Motors Chat Thread Round 4

Veloce · 19-07-2013 02:30PM

Matt Simis wrote: »

Virtually all petrol fuel here is 95Octane, with Maxol's E5 being described as 99.2Octane, though in reality seems to be around 97Octane.

Cars that will have a (serious) problem with this are limited to Jap (JDM) imports running 100-Octane fuel maps on their ECU. These cars should get a 95Octane map or run water-meth injection and 97Octane E5.

Check out the first post on this threda: http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/56308-what-can-happen-if-you-run-your-zed-on-95-ron/

I don't even think it is limited to JDM 350 Zeds! As mine is an irish car registered from new, I would imagine most if not all of it's refills were 95 Octane.

Matt Simis · 19-07-2013 02:40PM

Veloce wrote: »

Check out the first post on this threda: http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/56308-what-can-happen-if-you-run-your-zed-on-95-ron/

I don't even think it is limited to JDM 350 Zeds! As mine is an irish car registered from new, I would imagine most if not all of it's refills were 95 Octane.

Wouldnt worry about it. The 350Z was designed for the US market, which historically has a range of fuel and generally poorer quality fuels than here (so there is no chance they would cripple it by needing sometimes unavailable high octane fuel). The VQ35DE engine in a 350z is an "off the shelf" engine from Nissan parts, its not a tuned to the hilt race spec engine and doesnt have any particular issues like this. Its used in the following models:

US
2001–2004 Nissan Pathfinder (240 hp)
2013–present Nissan Pathfinder (260 hp)
2001–2004 Infiniti QX4 (240 hp)
2002–2004 Infiniti I35 (255 hp)
2002–present Nissan Altima (240 to 270 hp)
2002–present Nissan Maxima (255 to 290 hp)
2003–2006 Nissan 350Z (287 to 300 hp)
2003–2007 Infiniti G35 (260 to 298 hp) all models
2003–2008 Infiniti FX35 (275 hp)
2003–present Nissan Murano (Z50) (240 to 265 hp)
2004–present Nissan Quest (235 to 260 hp)
2006–2008 Infiniti M35 (275 to 280 hp)
2013–present Infiniti JX35 (265 hp)

JDM and other markets
2000–present Nissan Elgrand 240 PS (180 kW; 240 hp)
2001–2007 Nissan Stagea 272 PS (200 kW; 268 hp) and above
2001–2009 Renault Vel Satis 241 PS (177 kW; 238 hp)
2002–2007 Nissan Skyline (V35) 272 PS (200 kW; 268 hp) and above
2003–present Nissan Teana/Cefiro (350JM-J31) 231 PS (170 kW; 228 hp)
2003–2009 Nissan Presage (231 hp)
2003–present Renault Espace 241 PS (177 kW; 238 hp)
2004–2007 Nissan Fuga 350 GT 280 PS (210 kW; 280 hp)
2005–2006 Nismo Fairlady Z S-Tune GT 300 PS (220 kW; 300 hp) (VQ35DE S1 engine)
2006–present Renault Samsung SM7 217 PS (160 kW; 214 hp) (Neo VQ35)
2008–present Renault Laguna Coupé 241 PS (177 kW; 238 hp)
2010–present Renault Latitude 253 PS (186 kW; 250 hp)

The point of higher octane is to reduce/eliminate knocking and pre-ignition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
Given the wide range of applications (of the engine), target market and the fact the engine has knock detection sensors, the problems in that post likely are some chemical reaction or corrosion (such as the MOS2 getting stripped from the piston somehow) and not a fuel Octane specific issue.

It should only be an issue on 100 Octane JDM specific maps that either ignore the knock sensor or dont have a safe enough fall back for lower octane fuel. Your Irish (or UK, EU, US) Zed wont have this problem, though look up the "2-stroke added to petrol" trick and/or add Liquimoly MOS2 (or Ceratec) to your engine Oil for piece of mind.

Veloce · 19-07-2013 02:55PM

Matt Simis wrote: »

Wouldnt worry about it. The 350Z was designed for the US market, which historically has a range of fuel and generally poorer quality fuels than here (so there is no chance they would cripple it by needing sometimes unavailable high octane fuel). The VQ35DE engine in a 350z is an "off the shelf" engine from Nissan parts, its not a tuned to the hilt race spec engine and doesnt have any particular issues like this. Its used in the following models:

The point of higher octane is to reduce/eliminate knocking and pre-ignition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
Given the wide range of applications (of the engine), target market and the fact the engine has knock detection sensors, the problems in that post likely are some chemical reaction or corrosion (such as the MOS2 getting stripped from the piston somehow) and not a fuel Octane specific issue.

It should only be an issue on 100 Octane JDM specific maps that either ignore the knock sensor or dont have a safe enough fall back for lower octane fuel. Your Irish (or UK, EU, US) Zed wont have this problem, though look up the "2-stroke added to petrol" trick and/or add Liquimoly MOS2 (or Ceratec) to your engine Oil for piece of mind.

