Frank Lee Midere wrote: » He was saying they weren't atheists. Which is true of Mussolini, jury's out on Hitler.
Sierra Oscar wrote: » I think you are taking things out of context somewhat. This post sums up the situation well. He meant that at the time that the Church viewed them as 'Good Christians'. Still a silly remark to make from a PR perspective. Indeed. History has shown that Mussolini had very close links with the Vatican. Don't think that was the case with Hitler though, although he was still a self proclaimed Christian.
raymon wrote: » I think you are being disingenuous here in saying that it was taken out of context. Thus guy has had outbursts about Jews before. " The massive Jewish vote in the United States of America influences government policy and Obama is now a tool of the Israeli State. It is not a question of “Yes, we can”, but “No, we will not”. Or how about he called into question Shatter's objectivity on the Palestinian issue because he is Jewish Come on just because he is FF doesn't mean you have to defend him
regress wrote: » Hitler was a roman catholic who met Pope Pius XIII on numerous occasions. That fact cannot be disputed. The Catholic Church's role in the holocaust is shameful. They stayed silent even as Jews were rounded up in Rome and put on a train to Auswitz. The theological argument that the Jews killed Jesus and had to be punished was used as theological basis for the holocaust by the Nazis. Have you visited the catholic churches where extermination camp guards went to mass every Sunday. After the war it was the Pope and the Vatican that helped high ranking nazis escape to south america. The argument that the catholic church and the pope stayed silent on the holocaust to "help" Jews is deeply insulting and just plain wrong
Frank Lee Midere wrote: » None of this is true either. The nazis were generally Protestants, I don't think the Pope met Hitler, Catholic papers were shut down, catholic priests were massacred in Poland (about 90% of them) there was a Nazi Lutheran church however. The Pope did criticize Naziism and rescued Jews in Rome. He was even honored by Israel after the war.
regress wrote: » Hitler was a roman catholic who met Pope Pius XII in numerous occasions. That fact cannot be disputed.
jhegarty wrote: » He was the papal nuncio to Germany before the war, so he would have meet Hitler then as part of his job. But he wasn't pope at the time so your statement isn't correct.
regress wrote: » No. He wasn't Pope at the time. Eugueino Pacelli only became Pope in 1938. But it is still the same man. And his time in Gemany also discredits the 'naive innocent' argument.
jhegarty wrote: » 1. It was 1939 2. Pope is a job/title , not a person. The Pope did not meet Hitler.
regress wrote: » All of the above is true. Face the facts. In relation to the points you make. Many German soldiers were Protestants but most of the top Nazis including Hitlet and the majority of the Gestapo were roman catholic. The Catholic press that was shut down was too independent. There is even an argument that the Vatican asked the Nazis to shut it down to stifle criticism. Individual catholic priests who opposed the Nazis and who did not have the support of the Vatican were killed. The silence of the Pope while this was happening is damning Pope Pius XIi had numerous meetings with Hitler in Germany in the 30's This is historical fact. The Jews of Rome were rounded up in 1943. They were kept there for a week in case the Pope was forced to comment. He refused to do so and they were all put on a train to Autswitz. The Pope or the catholic church never explicitly criticized the extermination of the Jews. There are a few very vague lines in encyclicals that have been interpreted as subtle criticism but I doubt anyone thought they didn't approve of the extermination of Jews at the time.
Frank Lee Midere wrote: » I should also point out that Catholic conservatives voted for the Centre party - which was the one Conservative party to not see it's vote decline as Nazzism increased in strength, and the Nazis power base was Protestant Prussia. This kinda Catholic = Nazi thing used to be believed by the lunatic far right of the unionists in NI. It's a remarkable fact it has become mainstream.
Manach wrote: » in order to safe guard the Catholic community in general, according to various sources To say they gave theological support to them is unfounded, uncreditable and utterly unhistoric.
Frank Lee Midere wrote: » The criticism is hardly subtle. h the Vatican sought to protect the Church in Germany, and Hitler sought the destruction of 'political Catholicism'. A pre-war critic of Nazism, Pius lobbied world leaders to avoid war and, as Pope at the outbreak of war, issued Pontificatus, expressing dismay at the invasion of Poland, reiterating church teaching against racism and calling for love, compassion and charity to prevail over war. and The Pope employed the new technology of radio and a series of Christmas messages to preach against selfish nationalism and the evils of modern warfare and offer sympathy to the victims of the war.[135]Pius XII's 1942 Christmas address via Vatican Radio voiced concern at human rights abuses and the murder of innocents based on race. The majority of the speech spoke generally about human rights and civil society; at the very end of the speech, Pius XII mentioned "the hundreds of thousands of persons who, without any fault on their part, sometimes only because of their nationality or race, have been consigned to death or to a slow decline".[178] According to Rittner, the speech remains a "lightning rod" in debates about Pius XII. [179] The Nazis themselves responded to the speech by stating that it was "one long attack on everything we stand for....He is clearly speaking on behalf of the Jews....He is virtually accusing the German people of injustice toward the Jews, and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals." The New York Times wrote that "The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas....In calling for a 'real new order' based on 'liberty, justice and love,'...the pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism. Hardly subtle. The church was walking a dangerous ground, the Nazis were more anti Catholic than anti any other Christian religion and the church was worried for its members. In fact Germany had nazified the Lutheran Church, and liquidated 90% of Polish Catholic priests including the hierarchy. Hardly the work of pro-Catholics. If anything Hitlerism was a Protestant heresy. Most nationalisms are.
regress wrote: » Hitler was a roman catholic who met Pope Pius XII in numerous occasions. That fact cannot be disputed. The Catholic Church's role in the holocaust is shameful. They stayed silent even as Jews were rounded up in Rome and put on a train to Auswitz. The theological argument that the Jews killed Jesus and had to be punished was used as theological basis for the holocaust by the Nazis. Have you visited the catholic churches where extermination camp guards went to mass every Sunday. After the war it was the Pope and the Vatican that helped high ranking nazis escape to south america. The argument that the catholic church and the pope stayed silent on the holocaust to "help" Jews is deeply insulting and just plain wrong
regress wrote: » Roman Catholics who expressed doubts about the mass slaughter of Jews were told by their priests to look to the bible which is the word of god. They were told that they were doing gods work. The holocaust would not have been possible without the roman Catholics that carried it out.
Adolf Hitler wrote: The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity.
