Anglo Tapes

maninasia

The regulator needs to be looked at aswell. Something seriously wrong there. The dail should enact a bill to strip this guy of all his benefits at the minimum. What was he getting paid for?

renegademaster

rage against the regime applying for all tapes and files under freedom of information requests relating all the banks covered under the bailout

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUVstdjvscs

foxcoverteddy

Yes the regulator needs to be dealt with and equally the auditors, who should not only be included in any charges but also banned from practising in this country.
The other group with responsibility would be the internal audit of the bank, these people are walking free, why.

Prof. Armitage Shanks

maninasia wrote: »

The regulator needs to be looked at aswell. Something seriously wrong there. The dail should enact a bill to strip this guy of all his benefits at the minimum. What was he getting paid for?

The regulator had an incredibly lax approach to regulation and was clearly a yes man. However did it occur to you that perhaps he had the job because of these very traits?

It is evident from certain golf club meetings etc that top bankers of the time were quite close to the FF government and probably held a lot of influence. If at the time Neary had of adopted an Elderfield approach to banking regulation how long would he have lasted in his political appointed position?

Zubeneschamali

maninasia wrote: »

What was he getting paid for?

Looking the other way.

Scofflaw

maninasia wrote: »

The timeframe is extremely important. You can't have lads running around who were possibly involved in billions of Euro fraud for 5-10 years. The lack of urgency for criminal prosecution is galling. Why does it take so long? Why not allocate more resources and speed it up?

It's been 4 years, and the investigation was offered more manpower, but said it would slow things down rather than speed them up.

maninasia wrote: »

What's the expected timeline?

The Garda investigation was described as close to finished.

maninasia wrote: »

Why do they have their passports, can they not be placed under restrictions during the investigations? They were running banks that imploded with 50 billion+ in debts.

Because people are innocent until proven guilty, and free until charged.

maninasia wrote: »

The sheer amount of money involved and the massive impact these activities have resulted in DEMAND an investigation that is very different than your local pub fiddling the tills.

Which is what's happening, but investigation takes longer because it's very different from your local pub fiddling the tills.

maninasia wrote: »

It's all got the familiar tribunal ring to it, and the governments best response is, 'lets open an oireachtas inquiry'.

FFS.

Actually, in this case that means "we reckon there's great dirt here on the opposition" rather than "let's bury it". Tribunals of inquiry aren't Oireachtas inquiries.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Looking the other way.

Pretty much. "Light touch regulation" and all that. I doubt the IFSC Clearing House Group wanted a forceful and intrusive Regulator.

cordially,
Scofflaw

GSF

Prof. Armitage Shanks wrote: »

If at the time Neary had of adopted an Elderfield approach to banking regulation how long would he have lasted in his political appointed position?

Its Ireland. No one risks their pension to make a stand on principle.

listermint

Is they are banding around statute of limitations 6 year period to bring a case about. Is this something we should be concerned about ?

We dont know yet if there is/isnt an ongoing investigation. No one is really saying anything at all.

Scofflaw

listermint wrote: »

Is they are banding around statute of limitations 6 year period to bring a case about. Is this something we should be concerned about ?

We dont know yet if there is/isnt an ongoing investigation. No one is really saying anything at all.

1. that's in 2 years time.

2. does it even apply to fraud?

3. yes, there's an ongoing investigation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

john.han

Scofflaw wrote: »

1. that's in 2 years time.

2. does it even apply to fraud?

3. yes, there's an ongoing investigation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

No, there is no limit for indictable offences. The six year limit is for contracts.

listermint

Scofflaw wrote: »

1. that's in 2 years time.

2. does it even apply to fraud?

3. yes, there's an ongoing investigation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Have we heard this through official channels such as for instance the Garda Commisioner or is it just sound bites in the media from politicians ?

golfwallah

john.han wrote: »

No, there is no limit for indictable offences. The six year limit is for contracts.

Good to hear that, john.han - presumably you mean an indictable offence, such as fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud?

If so, do you think this could be dealt with by the Special Criminal Court under the Offences against the State Act/s or would a jury trial be more appropriate?

Best,
Golfwallah

john.han

golfwallah wrote: »

Good to hear that, john.han - presumably you mean an indictable offence, such as fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud?

If so, do you think this could be dealt with by the Special Criminal Court under the Offences against the State Act/s or would a jury trial be more appropriate?

