Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Anglo Tapes

1…1516182021…25

Comments

  • #512
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Not sure where your definition of "fitted up" comes from, but I've never seen it used as "portraying someone as having a particular personality".
    No, please read the post correctly. I am employing this interpretation in context of your other comments. In reply to my initial question about Drumm being fitted up, you said "some of the tapes are rather noticeably of little relevance to anything but making Drumm look bad". You said "It merely requires that tapes have been included that only "portray personality flaws, as opposed to raising corporate governance or legal issues"."

    So yes, you are involving a personality factor into Drumm being "fitted up". By now, you have undoubtedly realized that this is baseless, and are therefore seeking to alter the course of the debate.

    So tell me, what basis do you have for believing that the personality indicated on the tapes is "likely" to be different to Drumm's personality, i.e. on what basis is it probable that Drumm's personality has been "fitted up??


  • #513
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    No, please read the post correctly. I am employing this interpretation in context of your other comments. In reply to my initial question about Drumm being fitted up, you said "some of the tapes are rather noticeably of little relevance to anything but making Drumm look bad". You said "It merely requires that tapes have been included that only "portray personality flaws, as opposed to raising corporate governance or legal issues"."

    So yes, you are involving a personality factor into Drumm being "fitted up". By now, you have undoubtedly realized that this is baseless, and are therefore seeking to alter the course of the debate.

    So tell me, what basis do you have for believing that the personality indicated on the tapes is "likely" to be different to Drumm's personality, i.e. on what basis is it probable that Drumm's personality has been "fitted up??

    No, Cody, I'm afraid you simply didn't understand what I was saying, charged ahead without bothering to check, and now can't admit to being wrong. Please stop chasing your incorrect interpretation of my post, it's both tedious and derailing.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


  • #514
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    No, Cody, I'm afraid you simply didn't understand what I was saying, charged ahead without bothering to check, and now can't admit to being wrong. Please stop chasing your incorrect interpretation of my post, it's both tedious and derailing.
    No, I'm afraid this deserves some emphasis. You specifically suggested it is "likely" that drumm is being fitted up, and you have visibly made that suggestion in respect of Drumm's personality ("some of the tapes are rather noticeably of little relevance to anything but making Drumm look bad". Also, on 'fitting up, "It merely requires that tapes have been included that only "portray personality flaws, as opposed to raising corporate governance or legal issues".)

    Do you have a response or can it be taken that you're happy to withdraw such a ridiculous and baseless suggestion?


  • #515
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    No, I'm afraid this deserves some emphasis. You specifically suggested it is "likely" that drumm is being fitted up, and you have visibly made that suggestion in respect of Drumm's personality ("some of the tapes are rather noticeably of little relevance to anything but making Drumm look bad". Also, on 'fitting up, "It merely requires that tapes have been included that only "portray personality flaws, as opposed to raising corporate governance or legal issues".)

    Do you have a response or can it be taken that you're happy to withdraw such a ridiculous and baseless suggestion?

    Sigh. I'd be happy to ignore your pursuit of your own misreading of my post, certainly, but apparently you can't drop it.

    The reason it's interesting that the Indo is using tapes that portray only Drumm's less than pleasant character is because if you want to fit somebody up as the villain of the piece, you want them to sound like a bad person. That means throwing in "evidence" that's irrelevant to the actions you're trying to frame them for, but which allow everyone to agree that the person concerned is definitely not nice, and that nobody will be sad if they spend some time in jail, even if there's maybe some doubt over whether they're really guilty.

    "Fit somebody up" is used here, as throughout, in the ordinary informal English sense. That it doesn't ever have the meaning you took from it remains the point that needs emphasis.

