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Wheres our Independence Day ??

13

Comments

  • #62
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    Honestly? I am so very bored with having had to listen to so much about Northern Ireland that I actually just zone out when I hear anyone talking about it. That and the God awful northern accent.


    Yes honestly. Do you or don't you see any difference?

    You are suggesting that most Americans don't really care about their Independance just because their Independance Day is taken as a family day out rather than as some kind of national debate on the rights and wrongs of their revolution.

    As for the North, zone out all you want, why are you telling me about your supposed apathy?


  • #63
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Christ the Redeemer wrote: »
    How come I never hear the term "west brit" used in my day to day life but see it often on this site?
    Because the people who say it on this site don't have the balls to use it in rl. Most people are able to speak their mind easier under the comfort of anonymity.


  • #64
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Christ the Redeemer wrote: »
    How come I never hear the term "west brit" used in my day to day life but see it often on this site?


    Dunno but it strikes me that the term is used far more often by people giving out about its use than the term is ever actually used.


  • #65
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I know what I am.
    And we all know what you are.
    Yes, I'm someone who puts the needs of his own country above another. I won't risk the political and economic stability of my country by taking on yours.


  • #66
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes, I'm someone who puts the needs of his own country above another. I won't risk the political and economic stability of my country by taking on yours.


    Interesting, I would rather not risk the political and economic stability of this Island by the blind maintenance of a divisive, economically unsound and deeply flawed partition.


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  • #67
    darragh16
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭darragh16


    At present Ireland isn't totally independent, in my opinion. Although some of the dates suggested a good ideas, I can't see a viable independence day because what one person might accept as independence doesn't represent another.

    However, St. Patrick's day is easier to celebrate because rather than celebrate the end of the independence struggle it's a representation of Ireland and the Irish nation which is dispersed across the world.


  • #68
    NTMK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭NTMK


    An Coilean wrote: »
    Interesting, I would rather not risk the political and economic stability of this Island by the blind maintenance of a divisive, economically unsound and deeply flawed partition.

    How is it economically unsound, out of sheer curiousity?


  • #69
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    We had our celebration, it was called the celtic tiger, it lasted about 10 years.

    Like other have pointed out Ireland's independence took place over time, when we became the free state we eventually became a republic in everything but name. Then we changed the name. Which date do you pick?


  • #70
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Because the people who say it on this site don't have the balls to use it in rl. Most people are able to speak their mind easier under the comfort of anonymity.

    As with much else, you'd be wrong there.


  • #71
    Dostoevsky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A Free State day would be worth it just to hear the 'RA heads howl. :D

    Indeed. How mature. You could celebrate it by rounding up, say, 10 Irish revolutionaries, dumping them in a truck going out to a wood, tying them to a land mine moving back and blowing them to death. Just in case, you could then take out your guns and murder any survivors.

    Ah the British armed and supported counter-revolutionary "Free State" fighting Britain's colonial war against the remaining Irish revolutionaries. What a glorious thing to honour. Stay classy.


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  • #72
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    An Coilean wrote: »
    Interesting, I would rather not risk the political and economic stability of this Island by the blind maintenance of a divisive, economically unsound and deeply flawed partition.

    Given the support the revocation of our territorial claim to Northern Ireland received, 94.39% of your own population appear to take a somewhat different view.


  • #73
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    NTMK wrote: »
    How is it economically unsound, out of sheer curiousity?


    Can you show me any economic argument as to why it makes sense to have two disjointed public services, two curriencies and two different tax systems on this island?


  • #74
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes, I'm someone who puts the needs of his own country above another. I won't risk the political and economic stability of my country by taking on yours.


    I don't think that's what he's getting at.


  • #75
    Dostoevsky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    Given the support the revocation of our territorial claim to Northern Ireland received, 94.39% of your own population appear to take a somewhat different view.

    Given your unwillingness to contextualise that support - namely, Sinn Féin and the SDLP proposed dropping Articles 2&3 as part of an overall quid pro quo which included all-Ireland bodies, the principal source of unionist dread - this point looks very different.


  • #76
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Nodin wrote: »
    I don't think that's what he's getting at.

    Of course not but there really is no point in engaging with this clown. Every thread he goes onto is to push this "my country, your country" crap. Best to just leave him to it, he'll tire himself out eventually.


  • #77
    NTMK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭NTMK


    An Coilean wrote: »
    Can you show me any economic argument as to why it makes sense to have two disjointed public services, two curriencies and two different tax systems on this island?

    so you dont have an answer then?


  • #78
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    An Coilean wrote: »
    Interesting, I would rather not risk the political and economic stability of this Island by the blind maintenance of a divisive, economically unsound and deeply flawed partition.
    There's nothing politically or economically unsound about the status que.
    Nodin wrote: »
    As with much else, you'd be wrong there.
    Ya know if you want a discussion you have to actually elaborate rather then saying "you're wrong".
    Dostoevsky wrote: »
    Indeed. How mature. You could celebrate it by rounding up, say, 10 Irish revolutionaries, dumping them in a truck going out to a wood, tying them to a land mine moving back and blowing them to death. Just in case, you could then take out your guns and murder any survivors.