Fantastic bit of information there Matt. I forgot how many applications the VQ35DE was used in. From the technical info it looks like the knock sensor works up until about 5,200 rpm. The UK boys seem to be making a big issue about it!

Chris_Heilong · 19-07-2013 03:27PM

I heard all petrol is now around 97/98 octane because of the ethanol used, so its all E5 but only Maxol are using it as a marketing tool.

dgt · 19-07-2013 03:28PM

Matt Simis wrote: »

Virtually all petrol fuel here is 95Octane, with Maxol's E5 being described as 99.2Octane, though in reality seems to be around 97Octane.

Cars that will have a (serious) problem with this are limited to Jap (JDM) imports running 100-Octane fuel maps on their ECU. These cars should get a 95Octane map or run water-meth injection and 97Octane E5.

W126 280SE runs on 98 RON. We run it on BP Ultimate with octane booster, close enough

Veloce · 19-07-2013 03:33PM

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I heard all petrol is now around 97/98 octane because of the ethanol used, so its all E5 but only Maxol are using it as a marketing tool.

From Maxol's website:

"What is the Octane Rating of E5 compared to ordinary Unleaded?

The Octane Rating of Ordinary unleaded ranges from 95.0 to 95.9 – average 95.5. The Octane rating of E5 is higher and has been measured at 99."

Matt Simis · 19-07-2013 03:40PM

dgt wrote: »

W126 280SE runs on 98 RON. We run it on BP Ultimate with octane booster, close enough

Thats a freak case though, probably as it doesnt have knock sensors and generally is old and designed for leaded fuel originally.
Does it have the EZL adjustment knob? Set it to N for "regular" fuel:

Given that my W126 560SEC didnt need 98octane, its fairly preposterous that the 280 did/does.

Veloce wrote: »

From Maxol's website:
"What is the Octane Rating of E5 compared to ordinary Unleaded?
The Octane Rating of Ordinary unleaded ranges from 95.0 to 95.9 – average 95.5. The Octane rating of E5 is higher and has been measured at 99."

Yeah but some of the tuners here measured it and its said to be about 97 Octane. Bear in mind that Ethanol blends are dryer than "proper" petrol, which is what the 0.2% per volume of 2stroke trick aims to address (lubricity).

PS: Where is KKV, missing all this Merc love?

Tallon · 19-07-2013 03:52PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Is it not all 98 unleaded? (Excuse my ignorance, havent had a petrol car in years :P )

Oh yeah, that's right, you drive a diesel or something? Right?

Chris_Heilong · 19-07-2013 03:56PM

Veloce wrote: »

From Maxol's website:

"What is the Octane Rating of E5 compared to ordinary Unleaded?

The Octane Rating of Ordinary unleaded ranges from 95.0 to 95.9 – average 95.5. The Octane rating of E5 is higher and has been measured at 99."

It has been measured at 99 but the longer fuel lays up unused the more octane it loses, so by the time its been sitting at the pumps it could be around 97/98. Also they stared using E5 first so when they wrote that line about ordinary Unleaded it may have been true, but now a days in Ireland almost all petrol is made using a blend of additives including ethanol which is the same process as Maxol use to make E5.

Victor Meldrew · 19-07-2013 04:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Mercedes are, from what I can see, the new 'exclusive' brand, for the most part. I'd say Lexus seem to have that kind of an image, too, but they're still more in BMW territory in my opinion. And I am entitled to my opinion.

I'd kind of agree. But in part it is because Mercs are more of an "auld lad's car", and, BMW's are more youthful.

Agree that the tiger era swelled the national fleet of BMW's, but in the UK, at one stage, the 3 series outsold the Mondeo.

I've always liked certain Mercs, and I would have driven one in my late 20's, but now, noseing up to the big 40, I just can't bring myself to drive a merc..

Veloce · 19-07-2013 04:12PM

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It has been measured at 99 but the longer fuel lays up unused the more octane it loses, so by the time its been sitting at the pumps it could be around 97/98. Also they stared using E5 first so when they wrote that line about ordinary Unleaded it may have been true, but now a days in Ireland almost all petrol is made using a blend of additives including ethanol which is the same process as Maxol use to make E5.

I should be grand so......... I'll let you know if a piston goes bang :pac:

Toyotafanboi · 19-07-2013 04:33PM

just done an airport run in the mammys yaris earlier today. pretty much motorway door to door keeping between 60 and 75mph...

i don't know whats more shocking the mpg figure or the external temperature.

CianRyan · 19-07-2013 05:01PM

Both unreal, but does it have air con?

