Clare GAA discussion thread

Thinkstoomuch · 15-07-2013 11:15PM

Hidalgo wrote: »

For me, championship progress would have been to make a Munster Final. Yes its a sign of progress as we won our 1st match in Munster since 08, but this is the strongest we've been in that period.

We can talk about young players, new systems etc, but if your not careful, a few years have slipped by and the boat has been missed.

We're not the only team doing well in recent years at underage level.

It seems like a long time since the cork game now yere doing well.

Ye are in a much better scenario to cork now.How are yere u21 team for thursday shaping up?

With the extra games for the seniors is it impacting yere prepartions with so many on the panel?

keeponhurling · 16-07-2013 03:23AM

I agree.
At start of the season we would have been among the favourites for relegation from Div 1, so we did well to stay up. Not easy for lads going from Div 2 to Div 1 standard.

The Waterford game would have been a 50/50 game, so happy to have won that, especially after so many years with a Munster SHC win.

Cork was disappointing, especially the manner of defeat, but beating Laois so convincingly was good. (Laois gave Galway a right scare in their match.)
Then a win over Wexford is good too, get into the habit of winning.

I think we have a right good chance of beating Galway, but even if we don't I'd still be reasonably satisfied with the season.

Hidalgo · 16-07-2013 09:42AM

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

It seems like a long time since the cork game now yere doing well.

Ye are in a much better scenario to cork now.How are yere u21 team for thursday shaping up?

With the extra games for the seniors is it impacting yere prepartions with so many on the panel?

I wouldn't say we're doing well per say, to argue that we have to beat another big team i.e Galway.

We got the nicest possible draw in the qualifiers, but we still have glaring problems. Most notably our half backline. According to an interview in yesterday's Examiner, Davy feels the only genuine hurling people in the county are the ones that post-Cork defeat told him to stick to the system and its working etc.
In other words, anyone that doubts his message isn't a genuine fan, that kind of mentality is worrying for me, and its no surprise we continue to struggle in the same areas.

Regardin our 21s, good enough to win an AI but at this grade you never know, knock-out hurling and with lads involved in senior, they've had very little chance to train as a panel together. This team at minor were unlucky to lose an AI to KK, but that shouldn't be used as a true barometer, just look what happened to the cats last week (and this was one of the greatest ever minor teams they've produced according to one of that management teams at the time).

I think we'll line out something like
1. Ronan Taffe
2. Paul Flanagan
3. David MacInerney
4. Jack Browne
5. Seadna Morey
6. Jamie Shanahan
7. Stephen O Halloran
8. Colm Galvin
9. Tony Kelly
10. Peter Duggan
11. Paudge Collins
12. Arron Cunningham
13. Shane O Donnell
14. Daire Keane
15. Cathal O Connell

6 and 8 could change with Galvin going to centre back if needs be. Very strong bench also and afaik, no injury worries, Waterford will be without that lad that came on and went straight off last Sat evening. They've a few lads that were very impressive V KK also for this grade.
These two teams at minor were pretty closely matched but last year we had it easy V Waterford in Ennis. I'm expecting a different situation Thursday evening in Walsh Park.

Hidalgo · 16-07-2013 09:44AM

keeponhurling wrote: »

I agree.
At start of the season we would have been among the favourites for relegation from Div 1, so we did well to stay up. Not easy for lads going from Div 2 to Div 1 standard.

The Waterford game would have been a 50/50 game, so happy to have won that, especially after so many years with a Munster SHC win.

Cork was disappointing, especially the manner of defeat, but beating Laois so convincingly was good. (Laois gave Galway a right scare in their match.)
Then a win over Wexford is good too, get into the habit of winning.

I think we have a right good chance of beating Galway, but even if we don't I'd still be reasonably satisfied with the season.

Having to go to extra time V Wexford might be a blessing in disguise, might push Cathal Mac to at least close to getting a run, he always seems to link up well with McGrath, both well used to playing alongside each other

Mountainlad · 16-07-2013 10:35AM

Martin O Neill is overage for u21. But we'll be without Paudi Mahony (captain) and Gavin O Brien (vice captain) as wel sa Eoin Madigan who all played last year. In addtition to them, Brian O Halloran is overage from last year. I felt this Waterford u21 team as a minor team was the strongest we had up until this years and at home they will hopefully push ye all the way. Still ye are deserving favourites.