    Please don't pursue this further - you took me up wrong, and that you cannot disengage or change your misinterpretation doesn't entitle you to spend time annoying other posters.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


  • #516
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    The reason it's interesting that the Indo is using tapes that portray only Drumm's less than pleasant character is because if you want to fit somebody up as the villain of the piece, you want them to sound like a bad person. That means throwing in "evidence" that's irrelevant to the actions you're trying to frame them for, but which allow everyone to agree that the person concerned is definitely not nice, and that nobody will be sad if they spend some time in jail, even if there's maybe some doubt over whether they're really guilty.
    The small number of tapes of limited relevance to the law, and the political and regulatory climate are nevertheless an important source in deducing the Executives' attitudes to regulatory and other relevant bodies, and any implications that might be drawn from these attitudes.

    You are now returning to your original proposition that the media "want [Drumm] to sound like a bad person", which chimes with your earlier comments on Drumm being "fitted up" as "likely". This is obviously nonsense.

    Any claim that Drumm's personality is something other than that which is heard on the tapes can not be taken as "likely".

    This is so because there is no evidence that these excerpts were chosen to portray a particular personality trait. All conversations which indicate disrespectful attitudes to those critical of Anglo, or of the Regulator are relevant on their own merit.

    This suggestion of a "likely" fitting up of Drumm is totally unfounded, and yet unsurprising.


  • Advertisement
  • #517
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    The small number of tapes of limited relevance to the law, and the political and regulatory climate are nevertheless an important source in deducing the Executives' attitudes to regulatory and other relevant bodies, and any implications that might be drawn from these attitudes.

    You are now returning to your original proposition that the media "want [Drumm] to sound like a bad person", which chimes with your earlier comments on Drumm being "fitted up" as "likely". This is obviously nonsense.

    Any claim that Drumm's personality is something other than that which is heard on the tapes can not be taken as "likely".

    This is so because there is no evidence that these excerpts were chosen to portray a particular personality trait. All conversations which indicate disrespectful attitudes to those critical of Anglo, or of the Regulator are relevant on their own merit.

    This suggestion of a "likely" fitting up of Drumm is totally unfounded, and yet unsurprising.

    And in the form you keep repeating, made by nobody but you. Please try not to include me further.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


  • #518
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    And in the form you keep repeating, made by nobody but you. Please try not to include me further.
    I'm sure you won't repeat this error again, I'm hardly expecting an acceptance of the thing, so I'm perfectly happy to leave it there.


  • #519
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    I'm sure you won't repeat this error again, I'm hardly expecting an acceptance of the thing, so I'm perfectly happy to leave it there.

    Sure - whatever works for you, and keeps the thread clean.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


  • #520
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    It does look like Drumm is some type of fall guy, but it has looked like this for a while, long before the tapes. Read back through the interviews he has done and the claims he has consistently made.
    That's not to suggest he is innocent of wrong doing, but if he is a liar, he is a convincing one, with a very neat story.

    I realise everyone will have a different interpretation, but one of the more surprising aspects of the tapes to me is the genuine conviction which Drumm seems to hold that the bank can be saved, and in particular his surprise at some of the decisions taken.
    As more of the tapes continue to be released, it's apparent to me that the overwhelming majority of the questions that need to be asked and answered, are to be directed at the former government and the various civil servants.

    I would have expected nothing less than public outrage at the braggadocio on the tapes, but the tapes have put in perspective how little we know about the government decisions, in contrast to how much we know about Anglo.
    The media (and sources) need to drive the story home i.e. to the foot of the political establishment and the civil service, not at the foot of the bankers.

    The longer the Anglo tapes leaks continue, the longer the banker agenda remains the epicentre of public scrutiny.
    It won't be long before the public start to become 'revalation-ed out', and at that stage it will be too late, the momentum will be lost.


  • #521
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    It does look like Drumm is some type of fall guy, but it has looked like this for a while, long before the tapes. Read back through the interviews he has done and the claims he has consistently made.
    That's not to suggest he is innocent of wrong doing, but if he is a liar, he is a convincing one, with a very neat story.

    I realise everyone will have a different interpretation, but one of the more surprising aspects of the tapes to me is the genuine conviction which Drumm seems to hold that the bank can be saved, and in particular his surprise at some of the decisions taken.
    As more of the tapes continue to be released, it's apparent to me that the overwhelming majority of the questions that need to be asked and answered, are to be directed at the former government and the various civil servants.

