Abortion Discussion

aloyisious · 10-07-2013 5:05pm

Lucinda's statement in the Dail a short while ago included a bit where she spoke to Dr Reilly. She used the words "Your Government" when referring to the bill.

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 5:05pm

Another few hours and it will all be over. They saying midnight or later now. Did anyone see them PRAYING outside the dail ffs.

Nodin · 10-07-2013 5:07pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Lucinda's statement in the Dail a short while ago included a bit where she spoke to Dr Reilly. She used the words "Your Government" when referring to the bill.

...saying they're 'under no obligation to legislate' and saying the supreme court was "wrong". Dear me.

Turtwig · 10-07-2013 5:07pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Another few hours and it will all be over. They saying midnight or later now. Did anyone see them PRAYING outside the dail ffs.

Yeah this one with Gandalf is confusing the heck out of me. I'm not sure if it's a poe or not.

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 5:08pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Lucinda's statement in the Dail a short while ago included a bit where she spoke to Dr Reilly. She used the words "Your Government" when referring to the bill.

Ah she needs to cop the **** on and That fool Mathews saying life begins at conception and ends in natural death. What if you get hit by a bus ffs theirs nothing natural about that.

shruikan2553 · 10-07-2013 5:08pm

Ah the religious ones, destroying any chance of taking their side seriously.

Is there anywhere to read the legislation they want to bring in? Or a shortened version

Jernal wrote: »

Yeah this one with Gandalf is confusing the heck out of me. I'm not sure if it's a poe or not.

Why is gandalf aborting jesus?

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 5:14pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Ah the religious ones, destroying any chance of taking their side seriously.

Is there anywhere to read the legislation they want to bring in? Or a shortened version

Why is gandalf aborting jesus?

Pro life = orcses in disguises my precious

Bannasidhe · 10-07-2013 5:19pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Ah the religious ones, destroying any chance of taking their side seriously.

Is there anywhere to read the legislation they want to bring in? Or a shortened version

Why is gandalf aborting jesus?

Are we sure that's not Dumbledore?

Turtwig · 10-07-2013 5:19pm

Holy Mother of Meatballs Batman! ! !

Michelle Mulherin looking like she's going to support the bill!:eek:

Nodin · 10-07-2013 5:20pm

Jernal wrote: »

Holy Mother of Meatballs Batman! ! !

Michelle Mulherin looking like she's going to support the bill!:eek:

....they must reckon Enda is serio about chucking them out and banning them from running.

Brown Bomber · 10-07-2013 5:22pm

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Thank you for that, BB.

While I'm not sure, having read the paper abstracts that the datasets are entirely comparable (i.e. premature birth is a medical emergency vs. a planned medical procedure) I do take your point about an increased risk of developmental problems due to the gestational age.

However, there are still three problems from my perspective. Firstly, a foetus which is viable but born with some developmental problems is still alive, that's something to be thankful for. Secondly, we don't have any data regarding viability of abortions performed in these periods, so we don't know how many, if any, could have been viable. Finally, the possible viability and risk of disability of the foetus must still be weighed against the risk to the health and life of the mother.

I concede all your points and accept your motivations as valid. At least you accept that there is a moral dilemma and there are other factors to be at least considered besides the mothers demands.

aloyisious · 10-07-2013 5:26pm

Jernal wrote: »

Holy Mother of Meatballs Batman! ! !

Michelle Mulherin looking like she's going to support the bill!:eek:

I thought I'd misheard the RTE bit on that. It said she said that she was not going to be BOOTED out of the party, or summat like that. Bit hearsay-ish but very interesting. I'm actually lucky to have caught it as I tried to throttle the radio earlier. Peter Matthews was "explaining" how the AG had explained the meaning of the bill to him, and he came to realise it did not contradict the 8th amendment or the Supreme Court ruling protecting the unborn. Poor Peter did not like the implications he felt were behind the wording of the interviewer's questions and the denial of wafflle-airtime.

maguic24 · 10-07-2013 5:46pm

aloyisious wrote: »

I thought I'd misheard the RTE bit on that. It said she said that she was not going to be thrown out of the party, or summat like that. Bit hearsay-ish but very interesting. I'm actually lucky to have caught it as I tried to throttle the radio earlier. Peter Matthews was "explaining" how the AG had explained the meaning of the bill to him, and he came to realise it did not contradict the 8th amendment or the Supreme Court ruling protecting the unborn. Poor Peter did not like the implications he felt were behind the wording of the interviewer's questions and the denial of wafflle-airtime.

Yeah, seems like she is.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/michelle-mulherin-to-support-abortion-bill-29411043.html

Mardy Bum · 10-07-2013 6:02pm

Michael Healy Rae said a fetus is the exact same as himself and James Reilly.

Delirium · 10-07-2013 6:03pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Michael Healy Rae said a fetus is the exact same as himself and James Reilly.

I wouldn't argue with that part :pac:

aloyisious · 10-07-2013 6:04pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Michael Healy Rae said a fetus is the exact same as himself and James Reilly.

