him it's a living language when he goes home.

I don't believe the language should be forced on any child. It just encourages a hatred for the language. It's nice for a child up to second class, most get great fun out of the classes. After that it's down hill for the majority of children. Most hate it!

Having said that, children who find maths or English difficult, are not eager to engage in those subjects either.

I don't have any answers to the "Irish language" question but because you hated Peig is strange.

I just wonder if the OP is from the daltaí boards?

Completely agree

An Coilean · 31-07-2013 08:39PM

BognarRegis wrote: »

Are all Spanish children forced to learn Basque? Is there a law requiring all public signage in all parts of Spain to be in Basque?

No. Are you trying to make a distinction between Irish being used all over Ireland while Basque is not used all over Spain? That would be a poor example as the Basque language is not part of Spain's national herritage, just the Basque country so Basque not being used accross Spain is like Welsh not being used all over the UK, its native to Wales not the UK as a whole.

For Ireland however Irish is part of our national herritage so Irish is used ccross Ireland just like Basque is used in the Basque country or Welsh in Wales.

But, since you don't know, so the amount per head could actually be much less. This is important as money might not be the solution to your problem. There could be other reasons.

It could indeed, though if that is the case there needs to be some serious study into how on Earth they are providing a much much greater level of provision for much less money per head.
Personally I think it is very unlikely that they are, but hey, you never know.

An Coilean · 31-07-2013 08:53PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Whatever about domestic, Irish speakers travelling aborad seem to be better at taking the langauge with them.

The general point there would be Welsh speakers leaving Welsh speaking communities to seek work in other parts of the UK, thus reducing the proportion of Welsh speakers in Welsh speaking areas, the Gaeltacht has a similar problem with irish speakers moving away to Dublin.

Moving on to employment: Their emploment manifsto is a bit discriminatory.

If a certain skill is not an essential tool to do the job, it should not be an issue. If a candiate is clearly better, why should he be passed over because he does not speak Welsh?
Futhermore, from the language section, there is this hypocritical gem:

But they just said they want non-welsh speakers to be placed at a disadvantage...!!

They would be of the opinion that Welsh is essential to do the job in Wales, especially in traditionally Welsh speaking areas, much like most people would consider fluent English to be an acceptable job requirement in English speaking countrys.

The second problem, is that it only really targets people who can alread sepak Welsh. it's not goign to attract new speakers.

The Idea here is that they want the government to stop viewing Welsh as a Second language like teaching French or Spanish and view it instead as a vital skill like English and Maths.

Education:

It's not essential for the same reasons Irish is not essential here. Nothing is going to change that. They go on to say:

Which is fine. Every child should have the opportunity. But:

...this is far from givig them "an opportunity". This is forcing your will on someoen else, specifcially a child.
If a child has the right and opporunity to learn something, they msut also have the right to not avail of this opportunity without backlash.

Again, you are viewing the learning of Welsh as a nice to have but not terribly importent, they view it much as I would expect you to view the learning of English, ie a vital life skill that every child should learn to a high standard and if they are not the the education system is failing them.

Why can nobody speak Irish?

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