    I would have expected nothing less than public outrage at the braggadocio on the tapes, but the tapes have put in perspective how little we know about the government decisions, in contrast to how much we know about Anglo.
    The media (and sources) need to drive the story home i.e. to the foot of the political establishment and the civil service, not at the foot of the bankers.

    The longer the Anglo tapes leaks continue, the longer the banker agenda remains the epicentre of public scrutiny.
    It won't be long before the public start to become 'revalation-ed out', and at that stage it will be too late, the momentum will be lost.

    Well Drumm basically said at one point that they weren't treating the matter with the urgency it deserved because they'd still have jobs.

    I believe this to be the most accurate thing said on those tapes so far.

    Why should the senior civil servants care if the country is on the hook for billions when they have guaranteed job security.

    That is why they can laugh on the phone with them.


  • Advertisement
  • #522
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    but if he is a liar, he is a convincing one, with a very neat story.
    What do you mean a neat story? The only narrative that I can see coming out of David Drumm's fledgling media interactions (I say this because I think we all expect a book, eventually) is the theme: "There are others too".

    Sorry, but nobody ever doubted that there are others. Just raise the name Brian Cowen or Brian Lenihan or Patrick Neary over on AH and see what reaction you get. The fact of others sharing blame doesn't diminish the merit of any criticisms of Drumm in the tapes, as being reported.

    His other criticism is of the 'drip drip drip' reporting. Well it has to be done in serial form. There is too much data and releasing it all simultaneously would not be constructive and any newspaper doing so would fail in its role of assisting public debate and deliberation.


  • #523
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There are lots of possibilities. Could it be Gardai leaking some of the more incendiary sections of recordings to the media in order to inflame public opinion and create renewed pressure for action?
    LOL! I nearly fell off my chair at this bit!
    An Garda Siochana making more work for themselves and acting for the greater public good!?!? Which parallel universe?


  • #524
    GSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭GSF


    The reason Drumm features so prominently in the tapes released should be simple - he is the most senior executive not currently facing charges. So releasing tapes with him is least likely to prejudice any known pending trials. Its hardly an agenda against him. Its just how circumstances are.


  • #525
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    In a sense, we're always being told what someone wants us to hear. I think it's pretty obvious the Indo is telling a story with these tapes, and that the tapes they release are fairly carefully selected to tell that story. Again, I'm no fan of Drumm, but I think he's probably right that he's being fitted up here.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    The whole Anglogate Tape thing underlines even more actuely why WE,as in US,the interested parties formerly known as Citizens,need to know exactly who rocked up to Brian Lenihans house that fateful night,and exactly WHAT they told the man and in what order.

    I remain convinced that such records exist in some secluded spot,simply because these people are record keepers par excellence,if not for public,then for private reasons...but at this stage...Private IS Public...:mad:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #526
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,557 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    LOL! I nearly fell off my chair at this bit!
    An Garda Siochana making more work for themselves and acting for the greater public good!?!? Which parallel universe?

    That's a cynical and reductionist point of view. The Garda Siochana as an organisation may be poorly organised, overworked and under resourced, but I assure you it's ranks still have a lot of very capable, idealistic people who's vocation when they joined it was and still is to serve justice, and who are galled just as much as you or I am at the lack of social justice which has been evident in this banking crisis over the last four years.


  • #527
    creedp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭creedp


    thebman wrote: »
    Well Drumm basically said at one point that they weren't treating the matter with the urgency it deserved because they'd still have jobs.

    I believe this to be the most accurate thing said on those tapes so far.

    Why should the senior civil servants care if the country is on the hook for billions when they have guaranteed job security.

    That is why they can laugh on the phone with them.

