Dissident turfcutters

mikom · 03-07-2013 02:05AM

MadsL wrote: »

Yeah, expected that. You actually don't want to discuss it.
So go to bed, save your energy for the turf.

Working on some almost overdue paperwork at the mo', so I'll be up for a while yet, daddy.
Plenty of sleep Friday night for Saturday though.
Good family day out.

MadsL · 03-07-2013 02:07AM

mikom wrote: »

Working on some almost overdue paperwork at the mo', so I'll be up for a while yet, daddy.
Plenty of sleep Friday night for Saturday though.
Good family day out.

I would have thought you would have outgrown taunting by now, so no discussion wanted then?

K-9 · 03-07-2013 02:49AM

mikom wrote: »

Explain to me again why you emigrated.

MadsL wrote: »

Explain to me again why my personal circumstances have anything to do with the issue.

Mod:

Leave it that, this isn't the mikom and MadsL show. Both of ye do not post again on this thread, thank you.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 06:05AM

joela wrote: »

Turfcutters thank known religious extremist, anti-semitic & far right group for supporting environmental vandalism.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=480233868730428&id=195445003875984

I know most of the turfcutters as i live in this area and they are not racist or right wing supporters.

John_Rambo · 03-07-2013 06:46AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I know most of the turfcutters as i live in this area and they are not racist or right wing supporters.

I doubt they are on fairness. Bit, K-9 just did your cause a big favour by asking Mikom not to post again. He was heading down a nasty avenue with his questioning and his attitude. Makes people wonder. Meanwhile, people still vote them as zeroes...

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 06:51AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I doubt they are on fairness. Bit, K-9 just did your cause a big favour by asking Mikom not to post again. He was heading down a nasty avenue with his questioning and his attitude. Makes people wonder. Meanwhile, people still vote them as zeroes...

Issues should be debated without getting personal with other people, and which ever side your views fall on this one is not over by a long shot yet.

There is a court case coming up soon over here and it will be interesting to see how it turns out for the 4 men involved.

John_Rambo · 03-07-2013 06:58AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Issues should be debated without getting personal with other people, and which ever side your views fall on this one is not over by a long shot yet.

There is a court case coming up soon over here and it will be interesting to see how it turns out for the 4 men involved.

You weren't exactly putting a good case across youself with the vague, lame "it's not free" bull, of course it's free to the person that claims they own the bog.

What court case are you highlighting?

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 07:20AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

You weren't exactly putting a good case across youself with the vague, lame "it's not free" bull, of course it's free to the person that claims they own the bog.

What court case are you highlighting?

No I said it's not free to people like me who buy the plot from the owner and save the turf ourselves on it.

Turf was cut in this area last year and there is an ongoing court case as a result of this set for December in the Galway courthouse.

I don't know how to post links but it's easy to find it.

K-9 · 03-07-2013 07:25AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I doubt they are on fairness. Bit, K-9 just did your cause a big favour by asking Mikom not to post again. He was heading down a nasty avenue with his questioning and his attitude. Makes people wonder. Meanwhile, people still vote them as zeroes...

Mod:

It is unfair on posters to discuss them after a thread ban, they've no right to reply after all. I see no need to personalise the debate, it just weakens points as some might wonder have posters nothing else to point out?

John_Rambo · 03-07-2013 07:29AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No I said it's not free to people like me who buy the plot from the owner and save the turf ourselves on it.

Turf was cut in this area last year and there is an ongoing court case as a result of this set for December in the Galway courthouse.

Eventually you explained what you meant after saying "it's not free" over and over again. Fact of the matter is that it IS free to owners or those with rights. Was it your intention to highlight that these people are profiting by cutting the illegal bog with industrial machinery?

Hopefully the courts will deal with these men properly. Some sections of society have a bad attitude towards our environment, litter, burning, polluting and destruction of habitat.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 07:37AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Eventually you explained what you meant after saying "it's not free" over and over again. Fact of the matter is that it IS free to owners or those with rights. Was it your intention to highlight that these people are profiting by cutting the illegal bog with industrial machinery?

Hopefully the courts will deal with these men properly. Some sections of society have a bad attitude towards our environment, litter, burning, polluting and destruction of habitat.

Yes the actual turf is free to those who own the turf bank but the expense of getting the hopper machine to cut it for them and the cost of bringing it home isn't, sure it works out cheaper but that's the reason people break their backs doing the work saving it which isn't easy I can assure you.

joela · 03-07-2013 09:04AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I know most of the turfcutters as i live in this area and they are not racist or right wing supporters.

I didn't say that most turf cutters were right wing or racist, I simply linked to a page representing said turf cutters. This is a page which persistently features this particular blog which is a racist, anti-semitic and fundamental religious blog and which the page "thanked" for support yesterday and many times before.

