Wheres our Independence Day ??

KTRIC

Given today is the Day in 1776 that the good auld US of A declared independence from the Brits I thought I'd bring up this old chestnut again !! :rolleyes:

Two points, why is our independence from Britain such a taboo subject and how come we don't celebrate it ??

Oregano_State

Ours was more of a process of independence, it didn't happen in one day.

holystungun9

Ahh, this is going to be the perfect start to my groundhog day. Thank you OP!

.jacksparrow.

KTRIC wrote: »

Given today is the Day in 1776 that the good auld US of A declared independence from the Brits I thought I'd bring up this old chestnut again !! :rolleyes:

Two points, why is our independence from Britain such a taboo subject and how come we don't celebrate it ??

We seemed to be ashamed of our patriots, pathetic isn't it.

kneemos

One Paddy's day is enough.

bumper234

Is Ireland (as a nation) totally independent of the "Brits"?

Mountjoy Mugger

Yep.

Balmed Out

We celebrate a failed rising way more then the semi successful war of independence.

I suppose the reason may be people didn't want to be bringing up its divisive conclusion and aftermath of a civil war on an annual basis but maybe its long enough in the past that we can change that now?

WIZE

Because the Republic of Ireland in not an independent state as it is run from Brussels.

Oregano_State

bumper234 wrote: »

Is Ireland (as a nation) totally independent of the "Brits"?

It depends what you mean. Economically, no nation is independent.

NinjaK

Because we are run by weak west brits who dont want to offend the Unionists even though they despise us..

bumper234

Oregano_State wrote: »

It depends what you mean. Economically, no nation is independent.

As an island

kneemos

It would be a bit antagonistic at this stage in fairness.

Dravokivich

bumper234 wrote: »

As an island

Funny, the Scottish don't think they need the whole island.

mattjack

NinjaK wrote: »

Because we are run by weak west brits who dont want to offend the Unionists even though they despise us..

" Drops monocle ".

spank_inferno

NinjaK wrote: »

Because we are run by weak west brits who dont want to offend the Unionists even though they despise us..

What is this bullsh*t supposed to mean?

bumper234

Dravokivich wrote: »

Funny, the Scottish don't think they need the whole island.

But Scotland is not an Island nation

SEPT 23 1989

We had it and then we lost it

banbatoyota

19th Jan - First Dáil met and War of Independence began

4th July - Truce with British Army signed

11th July - Truce with British Army came into effect

6th Dec - Anglo-Irish Treaty signed


Take your pick

But the taboo about celebrating let alone commemorating any of these is indeed nauseating.

Heaven forbid we Irish celebrate our own heroes

Dravokivich

bumper234 wrote: »

But Scotland is not an Island nation

They could of been if they supported Mel Gibson when he wanted to invade England.

hfallada

Even when we got our independence we were part of the common wealth until 1937 so we werent that independent.

bumper234

Dravokivich wrote: »

They could of been if they supported Mel Gibson when he wanted to invade England.

What?

Was he going to chop Scotland off from mainland Britain and let it float out to sea?

gobnaitolunacy

Why do we have to ape flagwaving Yanks or 'flegwaving' Unionists to prove something?

Our nationmaking process was a lot more recent than that of the US and some painful issues still haven't gone away.

WindSock

What would the Irish in Norn Irn celebrate, if the national day was for independence? Paddy's Day is just much less hassle for everyone.

Paz-CCFC

Oregano_State wrote: »

Ours was more of a process of independence, it didn't happen in one day.

You could say the same about the American's Independence Day. Their War of Independence continued long after the Declaration of Independence was made. I suppose our version of the declaration would be the 1916 Proclamation of the Republic.

banbatoyota wrote: »

19th Jan - First Dáil met and War of Independence began

4th July - Truce with British Army signed

11th July - Truce with British Army came into effect

6th Dec - Anglo-Irish Treaty signed

You could add in the 1st of July or 29th of December (1937) when Bunreacht na hÉireann was accepted by the people and then brought into force.

banbatoyota

.

banbatoyota

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

You could say the same about the American's Independence Day. Their War of Independence continued long after the Declaration of Independence was made. I suppose our version of the declaration would be the 1916 Proclamation of the Republic.



You could add in the 1st of July or 29th of December (1937) when Bunreacht na hÉireann was accepted by the people and then brought into force.

Also the 18th April (1949) when the Republic of Ireland Act came into force.

Alternatively the 21st December (1948) when it was signed into law.

Caliden

banbatoyota wrote: »

19th Jan - First Dáil met and War of Independence began

4th July - Truce with British Army signed

11th July - Truce with British Army came into effect

6th Dec - Anglo-Irish Treaty signed


Take your pick

But the taboo about celebrating let alone commemorating any of these is indeed nauseating.

Heaven forbid we Irish celebrate our own heroes

Wasn't that the whole point that a Sinn Féin TD tried to make a few months ago but was ridiculed.
He never said the day would celebrate IRA members but people started putting words in his mouth and the whole idea was scrapped.

Personally, I thought it was a great idea because Paddy's Day isn't a celebration of anything other than inebriation.

humanji

Caliden wrote: »

Paddy's Day isn't a celebration of anything other than inebriation.

And what exactly do you think is going to happen if we had an Independence Day?

Da Shins Kelly

I guess it's probably because the issues around independence in Ireland are still pretty messy, what with the North and everything, and our independence was a much more drawn out, gradual process than simply fighting and winning a war and then signing a declaration of independence. I do think we should have something to at least commemorate the birth of the Free State or something like that, if independence is still a bit contentious.

gobnaitolunacy

humanji wrote: »

And what exactly do you think is going to happen if we had an Independence Day?