    After quite a lot of vitriol posted re Anglo executives on this thread we are finally coming around to the appropriate view that the bankers were simply pawns and the real culprits are the senior PS who will laugh at/with the bankers and fiddle while Rome burns simply because they have a well paid permanent, pensionable job. Its all becoming clear now. I wouldn't hold my breath on those comprehensive files you yearn for .. politicans in particular and by default senior PS (whose purpose is to serve their political masters who after all appoint them) will be a lot more careful than Anglo in not creating incriminating files. Blame that on the FOI Act - once bitten twice shy!


  • #528
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,925 ✭ [Deleted User]


    creedp wrote: »
    After quite a lot of vitriol posted re Anglo executives on this thread we are finally coming around to the appropriate view that the bankers were simply pawns and the real culprits are the senior PS who will laugh at/with the bankers and fiddle while Rome burns simply because they have a well paid permanent, pensionable job. Its all becoming clear now. I wouldn't hold my breath on those comprehensive files you yearn for .. politicans in particular and by default senior PS (whose purpose is to serve their political masters who after all appoint them) will be a lot more careful than Anglo in not creating incriminating files. Blame that on the FOI Act - once bitten twice shy!

    I think this post is a great example of why we have yet to turn a single degree, much less a whole corner: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85318672&postcount=3


  • #529
    creedp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭creedp


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I think this post is a great example of why we have yet to turn a single degree, much less a whole corner: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85318672&postcount=3

    Presumably this post is trying to say something meaningful and hopefully it will dawn on me in the morning.


  • #530
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,925 ✭ [Deleted User]


    creedp wrote: »
    Presumably this post is trying to say something meaningful and hopefully it will dawn on me in the morning.

    I was simply adding some anecdotal evidence to your own points. Think along these lines: 2012 > public representative > banks > favours


  • #531
    creedp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,287 ✭✭✭creedp


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I was simply adding some anecdotal evidence to your own points. Think along these lines: 2012 > public representative > banks > favours

    There's a long and fruitful relationship in this country between politicians and banks .. think of the likes of the great Garret and Charlie. There is no reason to assume that such a relationship was any different in 2008 and has changed since then. This relationship has been ably abetted by senior PS and regulators who after all must serve their political masters no matter what the outcome. Its high time the citizenry of this country sought to make the process of recruiting/appointing such people independent of the political establishment.


  • Advertisement
  • #532
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,925 ✭ [Deleted User]


    creedp wrote: »
    There's a long and fruitful relationship in this country between politicians and banks .. think of the likes of the great Garret and Charlie. There is no reason to assume that such a relationship was any different in 2008 and has changed since then. This relationship has been ably abetted by senior PS and regulators who after all must serve their political masters no matter what the outcome. Its high time the citizenry of this country sought to make the process of recruiting/appointing such people independent of the political establishment.

    You would almost think that a politician would be afraid to death of being in any way associated with dodgy bank dealings in 2012. I guess not...


  • #533
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    There is absolutely no reason for a politician to be afraid of practically any dealings in this Country - because, based on past history, they have little or no reason to be. Ditto for senior civil servants, or high profile bankers/developers.

    Unless there is a concerted effort by the public, I very much suspect that the same will be true for any wrongdoers in the banking crises.

    We'll get one or two token convictions - and the rest will melt quietly away.

    As much as I hope I'm wrong in this, I have a strong suspicion that we'll be fed another toothless enquiry - one where witnesses are apparently free to tell lies without repercussion (a la certain cases currently before the courts!), or we wont get all of the information - because nobody conducting the enquiry will ask for all the information, because they don't know it exists - and it will, of course, have been turned over to the Garda Síochana!

    But, we've all got implicit faith in our "Dear Leaders" - because investigations to date inspire so much confidence - or not, imo!


  • #534
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    What do you mean a neat story?

    I mean:
    a) he does not appear to be changing his story, as a liar typically does - read back through his various interviews on IrishCentral or the various Irish media. He has been quite consistent.

    b) he has been quite forthcoming with information, unlike the former Taoiseach and civil service, who seem to be incapable of recalling the actual truth and/or terrified of incriminating themselves.

