Dissident turfcutters

MadsL

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0629/459590-turf-cutting/

So AH, are they heroes standing up for Ireland or a bunch of idiots who cannot understand habitat protection.

Personally, I think there is huge self interest at play, people who have invested in expensive machinery who have riled up local people and are presenting it as some heroic effort.

Frosty McSnowballs

I'm going to go with the idiots option.

The Backwards Man

Bogland wasn't always bogland, you could argue they are returning the land to it's original state.:pac:

I have my legally cut turf ready for home so I've no opinion either way.

crazy cabbage

If the really cared about habitat protection they would take the land off bord na mona. The ones doing the real damage.

anncoates

Was stumped for a crap pun until I noticed the guy quoted in the article is called Pete.

Phew.

Rasheed

Got a text about it last night, the bog pictured wouldn't be far from me. Feelings are running high here about it.

MadsL

crazy cabbage wrote: »

If the really cared about habitat protection they would take the land off bord na mona. The ones doing the real damage.

Those are a different type of bog. It is raised not blanket bogs that are protected.

MadsL

Rasheed wrote: »

Got a text about it last night, the bog pictured wouldn't be far from me. Feelings are running high here about it.

Feelings? Better than 15k compensation?

Rabble rousing you mean.

Rasheed

MadsL wrote: »

Feelings? Better than 15k compensation?

Rabble rousing you mean.

Some of those people looked for another bog and haven't been offered one. We ourselves went for the compensation lady August. We've heard nothing since. Only we have another legal bog, I don't know what we'd do.

MadsL

Rasheed wrote: »

Some of those people looked for another bog and haven't been offered one. We ourselves went for the compensation lady August. We've heard nothing since. Only we have another legal bog, I don't know what we'd do.

Put in a modern heating system? Or pellet stove? This has been ten years notified that the ban was coming into effect in 2012.

keelanj69

I've a feeling we won't be telling our children stories about the heroes of the Turfcutters Rebellion 2013.

Rasheed

MadsL wrote: »

Put in a modern heating system? Or pellet stove? This has been ten years notified that the ban was coming into effect in 2012.

Yep all very true. Costs money for a modern heating system or a pellet stove though. I'm not defending the actions of the people that cut turf today or in the last few months on protected bogs. But if you applied for the Compensation or a replacement and haven't gotten either, you're going to get worried.

Chancer3001

Oh hi this is my bog. I've been cutting turf here for years.

Sorry you can't anymore.

Ok, what will I do instead?

Well, here's a worse one? Or we'll say we'll give you money but you have to wait a few years to get it.

No thanks. I'll just keep what what's mine. That I own.

Chancer3001

It's along the lines of hey your car releases too much emissions.

Give it to me.

And I'll give you a sh1tter one instead.

Don't think too many would be happier with that arrangement.

Zzippy

MadsL wrote: »

Those are a different type of bog. It is raised not blanket bogs that are protected.

AFAIK the peat bogs in the midlands, that BnM also cut, are all raised bog. Blanket bog is the bog on the upland areas along the west coast.

goose2005

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Oh hi this is my bog. I've been cutting turf here for years.

Sorry you can't anymore.

Because you are literally tearing the countryside apart to get a tiny bit of fuel. You can't burn whale oil either.

No thanks. I'll just keep what what's mine. That I own.

It's funny, the amount of money handed to landowners in subsidies over the years is enough to buy every acre many times over, but on matters like this they like to imagine that they're hardy and independent frontiersman.

Chancer3001 wrote: »

It's along the lines of hey your car releases too much emissions.

Give it to me.

And I'll give you a sh1tter one instead.

Don't think too many would be happier with that arrangement.

That's what happened to literally every driver on the road when leaded petrol was banned. We got over it.

Zillah

The short-sighted pursuit of resources is one of the single worst traits of humankind. It causes permanent damage to the natural world and destroys irreplaceable things forever more. You get a little fuel, future generations get to look at species and habitats in books instead of real life.

I choose preserving that unique natural asset for future generations over your access to convenient peat, without any hesitancy. I only wish previous generations had made similar decisions in regard to other resources. I only hope your short-sighted territorialism is a thing of the past.

MadsL

Zzippy wrote: »

AFAIK the peat bogs in the midlands, that BnM also cut, are all raised bog. Blanket bog is the bog on the upland areas along the west coast.

Other way round

In May 2010, the then Government announced the end of the 10 year derogation granted in 1999, which allowed a continuation of turf-cutting by land owners and turbary right owners for their own domestic use. Turf-cutting ceased immediately on 31 raised bogs designated as Special Areas of Conservation (SACs).

BnM have transferred their raised bogs

Bord na Móna owned 6 of the 7 "Red Flag" sites, all of which are now transferred to the National Parks and Wildlife Service for conservation. The Board also owns one of the representative sites, Knockacolla, which is scheduled for transfer to the Wildlife Service this year.

http://www.heartland.ie/articles/bord-na-m%C3%B3na-and-bog-conservation

MadsL

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Oh hi this is my bog. I've been cutting turf here for years.

Sorry you can't anymore.

Ok, what will I do instead?