Best,
Golfwallah

No way of using the Special Criminal Court, the potential offences wouldn't fall under the remit of the court, they pretty much relate to offences which endanger the security of the state (terrorism/organised crime).

golfwallah

Glad to hear that Patrick Honohan has said in German interview that the Anglo Tapes provide new information to help bring those senior people in Anglo, who misled the Central Bank, to justice:
http://www.thejournal.ie/patrick-honohan-gives-unexpectedly-frank-answers-about-bank-crisis-974706-Jul2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

Let's hope we see more steps being taken in this direction sooner rather than later.

Mr.Micro

golfwallah wrote: »

Glad to hear that Patrick Honohan has said in German interview that the Anglo Tapes provide new information to help bring those senior people in Anglo, who misled the Central Bank, to justice:
http://www.thejournal.ie/patrick-honohan-gives-unexpectedly-frank-answers-about-bank-crisis-974706-Jul2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

Let's hope we see more steps being taken in this direction sooner rather than later.

Why though as the regulator is the Central Bank only hearing those tapes now?

Scofflaw

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Why though as the regulator is the Central Bank only hearing those tapes now?

Because they were in the hands of the Gardai as evidence. There seems to be an idea that if one part of the State has heard these tapes, every part of the State should have heard them, and that is not the case.

When the Gardai seize something as evidence it is not supposed to be available to anyone else. In the hands of the media or politicians it can prejudice investigations and/or trials, in the hands of anyone it might be used to assist the guilty in escaping justice.

The Central Bank was not the Regulator at the time, and even the Regulator at the time would not have had access to the Bank's internal recordings.

cordially,
Scofflaw

john.han

Scofflaw wrote: »

Because they were in the hands of the Gardai as evidence. There seems to be an idea that if one part of the State has heard these tapes, every part of the State should have heard them, and that is not the case.

When the Gardai seize something as evidence it is not supposed to be available to anyone else. In the hands of the media or politicians it can prejudice investigations and/or trials, in the hands of anyone it might be used to assist the guilty in escaping justice.

The Central Bank was not the Regulator at the time, and even the Regulator at the time would not have had access to the Bank's internal recordings.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Didn't Noonan say today the tapes were uncovered by discovery in a civil case?

Mr.Micro

Scofflaw wrote: »

Because they were in the hands of the Gardai as evidence. There seems to be an idea that if one part of the State has heard these tapes, every part of the State should have heard them, and that is not the case.

When the Gardai seize something as evidence it is not supposed to be available to anyone else. In the hands of the media or politicians it can prejudice investigations and/or trials, in the hands of anyone it might be used to assist the guilty in escaping justice.

The Central Bank was not the Regulator at the time, and even the Regulator at the time would not have had access to the Bank's internal recordings.

cordially,
Scofflaw

From posts on this thread we were informed that 3 parties had tapes? So did the Gardai exclusively have them? What I find confusing is that the tapes have been released and presumably the Gardai have not found anything in them to use as evidence, otherwise they would not have been released? The Central Bank is now looking/listening at them, so if any prosecutions can arise it is via the Gardai, who have released them. Confused

Noreen1

We know the Gardai had access to the tapes.
We also know that Sean Quinn got a discovery order allowing him access to tapes - whether these particular tapes, or not, I don't know.

It was reported in one of the papers this week that the Quinn family intend using these tapes in their forthcoming case.

I don't know who the third party is.

If the Quinn family intend using these tapes, they would be unlikely to release them, imo. I also suspect that, if they were planning to release these tapes to the media, the Independent would be an unlikely choice.
Some of their coverage has been less than flattering to the Quinns.

Beyond that - the reporter refuses to name his source.

Scofflaw

Mr.Micro wrote: »

From posts on this thread we were informed that 3 parties had tapes? So did the Gardai exclusively have them? What I find confusing is that the tapes have been released and presumably the Gardai have not found anything in them to use as evidence, otherwise they would not have been released? The Central Bank is now looking/listening at them, so if any prosecutions can arise it is via the Gardai, who have released them. Confused

The Gardai haven't formally released the tapes, and haven't, as far as I know, commented on their value as evidence - the release was via a leak to the Independent, and the DPP has requested the Independent not to release some tapes for fear of prejudicing criminal trials.

The Central Bank thinks they might have grounds for a criminal prosecution in respect of Anglo misrepresenting their position - I'm not sure what basis that would be prosecuted on, but presumably there is such a basis if the CBI thinks there is.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dannyboy83

The leak has been a great success in terms of brining it back in the public consciousness and lighting a fire under political asses, and unlike poor Savita Halappanavar, nobody had to die.