    Ah the British armed and supported counter-revolutionary "Free State" fighting Britain's colonial war against the remaining Irish revolutionaries. What a glorious thing to honour. Stay classy.
    Jeez take a joke, are you always on?


  • #79
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    NTMK wrote: »
    so you dont have an answer then?

    They blatantly do. They just showed it to you.


  • #80
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Of course not but there really is no point in engaging with this clown. Every thread he goes onto is to push this "my country, your country" crap. Best to just leave him to it, he'll tire himself out eventually.
    And yet no one from your "side" has ever compiled a compelling argument for why Northern Ireland and Ireland are not separate nations.


  • #81
    NTMK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭NTMK


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    They blatantly do. They just showed it to you.

    that argument could be made for merging the whole of the EU into one country

    right now it would be effectively taping 2 anchors together and hoping they float

    and thats before you include the economic damage that will occur by having the unionists kick off

    it makes no sense to risk political stability


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  • #82
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There's nothing politically or economically unsound about the status que.


    Ya know if you want a discussion you have to actually elaborate rather then saying "you're wrong".

    Not always. I'd have no hesitation in calling somebody who I believed deserved the title a "west brit".


  • #83
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    NTMK wrote: »
    it makes no sense to risk political stability
    It's very hard to engage logically with hardcore nationalists. They're blinkered because they see and can understand only their own views. No alternative to unification is possible in their eyes. What's more they're selfish because they are willing to risk the political and economical stability of the whole island in pursuit of their blinkered beliefs. Self assured contrarians who have fallen for the demagogues of the nationalist movement.


  • #84
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not always. I'd have no hesitation in calling somebody who I believed deserved the title a "west brit".
    In real life I assume you would, the vast majority of people are more comfortable speaking their mind under the vale of secrecy internet anonymity gives them.


  • #85
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    It's very hard to engage logically with hardcore nationalists. They're blinkered because they see and can understand only their own views. No alternative to unification is possible in their eyes. What's more they're selfish because they are willing to risk the political and economical stability of the whole island in pursuit of their blinkered beliefs. Self assured contrarians who have fallen for the demagogues of the nationalist movement.


    .....is it nice, up there on your soap box?


  • #86
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    An Coilean wrote: »
    Can you show me any economic argument as to why it makes sense to have two disjointed public services, two curriencies and two different tax systems on this island?
    Having access to the British tax base has obvious advantages in Northern Ireland.


  • #87
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    NTMK wrote: »
    that argument could be made for merging the whole of the EU into one country

    right now it would be effectively taping 2 anchors together and hoping they float

    and thats before you include the economic damaged that will occur by having the unionists kick off

    it makes no sense to risk political stability

    I dont know if people opposed to reunification do this deliberately to give a false impression of reunification or they are just genuinely ignorant, but once again you have given you have totally misrepresented what is meant by the term.
    Nobody is suggesting you wake up tomorrow and the border is gone. It would be a process, carried out with the consent of the majority and involve change to the entire nation, not the sticking together of two different states.
    As for unionists kicking off, like I said, it will be done with the consent of the majority so any unionists that do "kick off" will be a minority of a minority.
    Do you base all your political decisions on the fear of wether or not a small group opposed to the will of the majority will "kick off?"
    Your EU analogy is idiotic but I suspect you know that and your just playing devil's advocate. Of course, reuniting Ireland, an island nation with the same cultural background (broadly speaking of course, as much as any modern nation can have the same cultural background) and a desire for reunification held by the majority of the people, is patently nothing like attempting to coerce dozens of distinct nations into one massive state.


  • #88
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    NTMK wrote: »
    that argument could be made for merging the whole of the EU into one country


    Perhaps it could, All EU member states merged into one country would certainly create a much larger and more efficient European Economy than the patckwork that exists now.
    If an attempt were made to create such a European Nation, it would be national interests trying to protect its own power at the expense of the whole and national identities feeling alienated from the new superstate that would prove the biggest stumbeling blocks, it would most likely do quite well economically, remember the Euro Crisis is in part the result of not having enough economic integration across Europe.

    However museings on a potential European State are not really an argument as to why it makes sense to have two disjointed public services, two curriencies and two tax systems on this island, is it?


  • #89
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Having access to the British tax base has obvious advantages in Northern Ireland.

    Not really because it has bred a culture dependent on hand outs and given no incentive to stimulate the local economy. People in the north also have no real control over their own fiscal matters, what with Westminster pulling the purse strings.
    The north(much like the south) needs massive economic change and that isnt going to happen while people can count on Britain to keep shelling out the cash.


  • #90
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Having access to the British tax base has obvious advantages in Northern Ireland.


    Thats true, but there are equally obvious disadvantages to the Islands economy resulting from partition.

    Being on life support from the British exchequer is doing NI no favours in the long run nor is that life support likely to continue indefinatly.


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  • #91
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Dostoevsky wrote: »
    Given your unwillingness to contextualise that support - namely, Sinn Féin and the SDLP proposed dropping Articles 2&3 as part of an overall quid pro quo which included all-Ireland bodies, the principal source of unionist dread - this point looks very different.

    Doesn't matter who proposed or indeed demanded it tbh - If partition to date had broadly been regarded as a calamity, the poll numbers for the Nineteenth Amendment would have reflected those concerns.


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