Has he seen the YD poster?

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 6:09pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Michael Healy Rae said a fetus is the exact same as himself and James Reilly.

Keep the fetus and abort that whole family. Jesus if ever there were a bunch of gombeen muck savages that can give this country a bad name. No wonder people think we are backwards.

The Black Oil · 10-07-2013 6:35pm

Saw this in a thread in tLL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf8-wNL_m5w

Catholic Voices woman just basically repeats the arguments we've heard before. Pathetic to claim that FG are introducing the legislation to distract from the economic crisis.

Sarky · 10-07-2013 6:40pm

Embarrassingly full of lies and idiocy, isn't it?

ethical · 10-07-2013 6:42pm

You have got to admire the politicians that stuck to their guns whither you agree with their views or not.It was very disappointing to hear some others have put their careers before their views,I include here the West of Ireland TD that would have lost the chance to run for Europe if he had stuck to his 'no' ,he obviously thought of all the money he would loose if he stood up for what he believed in!

ethical · 10-07-2013 6:45pm

a lightweight who ,when push came to shove,she wilted,just like her Mayo colleague who has put his 'career' before his undoubted views.

The Black Oil · 10-07-2013 6:52pm

Have they started saying it has been railroaded through without proper debate, etc?

Zombrex · 10-07-2013 6:52pm

Sarky wrote: »

Embarrassingly full of lies and idiocy, isn't it?

The BBC piece makes it look like this is some sort of massive wedge issue in Ireland. It isn't at all, the vast vast vast majority of people support this. The only ones that don't are the "tens of thousands" of right-wing Catholics who are bussed around the country to every protest (paid for by US money) to make it look like there is spontaneous rejection of this legislation keep springing up.

Obliq · 10-07-2013 6:53pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I concede all your points and accept your motivations as valid. At least you accept that there is a moral dilemma and there are other factors to be at least considered besides the mothers demands.

In the interests of civility (and you have mentioned how you like a civil question...), perhaps you might refrain from leaving "mothers" outside of this moral dilemma you mention, as if it is no moral dilemma for the women experiencing a distressingly unwanted pregnancy?

Your argument comes across as particularly uncivilised when you separate the people who actually face these moral dilemmas (and other factors, as you rightly say) into "people who's motivations are valid" and "mother's demands". Thanks.

eireannBEAR · 10-07-2013 6:58pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Again stop ****ing twisting words to fit your own sick agenda. Show me where i said i think it would be funny to see PEACEFUL protesters attacked as well as wishing violence on them for peacefully protesting.

look at this.

Turtwig · 10-07-2013 7:00pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

look at this.

If this another one of your backseating moments then I am WARNING you to stop!

aloyisious · 10-07-2013 7:03pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

Saw this in a thread in tLL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf8-wNL_m5w

Catholic Voices woman just basically repeats the arguments we've heard before. Pathetic to claim that FG are introducing the legislation to distract from the economic crisis.

Well, we have it from the horse's mouth in that clip. The Catholic Voices rep said there was 35,000 people on the Pro-life rally. Nice that the O/P didn't fall for the trick question last put to her by the Beeb male interviewer and pointed out that the Irish Voter would have the last say on increasing any abortion rights. (6.03 on tape)

Now as for the photo-shot of the hatted bearded one at Leinster House, I can only hope that it is not used by the international media to portray the average Irish person in the debate.

Corkfeen · 10-07-2013 7:11pm

Clare Daly, Joan Collins, Richard BoydBarrett, Mick Wallace, Joe Higgins, Luke Flanagan are all supposed to vote against the bill because it doesn't go far enough.

I'd have to agree with the assessment. It treats the woman like a criminal and the measures for assessing suicidality seems impractical and excessive. However I think the current wording needs to pass, purely because it's liable to take another 20 years to make any progress on it otherwise.I think to vote against it is foolish and counterproductive. Hopefully we can see progress towards a referendum on fatal foetal abnormalities, rape and incest as they also need to be recognised. But Daly and Ming's way is far too risky...

maguic24 · 10-07-2013 7:29pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Clare Daly, Joan Collins, Richard BoydBarrett, Mick Wallace, Joe Higgins, Luke Flanagan are all supposed to vote against the bill because it doesn't go far enough.

I'd have to agree with the assessment. It treats the woman like a criminal and the measures for assessing suicidality seems impractical and excessive. However I think the current wording needs to pass, purely because it's liable to take another 20 years to make any progress on it otherwise.I think to vote against it is foolish and counterproductive. Hopefully we can see progress towards a referendum on fatal foetal abnormalities, rape and incest as they also need to be recognised.

That's ridiculous, I mean I don't think the bill goes far enough either but there's no point doing a de Valera on it!

aloyisious · 10-07-2013 7:31pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Clare Daly, Joan Collins, Richard BoydBarrett, Mick Wallace, Joe Higgins, Luke Flanagan are all supposed to vote against the bill because it doesn't go far enough.