Scofflaw

john.han wrote: »

Didn't Noonan say today the tapes were uncovered by discovery in a civil case?

Actually, I think he said that there were copies of the tapes that had been obtained as part of discovery in a civil case (presumably Quinn), amongst others, but that doesn't make any judgement on which source passed them to the Indo.

cordially,
Scofflaw

john.han

Sean farrelly wrote: »

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Want_an_Independent_European_body_of_inquiry_to_investigate_Banking_scandal_in_Ireland_1/?copy

Please sign my petition and promote to your friends by emailing it to all your contacts if you agree.


20000+ signatures in 5 days

I'd rather a trial first, then we can waste money on an inquiry.

donegal_road

john.han wrote: »

I'd rather a trial first, then we can waste money on an inquiry.

Derbhail McDonald made a good point on Vincent Browne last night when she said she didn't think there would be enough time for an inquiry during the lifetime of the present government.

Noreen1

It is a good point.
But didn't Howlin say he was going to streamline the process?

Now, I'm no fan of FF - far from it! - but since an Oireachtas enquiry can only make findings against Politicians, I can't help thinking this is a perfect opportunity for political point-scoring, while being totally useless as a means of giving the public the information they're entitled to, imo.

Sand

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The leak has been a great success in terms of brining it back in the public consciousness and lighting a fire under political asses, and unlike poor Savita Halappanavar, nobody had to die.

Very true. We had a great many wise men telling us that there was nothing to learn from a banking inquiry and that we needed to move on and get over it, that there is no criminal activity and no lessons to be drawn that aren't already known. Those voices are somewhat quieter...for now. They'll return in a couple of weeks/months. It is in their interests after-all, so they have vastly more staying power than your average citizen.

Who released the tapes, and their motives, are up for misdirection, but they have done the people (not the state) a great service by reminding us that 5 years ago we were stitched up and that even today we still don't know exactly who, where, when, how or why of it. What adds insult to injury is that we were stitched up by a group of morons who were dumb enough to tape their own planning to stitch us up with their screwups. Though why wouldn't they? Apparently planning to stitch up the taxpayer is entirely legal in Ireland.

Sand

golfwallah wrote: »

Glad to hear that Patrick Honohan has said in German interview that the Anglo Tapes provide new information to help bring those senior people in Anglo, who misled the Central Bank, to justice:
http://www.thejournal.ie/patrick-honohan-gives-unexpectedly-frank-answers-about-bank-crisis-974706-Jul2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

Let's hope we see more steps being taken in this direction sooner rather than later.

I think we'll find that with the appropriate amount of German media and political pressure it'll be "discovered" that despite earlier judgements, there might be something incriminating on the Anglo-Irish tapes. Taking the piss out of the Germans might not be illegal in itself under Irish law, but its certainly ignorant, rude and ill-advised.

Dannyboy83

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The leak has been a great success in terms of brining it back in the public consciousness and lighting a fire under political asses, and unlike poor Savita Halappanavar, nobody had to die.

Many people have died as a result of what went on at Anglo and the wider financial catastrophe which it helped bring about, just not with as much fanfare in the media. Suicide and deaths through poverty, stress etc have occurred as a direct result of what was done, not to mention emigration on a mass scale tearing families apart and creating dangerous levels of depression.

I seem to remember a high profile case of a (low level) Anglo worker committing suicide a few years back, at the height of the revelations about constant bank bailouts. That was directly attributed to the stress as a result of public hatred which was being directed at Anglo and its employees at the time, many of whom had no hand act or part in the decisions which were made by senior management.

Sand wrote: »

Very true. We had a great many wise men telling us that there was nothing to learn from a banking inquiry and that we needed to move on and get over it, that there is no criminal activity and no lessons to be drawn that aren't already known...

Nothing to see here, move along folks...

Dannyboy83

Deleted User wrote: »

Many people have died as a result of what went on at Anglo and the wider financial catastrophe which it helped bring about, just not with as much fanfare in the media. Suicide and deaths through poverty, stress etc have occurred as a direct result of what was done, not to mention emigration on a mass scale tearing families apart and creating dangerous levels of depression.

Wouldn't dispute it for a second.

100 things Ireland could have got for the price of one Anglo Irish Bank…