Well, here's a worse one? Or we'll say we'll give you money but you have to wait a few years to get it.

No thanks. I'll just keep what what's mine. That I own.

Do you also think you should be allowed to burn car tyres and dump motor oil on land you own?

There are actions that only affect you and your land and actions that affect everyone, including the ecosystem.

Hedgemeister

Our local bog is 'protected', yet not six miles away, a whole 'live' bog is being exported to Holland, scraw by giant scraw.


Don't see anyone protesting about this practice.
This turf cutting ban is a joke, imo, and turf as the cheapest fuel option is long past with the cost going and up every year by about 30% (here-abouts at least) bad wet summers, combined with the new cost of bring it home from bogs further away which are not protected. It all adds up to expensive fuel unless you own your own patch of bog.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

The Backwards Man

Old and grey wrote: »

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

Wee bit harsh, no?

Rasheed

Old and grey wrote: »

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

Do you mean the men actually cutting the turf or the people that own the actual bogs?

MadsL

Hedgemeister wrote: »

Our local bog is 'protected', yet not six miles away, a whole 'live' bog is being exported to Holland, scraw by giant scraw.

Source for that?

galwayrush

Old and grey wrote: »

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Gee Bag

MadsL wrote: »

Other way round

Afraid not. Raised bogs occur on level terrain, Blanket bogs occur on slopes.

Jester252

Chancer3001 wrote: »

It's along the lines of hey your car releases too much emissions.

Give it to me.

And I'll give you a sh1tter one instead.

Don't think too many would be happier with that arrangement.

You do know that the NCT test car emissions right? You'll fail if there too high and your car is now not road legal. Also you don't get a replacement car or money. People are living with this and are not up in arms over it.

NuckingFacker

Jester252 wrote: »

You do know that the NCT test car emissions right? You'll fail if there too high and your car is now not road legal. Also you don't get a replacement car or money. People are living with this and are not up in arms over it.

If I kick Jimmy in the groin really, really hard, and he goes off whinging to himself but does nothing, whereas when I go to kick Mike in the groin really really hard and he sidesteps and puts me in an armlock, is your point that we should all be Jimmys?

Conmaicne Mara

They're pissing off a few crusties really well, so fair play to them

worded

Here we go agian,
why don't we just Burn the bog holders !

mickdw

We cut turf here but are still legally allowed to do so here. It is an age old tradition and I can see no valid reason for it needing to be stopped.
I do however see that the hopper and associated machinery is very destructive as they basically dig up large portions of the bog destroying surface habitats etc.
Why not therefore allow traditional methods of hand turf cutting?

galwayrush

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

They're pissing off a few crusties really well, so fair play to them

Something positive from the saga..:D

Sirfartsalot

The EU directive does set a new precedence in Irish bulls.hitery.

Preventing people whose families have used this source of fuel for generations is just nonsense.

Jester252

NuckingFacker wrote: »

If I kick Jimmy in the groin really, really hard, and he goes off whinging to himself but does nothing, whereas when I go to kick Mike in the groin really really hard and he sidesteps and puts me in an armlock, is your point that we should all be Jimmys?

No my point is don't use pointless arguement that add nothing.

NuckingFacker

Jester252 wrote: »

No my point is don't use pointless arguement that add nothing.

It does add somthing, you just don't get it. Some people don't take well to being told what to do/getting bossed around/sticking to other peoples nonsense agendas. They won't just take the kick in the rocks, they'll fight back a bit. And good for them. Bord na Mona thrash acre upon acre upon acre of bog, no problem. Small guys cut a bit - big issue. Feck off.

hfallada

They want to destroy something which took thousands of years to form and is so unique to Ireland. Some of the weirdest and incredible things have been found in the bog eg bog butter, deer horns. But yet they want to destroy it for a fuel that gives little heat. I think if they had high speed broadband, they would have something better to do and probably not destroying our heritage.

Conmaicne Mara

hfallada wrote: »

Some of the weirdest and incredible things have been found in the bog eg bog butter, deer horns.

If only we knew what activity people were engaged in leading to discoveries of items buried in the bog.

Where's Scooby Doo when you need him

end of the road

Old and grey wrote: »

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

LOL, sounds like we have an extremist among us, its only a f//king bog, get over it, cut away lads its your land, to arrest them and convict them would cost to much, once we set cab on them they will have nothing so will have to cut even more turf, heres an idea, how about those who want the bogs protected so badly club together and buy them, 1000000 per bog should suffice for the owners and allow them to have enough money to keep going for probably the rest of their life.

Galwayguy35

hfallada wrote: »

They want to destroy something which took thousands of years to form and is so unique to Ireland. Some of the weirdest and incredible things have been found in the bog eg bog butter, deer horns. But yet they want to destroy it for a fuel that gives little heat. I think if they had high speed broadband, they would have something better to do and probably not destroying our heritage.

I'd hazzard a guess you never saved turf did you?

Dostoevsky

Sirfartsalot wrote: »

The EU directive does set a new precedence in Irish bulls.hitery.

Preventing people whose families have used this source of fuel for generations is just nonsense.