Now if you know these turf cutters and they do not support this blog or indeed the Facebook pages purporting to represent them then I would strongly urge you to advise them that this is how people will perceive them. The Facebook pages are filled with bile, feature photos of NPWS staff with their personal details such as phone numbers & make/model of car & car reg. Now please tell me you do not condone such bullying and obvious attempts at intimidation? Not only that but they have often named gardai, made personal comments about them, given their station and in some cases made accusations of assault. In addition if you simply view any of these pages you will see the bile and attacks on anyone who dares to question or debate with them. Personal attacks with comments made about visiting peoples houses.....

Whether they or anyone else likes it or not does not matter, this is the law, the law is an Irish law which was first transposed from the EU Habitats Directive in 1997. Bear in mind that even in 1997 we were late in putting the legislation into place, 5 years after we signed up to the Habitats Directive. Turf cutting was supposed to cease immediately on all bogs but Síle De Valera rolled back on it under pressure from contractors and cutters plus IFA etc. There was a 10yr derogation issued to allow time to "phase out" turf cutting and seek alternatives, this derogation in itself was not legal. Unfortunately the political will wasn't there to push forward with getting turf cutting on these sites phased out even when there were further bogs designated in 2002. This suited contractors and some turf cutters just perfectly, they simply ignored the purpose of the derogation assuming that the legislation would never be enforced. Well now it is 15yrs later and the ban was enforced from 2011 supposedly but still turf cutters thumb their nose at the law and the rest of the country. They had all that time to seek alternatives, always been compensation on offer, think ahead and work together to seek community solutions and other uses for the bogs. They have chosen instead to disregard a law that doesn't suit them, cost the taxpayers money in having to police them and will probably cost us all more in fines.

There is no justification for their behaviour, any turf cutters who actually own the land will continue to own it plus they can receive compensation or alternative bog or turf deliveries. They can then think ahead and look to sustainable uses of these bog sites which may include ecotourism and the associated needs of any tourists visiting the area. That is just a single idea but there are many more. This ridiculous shouting about tradition & rights must stop and the law respected.

OpenYourEyes · 03-07-2013 09:06AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yes the actual turf is free to those who own the turf bank but the expense of getting the hopper machine to cut it for them and the cost of bringing it home isn't, sure it works out cheaper but that's the reason people break their backs doing the work saving it which isn't easy I can assure you.

Surely the compensation on offer is even more attractive when you add in the fact that you don't have to pay the hopper machine anything? So you get the money/turf plus save the cost of that?

I think it again highlights that the people who are actually losing out here are the contractors, not the actual turfcutters. But unfortunately the contractors have managed to rally turfcutters around them.

AudreyHepburn · 03-07-2013 09:24AM

At the end of the the turf cutters are not digging their own bogs, but on bogs legally protected by the State for various reasons. They are breaking the law, of course they should be punished.

Or they could try to see sense and take the compensation being offered.

I don't like to see anyone losing their income or days work but that is not what is happening here.

Iwasfrozen · 03-07-2013 10:13AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

At the end of the the turf cutters are not digging their own bogs, but on bogs legally protected by the State for various reasons. They are breaking the law, of course they should be punished.

Or they could try to see sense and take the compensation being offered.

I don't like to see anyone losing their income or days work but that is not what is happening here.

Exactly, they should be lucky they're getting any sort of compensation at all.

Jester252 · 03-07-2013 11:54AM

The turf on thoses bogs is not free even if you "own" the bog. The taxpayer has to pay 9 million a year so they can cut turf.

end of the road · 03-07-2013 01:51PM

the state and some here want to protect the bogs badly enough so there fore will have to pay for it, so how about the state actually buy the protected bogs from the land owner, i say 1000000 per bog would be a good price, i'm sure those who are so uptight about habitats and species that the majority of people in this country don't know or care about will be willing to pay whatever the cost, otherwise get over the fact that people will cut turf on their land.

OpenYourEyes · 03-07-2013 01:59PM

end of the road wrote: »

the state and some here want to protect the bogs badly enough so there fore will have to pay for it, so how about the state actually buy the protected bogs from the land owner, i say 1000000 per bog would be a good price, i'm sure those who are so uptight about habitats and species that the majority of people in this country don't know or care about will be willing to pay whatever the cost, otherwise get over the fact that people will cut turf on their land.

Its not a good price because its a figure you plucked out of the air (or somewhere worse), its not at all realistic and absolutely no thought has gone into it - its either a lazy, idiotic or troll-ing figure. Possibly all three.

And it's gonna cost the state (and all of its citizens) money whether we protect it or not, its just infinitely cheaper if we protect them!

All of that information has already been given in this thread.

Sofiztikated · 03-07-2013 02:03PM

end of the road wrote: »

the state and some here want to protect the bogs badly enough so there fore will have to pay for it, so how about the state actually buy the protected bogs from the land owner, i say 1000000 per bog would be a good price, i'm sure those who are so uptight about habitats and species that the majority of people in this country don't know or care about will be willing to pay whatever the cost, otherwise get over the fact that people will cut turf on their land.

You have already been paid to not cut it.
we are being fined, for you cutting it.
Money is being spent on needless fúcking security detail.