Clareman · 16-07-2013 12:06PM

Hidalgo wrote: »

I wouldn't say we're doing well per say, to argue that we have to beat another big team i.e Galway.

We got the nicest possible draw in the qualifiers, but we still have glaring problems. Most notably our half backline. According to an interview in yesterday's Examiner, Davy feels the only genuine hurling people in the county are the ones that post-Cork defeat told him to stick to the system and its working etc.
In other words, anyone that doubts his message isn't a genuine fan, that kind of mentality is worrying for me, and its no surprise we continue to struggle in the same areas.

Then the only genuine hurling people are those in his backroom team cause they are the only people I've been talking to that have said that it's working. EVERYONE seems to be of the impression that this "get the ball, beat a man, pass the ball to make space" style will only work up to a certain level of county (no offence Wexford, Waterford, Laois) but when you get up against bigger/fitter/faster teams that are used to playing against different styles then you will get shown up.

Mountainlad · 16-07-2013 12:10PM

Clareman wrote: »

Then the only genuine hurling people are those in his backroom team cause they are the only people I've been talking to that have said that it's working. EVERYONE seems to be of the impression that this "get the ball, beat a man, pass the ball to make space" style will only work up to a certain level of county (no offence Wexford, Waterford, Laois) but when you get up against bigger/fitter/faster teams that are used to playing against different styles then you will get shown up.

To be honest, I don't think it even did really work against Waterford. And again you could argue it didn't against Wexford, they fashioned a draw out of game they were easily 6 points the worse team. The build up play is too slow give the pace in the Clare forward line.

Hidalgo · 16-07-2013 01:04PM

Clareman wrote: »

Then the only genuine hurling people are those in his backroom team cause they are the only people I've been talking to that have said that it's working. EVERYONE seems to be of the impression that this "get the ball, beat a man, pass the ball to make space" style will only work up to a certain level of county (no offence Wexford, Waterford, Laois) but when you get up against bigger/fitter/faster teams that are used to playing against different styles then you will get shown up.

Davy said lots of people told him to stick with the plan in the aftermath of the Cork game.
We're simply not physically strong enough to break tackles.

Large part of the reason it worked v Waterford was thanks to inefficent shooting by Waterford to keep us in the game.
V Cork, it was the opposite way around

Tssk · 16-07-2013 02:07PM

Cathal Mac and Mcgrath are a great tandem, they should both start next day out

premierstone · 16-07-2013 05:16PM

Clareman wrote: »

Then the only genuine hurling people are those in his backroom team cause they are the only people I've been talking to that have said that it's working. EVERYONE seems to be of the impression that this "get the ball, beat a man, pass the ball to make space" style will only work up to a certain level of county (no offence Wexford, Waterford, Laois) but when you get up against bigger/fitter/faster teams that are used to playing against different styles then you will get shown up.

Absolutely spot on Clareman you have hit the nail on the head there and the 'system' if you can call it that will work against a certain level of opposition but against the top teams its far too predictable and easy to counteract, I mean if you know exactly what the man in possesion is going to do its very easy to stop him/intercept him etc.

Paul Flynn summed it up perfectly at the weekend, hurling is a reaction game was the term he used, instinctive is the3 term I would use, but essentially players need to be trusted to adapt as the game unfolds and hurl a little off the cuff, the Clare players don't seem to have that freedom and they look like they are been suffocated.

Clareman · 17-07-2013 12:26PM

premierstone wrote: »

Absolutely spot on Clareman you have hit the nail on the head there and the 'system' if you can call it that will work against a certain level of opposition but against the top teams its far too predictable and easy to counteract, I mean if you know exactly what the man in possesion is going to do its very easy to stop him/intercept him etc.

Paul Flynn summed it up perfectly at the weekend, hurling is a reaction game was the term he used, instinctive is the3 term I would use, but essentially players need to be trusted to adapt as the game unfolds and hurl a little off the cuff, the Clare players don't seem to have that freedom and they look like they are been suffocated.

Next time you're watching a Clare match have a look at whoever is taking a free/sideline, they will always look to the sideline to get advice, which is baffling for me cause when Davy was a player he refused to take advice on what to do with the puckouts

Hidalgo · 18-07-2013 10:56AM

Not sure if this is official, but I've been told this is the team for tonight V Waterford.