It'll be like Paddy's Day, with 50% extra Wolfe Tones choons.

Richard Hillman

NinjaK wrote: »

Because we are run by weak west brits who dont want to offend the Unionists even though they despise us..

I think you pretty much summarize why people do not want to be seen as flag waving patriots.

It BeeMee

humanji wrote: »

And what exactly do you think is going to happen if we had an Independence Day?

Michael D will fire missiles at a flying saucer from the Garda helicopter?

Rainblow

banbatoyota wrote: »

19th Jan - First Dáil met and War of Independence began

4th July - Truce with British Army signed

11th July - Truce with British Army came into effect

6th Dec - Anglo-Irish Treaty signed


Take your pick

But the taboo about celebrating let alone commemorating any of these is indeed nauseating.

Heaven forbid we Irish celebrate our own heroes

7th January, 1922 the Dail ratified the Treaty

6th December 1922 Provisional Government comes to an end. Free State begins.

December2012

Caliden wrote: »

Paddy's Day isn't a celebration of anything other than inebriation.

It is if you choose to celebrate it in a way that doesn't involve inebriation.

We bring kids to park, zoo, tayto park, parade, family dinner.

Watch Irish movies.

Decorate.

Drink not needed and its still a celebration.

And when you're in this world you realise there's a lot more people doing the same.

WindSock

humanji wrote: »

And what exactly do you think is going to happen if we had an Independence Day?

Troublemakers atroublemaking.

An Coilean

KTRIC wrote: »

Given today is the Day in 1776 that the good auld US of A declared independence from the Brits I thought I'd bring up this old chestnut again !! :rolleyes:

Two points, why is our independence from Britain such a taboo subject and how come we don't celebrate it ??

The reality of the process of our independance is something that remains controversial. It is dificult to celebrate a process that culminated in a treaty that started a civil war, saw the country partitioned and ultimatly saw the failure of the dream of 1916.

1916 is much more rightly celebrated as that was the event that both made independance possible without being sullied by its eventual reality.

wretcheddomain

I'd like to take the time to extend my warmest greetings to our Philippine and Rwandan friends who today respectively celebrate 'Republic Day' and 'Liberation Day'.

Caliden

December2012 wrote: »

It is if you choose to celebrate it in a way that doesn't involve inebriation.

We bring kids to park, zoo, tayto park, parade, family dinner.

Watch Irish movies.

Decorate.

Drink not needed and its still a celebration.

And when you're in this world you realise there's a lot more people doing the same.

You need only to look abroad to/visit other countries and see how they celebrate Paddy's day to find out how the day is perceived.

Good for you that you do something different but you've got a family so I wouldn't expect you to spend the day in the pub.

Crooked Jack

I'd imagine we'd have to have independence before worrying about an Independence Day.

December2012

Caliden wrote: »

You need only to look abroad to/visit other countries and see how they celebrate Paddy's day to find out how the day is perceived.

Good for you that you do something different but you've got a family so I wouldn't expect you to spend the day in the pub.

Well I don't really care about perceptions, I just do what suits me.

According to TV, today in America their kitchens will resemble Eddie Rockets and be full of Lidl / Aldi burgers, but I doubt that's reality.

Caliden

It's actually pretty accurate. Lots of high fiving, 'woo-ing' and cheering at explosions later tonight for the fireworks.

Crooked Jack

Caliden wrote: »

It's actually pretty accurate. Lots of high fiving, 'woo-ing' and cheering at explosions later tonight for the fireworks.

Im always amazed at how many of the american stereotypes that you see on TV and take with a pinch of salt turn out to be completely true.
I've been told by numerous americans that high school in the US really is exactly like what you see in films.
Jocks and geeks and cheerleaders and bullies and this weird social hierarchy and really intense rivalries.
Could you be arsed puttin up with all that shit

Iwasfrozen

bumper234 wrote: »

But Scotland is not an Island nation

Neither are we.

Iwasfrozen

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I guess it's probably because the issues around independence in Ireland are still pretty messy, what with the North and everything, and our independence was a much more drawn out, gradual process than simply fighting and winning a war and then signing a declaration of independence. I do think we should have something to at least commemorate the birth of the Free State or something like that, if independence is still a bit contentious.

+1,000

A Free State day would be worth it just to hear the 'RA heads howl.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I'd imagine we'd have to have independence before worrying about an Independence Day.

We isn't you.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We isn't you.

And you are certainly not "we" in any sense.

A Primal Nut

There is a simple explanation. The people who signed the treaty didn't consider it independance - even now we still have six counties that are not part of the Republic of Ireland.

I am sure if we ever had a 32-country republic we would then have a Unification Day or something like that.

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

And you are certainly not "we" in any sense.

If by we you mean those we accept violence in pursuit of a union of Ireland then you're right, I'm not "we".

A Primal Nut wrote: »

There is a simple explanation. The people who signed the treaty didn't consider it independance - even now we still have six counties that are not part of the Republic of Ireland.

I am sure if we ever had a 32-country republic we would then have a Unification Day or something like that.

Doubt it, don't expect unification to happen overnight even if a referendum is passed. It could take decades of preparation before Northern Ireland is handed over.

laoch na mona

there is a small commemoration the closest Sunday to the 19th of January every year where the WOI started ye can all attend if ye like

Pumpkinseeds

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

We seemed to be ashamed of our patriots, pathetic isn't it.

Depends on what you consider patriotic. Frankly the whole bloody 1916 sh*te bores the arse off me. The Americans have 1 day where they have a party and set off fireworks.It's just a fun day for most people over there and I doubt they really give a damn about the politics. This country has a never ending fcuking whinge fest about the 'revolution' and the 'brits'. Time for some people to get a life and move on.