****, I'd love to get money to fuel my house. But I have to pay, like most other people, for fuel.

What happens when you run out of bog?

runawaybishop · 03-07-2013 02:06PM

end of the road wrote: »

the state and some here want to protect the bogs badly enough so there fore will have to pay for it,

They don't have to pay for anything, just make it illegal and enforce it. The free turf, alternative bog or cash they offered was more than generous.

Corkfeen · 03-07-2013 02:09PM

end of the road wrote: »

the state and some here want to protect the bogs badly enough so there fore will have to pay for it, so how about the state actually buy the protected bogs from the land owner, i say 1000000 per bog would be a good price, i'm sure those who are so uptight about habitats and species that the majority of people in this country don't know or care about will be willing to pay whatever the cost, otherwise get over the fact that people will cut turf on their land.

If a person owns a protected habitat, they're expected not to wreck it.It's not a matter of if one intends on visiting it, by destroying the land, you destroy the habitat. You get wildlife and plant life that is entirely unique to the land. If you wipe out that ecosystem which you will, then you have a wiped out something that is rather unique to this country.

It also assists in controlling CO2 emissions, reduces flood risks in local areas. Just because you could do it before doesn't mean that the practise itself was okay. If people continue to cut turf, I am fully in favour of those individuals facing large fines. Just because you hold so little value in the land, doesn't mean that you should not face the consequences for your actions.

Uriel. · 03-07-2013 02:12PM

It seems the EU is starting to run out of patience

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/eu-warns-on-illegal-turf-cutting-599296.html

Irish Examiner wrote: »

European officials have raised “serious concerns” about continued illegal turf-cutting in Ireland and urged people to stop doing it.

As four men charged in connection with cutting turf on a special area of conservation in Co Galway learned they face trial in December, the European Commission warned such offences have both environmental and financial implications.

“The commission supports the prohibition on turf-cutting on these raised bogs as well as the range of measures that the Government has taken to accommodate all affected turf cutters, including financial compensation and re-location measures,” it said in a statement.

“The urgency of cessation of turf-cutting is underlined by the latest scientific assessments which show that around 38% of Ireland’s active raised bog habitat has been destroyed in the period 1995 to 2012, overwhelmingly as a result of turf-cutting.”

The commission has not demanded a ban on all turf-cutting in Ireland – just on 4% of the overall total area of bog land in the country.

But it warned that it has the right to take the issue to court to ensure compliance with the law.

It said not only does illegal turf-cutting result in the loss of “nationally and internationally important biodiversity”, it also costs the state which is obliged to compensate for the damage.

The European Commission and Ireland have worked together over the last 20 years to help conserve raised bogs, which are protected under EU directives.

But the commission said many of the bogs continue to be degraded and destroyed at “an alarming rate”, mainly because of peat cutting which damages the conditions essential for the raised bogs.

The commission said European officials appreciate measures being developed by the Irish Government, including a new national peatland strategy which is aimed at promoting conservation.

“Apart from undermining these objectives, continued illegal turf-cutting requires the authorities to devote resources to taking effective enforcement action,” it added.

Four men who appeared in court yesterday learned they will stand trial in connection with turf-cutting.

The alleged offences relate to three separate incidents at Clonmoylan Bog in south Galway in May and August last year.

Scores of people gathered outside Galway Circuit Court during proceedings to support the accused men.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 02:40PM

Not sure what the fines will be if convicted but some of the lads reckon it could run into hundreds of thousands, don't know how any of the men would ever be able to pay that amount.

joela · 03-07-2013 02:42PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not sure what the fines will be if convicted but some of the lads reckon it could run into hundreds of thousands, don't know how any of the men would ever be able to pay that amount.

Well they should have thought of that shouldn't they? Easy solution would be to stop cutting now, sign an agreement and be involved in the restoration. They'll still have fines but it might be less if they cop on now.

Sofiztikated · 03-07-2013 02:44PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not sure what the fines will be if convicted but some of the lads reckon it could run into hundreds of thousands, don't know how any of the men would ever be able to pay that amount.

I'll bet that turf isn't cheap/free now.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 02:50PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'll bet that turf isn't cheap/free now.

Look , I'm only saying what is going on, I don't use the protected bogs myself.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 02:51PM

joela wrote: »

Well they should have thought of that shouldn't they? Easy solution would be to stop cutting now, sign an agreement and be involved in the restoration. They'll still have fines but it might be less if they cop on now.

Won't happen, they're going to fight it to the end people are saying.

joela · 03-07-2013 02:54PM

BirdWatch Ireland Position Statement on illegal turf cutting http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/Ourwork/PolicyAdvocacy/PositionStatementillegalpeatcutting/tabid/1335/Default.aspx

Irish Wildlife Trust also release statement http://iwt.ie/2013/07/press-release-minister-deenihan-needs-to-explain-why-turf-cutting-is-continuing-on-so-called-protected-bogs/

joela · 03-07-2013 02:56PM

Well then they deserve to be fined heavily, the law isn't pick and mix.

Conmaicne Mara · 03-07-2013 02:57PM

Thread title is extremely misleading. I have yet to see a turf cutter in a balaclava or brandishing an RPG.

Dissident turfcutters

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