Ronan Taafe
Paul Flanagan
David mcInerney
Jack Browne
Seadna Morey
Alan O Neill
Stephen O halloran
Colm Galvin
Tony Kelly
Peter Duggan
Podge Collins
Arron Cunningham
Cathal O Connell
Daire Keane
Shane O Donnell

The main losses from last year's team being the creativity and finishing ability of Conor McGrath and Cathal MacInerney and the physical presence of CConor Ryan and Shane Golden.

The matchup between Podge Collins and Darragh Fives will be interesting, bot had a long evening Saturday.

Thinkstoomuch · 18-07-2013 11:17AM

Hidalgo wrote: »

Not sure if this is official, but I've been told this is the team for tonight V Waterford.

Ronan Taafe
Paul Flanagan
David mcInerney
Jack Browne
Seadna Morey
Alan O Neill
Stephen O halloran
Colm Galvin
Tony Kelly
Peter Duggan
Podge Collins
Arron Cunningham
Cathal O Connell
Daire Keane
Shane O Donnell

The main losses from last year's team being the creativity and finishing ability of Conor McGrath and Cathal MacInerney and the physical presence of CConor Ryan and Shane Golden.

The matchup between Podge Collins and Darragh Fives will be interesting, bot had a long evening Saturday.

Sum team.,..ye confident?

Kelly will have a big role tonight.

Hidalgo · 18-07-2013 11:24AM

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Sum team.,..ye confident?

Kelly will have a big role tonight.

If we play to our potential it'll take a serious team to stop us, then again I'd have thought the same before last year's Munster Final and we were blessed to scrape a win in a game we never got motoring.

If Kelly and Galvin dominate the middle sector, I'd be quitely confident.

Away from home will make it tough. I thought we would be at a disadvantage after our lads had extra time Sat V Wexford, but as things turned out, Waterford ended up the same.
Huge incentive for Waterford, if they win tonight they've Tipp at home in the final also.

keeponhurling · 23-07-2013 03:28AM

When is the Munster U21 final being played?

sasol · 23-07-2013 07:15AM

keeponhurling wrote: »

When is the Munster U21 final being played?

August 7th in Thurles

Warper · 23-07-2013 04:23PM

Anyone know is Honan fit?

sasol · 23-07-2013 04:39PM

50/50 from what I heard.
Groin injury.

premierstone · 23-07-2013 04:49PM

keeponhurling wrote: »

When is the Munster U21 final being played?

sasol wrote: »

August 7th in Thurles

Will be put back to the following week if Clare manage to beat Galway, but is provisionally fixed for the 7th

sasol · 23-07-2013 06:52PM

Premierstone - is that for definite (putting back the game if Clare win) ?

We were in a similar situation in 1995, when we were due to go to Thurles for an U21 final, 4 days before the All-Ireland semi and Clare could not get it put back. The Clare U21's played without their senior panelists that evening.

Its a bit premature to be looking ahead I guess - Galway may put our worries to bed in relation to having to put the 21 game back :-)

premierstone · 23-07-2013 08:20PM

sasol wrote: »

Premierstone - is that for definite (putting back the game if Clare win) ?

We were in a similar situation in 1995, when we were due to go to Thurles for an U21 final, 4 days before the All-Ireland semi and Clare could not get it put back. The Clare U21's played without their senior panelists that evening.

Its a bit premature to be looking ahead I guess - Galway may put our worries to bed in relation to having to put the 21 game back :-)

It's what I was told at a club fixture meeting last Monday night when we were trying to find a free date for a club final.

keeponhurling · 24-07-2013 03:56AM

So big question now is can get we past Galway ?!

It's a big ask, and Galway will probably go in as favourites.
Based on our performances so far this year, it's hard to see us winning, but then again Galway need to up their game as well.
I'd be concerned that Galway were always aiming to peak later in the summer though, so might have an extra gear that we don't.

Not sure if Honan being injured is too big a factor, we do seem to have healthy competition in the forward line. McInerney might even start.

It'll be interesting to see where Joe Canning lines out, and who has the task of marking him. Keep him quiet and we have a chance.

Clareman · 24-07-2013 09:54AM

I think we've every chance of beating Galway, they are coming into the game very cold whereas we've had twice the number of games than them and we've also had players playing under 21. The most important aspect of the game for us defensively will be to limit the goal chances that Canning get, our full back line has been dodgy all year, this will be a massive test for them. We'll also have to convert whatever goal chances we get, as a team managed by a former All Star goalie I can't believe we aren't cuter when taking our shots.