Toyotafanboi · 19-07-2013 05:04PM

no, no it does not. it was boiling in there even with the fans on and window down.

wished i took the glanza for the a/c and the bit of poke but i'm trying to avoid drving it until i know where it's at.

i'm rarely on the 3 lane part of the m50 but my god, i now see your point about the middle lane hoggers. sweet jesus.

CianRyan · 19-07-2013 05:08PM

Oh tell me about it, I've been driving down the M50 at full pelt with both my windows open, it's so hot.
The faster I drive the cooler it gets.

Yeah, lane hoggers are right bell ends, people do seem to be learning though, I've had people move left when I'm coming up behind them quite a lot lately.

ShadowHearth · 19-07-2013 06:45PM

We, "subaru Boy racer drivers" make the least amount of insurance claims. :pac:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/motorinsurance/10188282/Boy-racer-Subaru-drivers-make-fewest-claims.html

Maybe this is the reason why I pay 699eu insurance this year?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 19-07-2013 06:49PM

CianRyan wrote: »

Oh tell me about it, I've been driving down the M50 at full pelt with both my windows open, it's so hot.
The faster I drive the cooler it gets.

Yeah, lane hoggers are right bell ends, people do seem to be learning though, I've had people move left when I'm coming up behind them quite a lot lately.

Lane hogging you say ?

I came from the red cow junction of the m50 to airport exit today.... followed an ambulance all the way across with blue flashy lights, kept a nice 140kph going all the way thanks to the lovely paramedic

colm_mcm · 19-07-2013 07:03PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

just done an airport run in the mammys yaris earlier today. pretty much motorway door to door keeping between 60 and 75mph...

i don't know whats more shocking the mpg figure or the external temperature.

Yaris trip computers are all over the place. Not to be trusted.

MetzgerMeister · 19-07-2013 07:08PM

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yaris trip computers are all over the place. Not to be trusted.

Shur wasn't BW getting 80 mpg in his mother's Yaris at one stage?? :pac:

Max Power1 · 19-07-2013 08:02PM

I was on the m50 northbound from bray to the n7 intersection, the amount of lanehoggers was unreal.

One in a yaris, who, when I undertook her and sounded the horn, looked at me as if to say "wtf". Eh, you are hogging the overtaking lane, moron!! Was going to post it in R&R but this will do.

Autosport · 19-07-2013 08:16PM

Cork I salute you, beautiful city, love the accent ;-) Jack Lynch tunnel with the windows down listening to an Impreza was just heavenly. I couldn't pick between Cork or Galway as they both are gorgeous cities, next on my list is Tipp.

Car has now reached 16,500kms

CianRyan · 19-07-2013 08:46PM

+1 like for the tunnel run, -1 like for Cork.

toastedpickles · 19-07-2013 09:34PM

CianRyan wrote: »

+1 like for the tunnel run, -1000 like for Cork.

just done some adjustments there cian :pac:

Max Power1 · 19-07-2013 09:57PM

toastedpickles wrote: »

just done some adjustments there cian :pac:

Those adjustments don't look very oem :P

Supergurrier · 19-07-2013 09:59PM

Maxol E5 is 97 octane at most

I run it when I can an there is no difference at all day to day

toastedpickles · 19-07-2013 10:01PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Those adjustments don't look very oem :P

What they don't know won't hurt them

TestTransmission · 19-07-2013 10:11PM

CianRyan wrote: »

+1 like for the tunnel run, -1 like for Cork.

Talking about tunnel runs, did you buy the car?

MetzgerMeister · 19-07-2013 10:30PM

Supergurrier wrote: »

Maxol E5 is 97 octane at most

I run it when I can an there is no difference at all day to day

Usually if you have used 95 octane for a prolonged period, your fuel trims will have gotten used to it and worked out a certain AFR. In order to get the benefits of a higher octane, you usually have to disconnect the battery for a certain length of time (it was an hour in the MPS) to reset the fuel trims in the ECU's long term memory and let it work again with the higher octane.

To be honest, the difference won't be noticeable with your butt dyno.

Autosport · 19-07-2013 10:31PM

Ah now nothing wrong with Cork, a big + 1 million from me ðŸ˜Ž

Bpmull · 19-07-2013 10:51PM

Autosport wrote: »

Cork I salute you, beautiful city, love the accent ;-) Jack Lynch tunnel with the windows down listening to an Impreza was just heavenly. I couldn't pick between Cork or Galway as they both are gorgeous cities, next on my list is Tipp.

Car has now reached 16,500kms

Try sitting at the dunkettle interchange on a Monday morning at 8 am during school terms

Most of the time I stop at the sign which says 1km from roundabout sometimes before it :eek: some serious traffic. All though it probably seems worse to me as Kilkenny has literally no traffic jams. It's great. The jack lynch tunnel is nice to go through though when its not busy.

****Motors Chat Thread Round 4****

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Motors Chat Thread Round 4