I'd have to agree with the assessment. It treats the woman like a criminal and the measures for assessing suicidality seems impractical and excessive. However I think the current wording needs to pass, purely because it's liable to take another 20 years to make any progress on it otherwise.I think to vote against it is foolish and counterproductive. Hopefully we can see progress towards a referendum on fatal foetal abnormalities, rape and incest as they also need to be recognised.

OK, that might explain Mick's reference to how he couldn't advise his daughter to have an abortion. I'm hoping he mean's the bill deprives her and other women of further rights, re the denial of recognition to medically abnormal pregnancies, rape and incest pregnancies and the need to obviate pregnancies in those instances; as I may have taken him up wrong at first on his statement.

bumper234 · 10-07-2013 7:33pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

look at this.

Look at what?

The Black Oil · 10-07-2013 9:25pm

Looks like they're going to be discussing it for a while yet in the Dail.

Sarky · 10-07-2013 10:01pm

Perhaps the anti-choice loons think filibustering is something that actually works over here?

smokingman · 10-07-2013 10:02pm

Who'da thunk it?! Legislators a legislatin' 'til five in the morning!..in Ireland??!!

The Black Oil · 10-07-2013 10:04pm

Twitterland suggests it's not a debate - just people speechifying..?

Sarky · 10-07-2013 10:15pm

Same old bell-ends spouting the same old sh*te. Peter Matthews went full retard with talk of the collapse of society and such.

magicbastarder · 10-07-2013 10:16pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Clare Daly, Joan Collins, Richard BoydBarrett, Mick Wallace, Joe Higgins, Luke Flanagan are all supposed to vote against the bill because it doesn't go far enough.

christ almighty; did they honestly ****ing think that abortion on demand in ireland was going to arrive fully formed in a single bill?
FWIW, i think it was politically sensible not including TFMR issues in this bill - as this bill is to address supreme court/referendum/ECHR issues; so extending the scope past that is foolhardy in terms of opening it up for scrutiny which it is able to avoid for now.

people will wake up tomorrow to find the bill has passed, and that ireland has not fallen asunder in the process, which is the most important thing that can happen as a result of this bill.

IT-Guy · 10-07-2013 10:26pm

Watching Vinny B and going to stay calm with the help of a few well cooled beers! Dana is one of the panelists so this should be cringeworthy. She's already said the right to life is a god given right, the holy self righteousness is on display :pac:

BTW, where is the dail debate/grandstanding being broadcast?

Mardy Bum · 10-07-2013 10:38pm

Only Fidelma Healy Eames could make Mary Lou McDonald sound extremely intelligent and concise in making an argument.

(Vincent Brown now)

Sarky · 10-07-2013 11:15pm

Sounds like the anti-choice lot have completely lost the plot at this stage. Dana trying to argue with science? F*cking lol.

J0hnick · 10-07-2013 11:39pm

Whats Gandalf doing at the protest ?.

IT-Guy · 10-07-2013 11:41pm

Sarky wrote: »

Sounds like the anti-choice lot have completely lost the plot at this stage. Dana trying to argue with science? F*cking lol.

Dana is so out of her depth here, her little spiel about DNA and how fertilised ovums were people too was embarrassing :rolleyes:

IT-Guy · 10-07-2013 11:43pm

J0hnick wrote: »

Whats Gandalf doing at the protest ?.

Waiting for his moment to roar "you shall not pass" at the legislation? :pac:

Listrydude · 10-07-2013 11:44pm

Claire Byrne on RTE1 is looking tired!!

Hotblack Desiato · 10-07-2013 11:58pm

What the flip are RTE up to.

Radio 1 has effectively gone to bed for the night.

RTE1 has the same old taking heads that have been there all evening. Ronan Mullen makes me want to do an Elvis on the poor TV.

Why don't they dump the talking heads and just relay what's going on in the Dail. The feed is already there.

Embarrassment of a national broadcaster.

Zombrex · 11-07-2013 12:03am

IT-Guy wrote: »

Dana is so out of her depth here, her little spiel about DNA and how fertilised ovums were people too was embarrassing :rolleyes:

what the hell does that have to do with legislating what the 1983 constitution requires?

Corkfeen · 11-07-2013 12:03am

TV3 are just showing the Dáil. Really not sure if I can handle a night of this.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-07-2013 12:07am

What needs shouting from the rooftops, again and again, is that it is THEIR stupid 1983 referendum they imposed on this country aided by political cowardice, mass conformity (at least publicly) to catholic teaching no matter how heartless or bizarre, and of course tons of US money that got us into the situation where this legislation is now required.

This legislation has many objectionable elements, but with the constitution as it now stands, women can never quite be equal citizens. The 8th must go.

IT-Guy · 11-07-2013 12:21am

Zombrex wrote: »

what the hell does that have to do with legislating what the 1983 constitution requires?

F****d if I know Z, f****d if I know. Have switched over to primetime, interesting talk with 2 psychiatrists now

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 8:25am

Soooo - I was knackered and went to bed with me kindle (stop tittering in the cheap seats). Did I miss anything interesting?

Abortion Discussion

Comments