Finally, we have to let Ryan take the short range frees, the guy has a rocket of a shot and Tony Kelly has a very poor return from all the shots he's taking (1 against Dublin last year I think).

[-0-] · 24-07-2013 01:42PM

My heart says yes but the head says no. Galway are always capable of a performance similar to the one they pulled off when they beat Kilkenny. If that Galway team shows up we're done for.

Don't forget how Cork destroyed us in the second half as well. We can't just brush that under the carpet. If that starts to happen against Galway, then I fear we will only win if Davy has the balls to abandon his 'system' and let the lads play decent traditional hurling.

Warper · 24-07-2013 03:53PM

Ya the shackles will have to come off i feel. We are so talented they should not be hindered by a rigid system. That said, we are creating more scoring chances than any other team in the country. It was around 50 for a good few matches this year. I find us frustrating to watch sometimes as we seem to pass when we shouldn't and not pass when we should.

Galway are totally inconsistent so no one knows what Galway side turn up. If we can keep Canning from scoring goals then i think we will win. Should be a cracker.

Mountainlad · 24-07-2013 04:01PM

Warper wrote: »

Ya the shackles will have to come off i feel. We are so talented they should not be hindered by a rigid system. That said, we are creating more scoring chances than any other team in the country. It was around 50 for a good few matches this year. I find us frustrating to watch sometimes as we seem to pass when we shouldn't and not pass when we should.

Galway are totally inconsistent so no one knows what Galway side turn up. If we can keep Canning from scoring goals then i think we will win. Should be a cracker.

Are ye creating that many more scoring chances, or are ye just taking a lot of pot shots?

keeponhurling · 25-07-2013 04:42AM

Clareman wrote: »

our full back line has been dodgy all year, ).

has it?

Hidalgo · 25-07-2013 08:45AM

Clareman wrote: »

I think we've every chance of beating Galway, they are coming into the game very cold whereas we've had twice the number of games than them and we've also had players playing under 21. The most important aspect of the game for us defensively will be to limit the goal chances that Canning get, our full back line has been dodgy all year, this will be a massive test for them. We'll also have to convert whatever goal chances we get, as a team managed by a former All Star goalie I can't believe we aren't cuter when taking our shots.

Finally, we have to let Ryan take the short range frees, the guy has a rocket of a shot and Tony Kelly has a very poor return from all the shots he's taking (1 against Dublin last year I think).

Our FB line has been a problem, but they aren't getting much help from the three outside them. V Waterford, the silly goal conceded came from our centre back.
V Cork, our FB line did well enough considering we were wiped out in the half back line. When that happens, the three inside are merely fighting fires.
A lot will depend on where Canning plays, the further out the field the better.

Re Kelly, his style is poor for 21s. He throws the ball so far in front that it affects power. In trying to gain yardage he's losing power. As you say, Ryan would be a better option. For me, Duggan might have the best strike, going from club level, different kind of pressure though.

sasol · 25-07-2013 08:55AM

I think our full back line have done reasonably well. Our problems lie further out the field.

Dillon has been hurling very well at corner back since his return from injury. O'Donovan has been very stylish, sometimes I wonder if he would be more suited to a wing back role.

For a young lad, I think McInerney has done well. He is not there physically yet, but that will come. I do think he has room for improvement under the high ball and if Canning was on him it would be a worry at this stage of his development. Althought I think Dillon will be given the job of man marking Canning.

Hidalgo · 25-07-2013 11:55AM

sasol wrote: »

I think our full back line have done reasonably well. Our problems lie further out the field.

Dillon has been hurling very well at corner back since his return from injury. O'Donovan has been very stylish, sometimes I wonder if he would be more suited to a wing back role.

For a young lad, I think McInerney has done well. He is not there physically yet, but that will come. I do think he has room for improvement under the high ball and if Canning was on him it would be a worry at this stage of his development. Althought I think Dillon will be given the job of man marking Canning.

McInerney has done well considering how difficult a position full back is to fill. Arguable the hardest on the pitch in my experience. What's especially impressive is that 3 years ago he came on as a sub in a minor AI....... at wing forward. He was only converted to FB for the U 21s as an experiment such was the lack of players for the position.

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