    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    The only narrative that I can see coming out of David Drumm's fledgling media interactions (I say this because I think we all expect a book, eventually) is the theme: "There are others too".

    That's a bit understated though, his actual quote is:
    He said: “I am being made a scapegoat by politicians and politically connected former bankers and politically protected senior pubic servants.

    “These people do not want to see their role in the crisis highlighted. A campaign of misinformation about the bank guarantee has been going on for several years and it has to stop if the public are to finally understand what happened.”

    Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/David-Drumm-says-he-will-not-be-made-a-scapegoat-for-the-Irish-banking-crisis-214519121.html#ixzz2YdDDtHkA
    ^
    I don't think it can get any clearer than that.

    Sorry, but nobody ever doubted that there are others. Just raise the name Brian Cowen or Brian Lenihan or Patrick Neary over on AH and see what reaction you get. The fact of others sharing blame doesn't diminish the merit of any criticisms of Drumm in the tapes, as being reported.

    I know, thats why I wrote: "That's not to suggest he is innocent of wrong doing, ..."
    His other criticism is of the 'drip drip drip' reporting. Well it has to be done in serial form. There is too much data and releasing it all simultaneously would not be constructive and any newspaper doing so would fail in its role of assisting public debate and deliberation.

    Up to a point - yes. And obviously the media wouldn't be doing themselves any favours.
    But the headline yesterday was about some knacker from Love/Hate harassing some nobody from nowhere.

    The momentum is starting to diminish already.
    The fact is that David Drumm is correct. The public limelight has been taken off the other participants.


  • #535
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    creedp wrote: »
    the appropriate view that the bankers were simply pawns and the real culprits are the senior PS

    John bowe: “So, so…[the €7 billion] is bridged until we can pay you back..which is never. [Loud laughter]”

    John Bowe: "That number is seven but the reality is we need more than that. But you know, the strategy here is you pull them [the Central Bank] in, you get them to write a big cheque and they have to keep, they have to support their money, you know."
    Peter Fitzgerald: "...They’ve got skin in the game and that’s the key"
    John Bowe: "...If they saw the enormity of it up front, they might decide they have a choice. You know what I mean? They might say the cost to the taxpayer is too high…if it doesn’t look too big at the outset…if it doesn’t look big, big enough to be important, but not too big that it kind of spoils everything, then, then I think you can have a chance. So I think it can creep up"

    Also on the tapes

    - Donal O'Connor, the chairman of Anglo (as he was then) is portrayed as being of a negative disposition towards the IL&P warehousing deal, he is worried about the Government's reaction, the thinks the Government are going to 'throw their hands up' if they find out.
    -The Regulator asked Fiachra O'Neill, head of compliance at Anglo (as he was then) for his legal opinion on whether there was market abuse in their transactions. John Bowe says he is "nervous" about an upcoming due diligence procedure, and what to say to the Regulator about the IL&P deal.

    And on due diligence, here's Drumm indicating what he wants to "get through to" the Minister for Finance"

    Drumm: Really what I want to know is what's this about process and due diligence and all this. You're putting the Government guarantee at risk with your delays [Bowe: Yeah] ...and your lack of action. And what's this about having to go through due diligence? You made that decision on the 29th of September... Now can you protect your hundred billion guarantee of usby writing a two or three billion cheque and get on with it... So my goal tomorrow is to get that through to him. 'Do you understand?'
    ... When you've guaranteed someone's entire liabilities, it's smart to write a very small cheque to stop them being called. [Bowe: Yeah... Yeah] Which bit of that don't you get? [Bowe: Yeah]. I don't think he gets it
    Bowe: Well the problem is he's trying to be 'mean' in the way he's, let's say, 'dispensing Government largesse'.

    Elsewhere

    Bowe: We never had a day like today where one and a half million went out
    Drumm: Now, when you say buffer, you're talking about the liquidity ratios are you? [Bowe: I am, yeah] ...Yeah, I don't care about them. I just care about the fcuking cash... The regulatory minimums are not in themselves a disaster for the bank unless somebody finds out about them.
    Bowe: ...Now you are having to tell the Regulator what lending you are doing... you are going to have the regulator sitting in your corner office.
    Drumm: Yeah I get that. Don't run ahead of yourself yet...
    ...We've been doing a lot of work. We've been working on it today. About maybe having the conversation with our buddies down on Dame Street about fallback, you know, if we do breach this. First of all, I don't want any fcuking bolloxology from them.

    In the later conversation, Drumm refers to a "shower of clowns" down on Dame Street, as his bank struggles to maintain cash reserves. In fact, the whole tenor of the recordings, taken as a whole, is of an executive branch of the bank which is completely frustrated with the slow pace of state intervention.

    We know of incompetence at Cabinet and at the level of the Central Bank through other channels. But what you are suggesting here, i.e. that the executives at Anglo were mere 'pawns' is absolutely not borne out in the footage.


  • #536
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    I mean:
    a) he does not appear to be changing his story, as a liar typically does - read back through his various interviews on IrishCentral or the various Irish media. He has been quite consistent.
    No, the neat story bit. What is the 'neat story'? Simply being consistent in saying "I'm not the only one" is meaningless, and it is on this meaningless nothingness that you seem to rely, establishing precisely nothing.


  • #537
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    I’ve very little sympathy for anyone who runs away when the going gets tough, particularly when they cast aspersions at others involved, to divert attention from themselves.
    Other peoples’ roles in the Anglo affair are separate issues and, if called upon to answer questions on the matter, their response or otherwise can then be dealt with.
    Right now, David Drumm is ignoring official requests for him to return home to answer questions about his part in the affair.
    Let’s face it, David Drumm took all the rewards associated with running Anglo, while they appeared to be making profits (at least in the short run).
    The tapes reveal some of his thinking when things started to unravel and just how far he and his associates were prepared to go to save themselves – no matter at what cost to the Irish Taxpayer.
    Now he has run away to the USA, trying to save as much as possible of the gains he made in the good times at Anglo.
    So he is in no position to portray himself as victim – he should man up and return to face the consequences of his actions as CEO of a major bank that failed so catastrophically.


  • #538
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Cody Pomeray wrote:
    We know of incompetence at Cabinet and at the level of the Central Bank through other channels. But what you are suggesting here, i.e. that the executives at Anglo were mere 'pawns' is absolutely not borne out in the footage.

    Oh well, here we go again. The footage doesn't so far suggest anything whatsoever about Anglo's role in the guarantee. Thus far the footage suggests on the one hand that Anglo were looking for a loan to tide them over, and were prepared to reveal less than the full truth to get that loan - that's the pre-guarantee footage.The post-guarantee footage paints a picture of Anglo being happy to take advantage of the guarantee in ways that were embarrassing for Ireland.

    With respect to Anglo's role in the guarantee decision, the tapes show absolutely nothing at all so far. Yet the tapes are being portrayed as being about Anglo's role in the guarantee decision.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #539
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    The footage doesn't so far suggest anything whatsoever about Anglo's role in the guarantee.
    Who mentioned the Guarantee?

    What are you on about?

    astounded,
    Cody Pomeray


  • #540
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    No, the neat story bit. What is the 'neat story'? Simply being consistent in saying "I'm not the only one" is meaningless, and it is on this meaningless nothingness that you seem to rely, establishing precisely nothing.

    Eh...to continue this would be just arguing for the sake of arguing...

    Maybe a few years ago I would have taken the bait Cody, these days I couldn't be arsed tbh.

    nonchalantly,
    dannyboy


  • Advertisement
  • #541
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Eh...to continue this would be just arguing for the sake of arguing...
    You said he had a neat story.

    A neat story is not the equivalent to consistency. Consistency is merely an ongoing application of the substance of the narrative. What is the substance, i.e. what is 'neat' about what Drumm says?

    Is it that he wasn't the only bad guy? Nobody doubts that.

    perplexed,
    cody pomeray


Advertisement