Yes, because they've been using these enormous machines in the same bogs for generations also, right? Look at the massive machines in this RTÉ clip from today's news. Can anybody honestly say this is an ancient Irish tradition in practice?

These people are not some dispossessed post-Cromwellian spáilpíní fánacha, writing aisling poetry about a foreign king coming to save the Irish and attending cúirteanna while receiving patronage from the remnants of the Mac Diarmada Rua or the Ó Néill. No siree. They're trying to portray themselves as defenders of ancient tradition. Nothing, in reality, could be further from the truth.

These people are using very large machines to destroy these environmental areas for personal gain. They, and not the EU, are destroying the tradition which they claim to be defending. This has little to do with continuity of local turbary tradition, and everything to do with the oldest tradition of all, mé féinerism.

Jester252

NuckingFacker wrote: »

It does add somthing, you just don't get it. Some people don't take well to being told what to do/getting bossed around/sticking to other peoples nonsense agendas. They won't just take the kick in the rocks, they'll fight back a bit. And good for them. Bord na Mona thrash acre upon acre upon acre of bog, no problem. Small guys cut a bit - big issue. Feck off.

No it doesn't and don't try to claim its does. You seem to like pointless argument. Why should some people destroy the local eco-system when they feel like it? They is a major difference between Bord na Mona and some random farmer. The farmer does not have to answer to environmental issues in order to cut the turf unlike Bord na Mona.

washman3

Old and grey wrote: »

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

Exactly, lock them up in the same prison where the Anglo boys are languishing at the moment..:D:D

My God we do have some f#####g clowns posting here now.

washman3

MadsL wrote: »

Personally, I think there is huge self interest at play, people who have invested in expensive machinery who have riled up local people and are presenting it as some heroic effort.

Or maybe the 'vested interests' are our 'friends' in Europe who are constantly lobbied by the 'alternative fuels' brigade..?
Reminds my of our friend in the Green Party a few years ago stating that petrol should be €30 a gallon. Turned out this great guardian of the environment had €200,000 shares in an oil company.;)

Phoebas

washman3 wrote: »

Reminds my of our friend in the Green Party a few years ago stating that petrol should be €30 a gallon. Turned out this great guardian of the environment had €200,000 shares in an oil company.;)

Who was that?

NuckingFacker

Jester252 wrote: »

No it doesn't and don't try to claim its does. You seem to like pointless argument. Why should some people destroy the local eco-system when they feel like it? They is a major difference between Bord na Mona and some random farmer. The farmer does not have to answer to environmental issues in order to cut the turf unlike Bord na Mona.

I live in the bog. Bord Na mona cut peat 500m from my back window. So do my neighbours. I know who does more damage. I also had a laugh at your self-righteous guff about Bnm and the environment. They're currently stuffing millions of tonnes of Dublins garbage into a bog a few miles down the road. Environment me hole. I think your arguement is pointless, misinformed and just plain whingey. I'll keep mine, you keep yours.

MadsL

Rasheed wrote: »

Yep all very true. Costs money for a modern heating system or a pellet stove though. I'm not defending the actions of the people that cut turf today or in the last few months on protected bogs. But if you applied for the Compensation or a replacement and haven't gotten either, you're going to get worried.

Ten years to save and even residential grants available from Sustainable Energy Ireland for Irish residents. For a typical system installation, €800 of grant aid for a wood-pellet stove, €1,400 of grant aid for a stove with integral backboiler, or €2,500 for Biotech wood pellet boilers which will heat your entire house.

Dostoevsky

NuckingFacker wrote: »

I live in the bog. Bord Na mona cut peat 500m from my back window. So do my neighbours. I know who does more damage. I also had a laugh at your self-righteous guff about Bnm and the environment. They're currently stuffing millions of tonnes of Dublins garbage into a bog a few miles down the road. Environment me hole. I think your arguement is pointless, misinformed and just plain whingey. I'll keep mine, you keep yours.

It has been explained by MadsL, rationally and with a reference, that Bord na Móna is not cutting peat from one of the protected, raised "red flag" bogs. It has further been explained that Bord na Móna has transferred control of those protected raised bogs to the conservation authorities of this state. Why can you not accept this?

Raised Bogs

washman3

Phoebas wrote: »

Who was that?

i'll try to find the link. think i posted here a year or 2 ago to prove to some headbanger what was really behind this kind of bulls##t.

Dostoevsky

washman3 wrote: »

i'll try to find the link. think i posted here a year or 2 ago to prove to some headbanger what was really behind this kind of bulls##t.

Could this supposed "headbanger" have been Ciarán Cuffe, whose mother was a sister of Ethel Kennedy, Robert Kennedy's wife and who inherited wealth from that connection, a wealth which was revealed in 2003 when it transpired he had shares in environmentally 'unethical' corporations?

Just because you disagree with somebody does not mean they're a "headbanger".

MadsL

Zzippy wrote: »

AFAIK the peat bogs in the midlands, that BnM also cut, are all raised bog. Blanket bog is the bog on the upland areas along the west coast.

Gee Bag wrote: »

Afraid not. Raised bogs occur on level terrain, Blanket bogs occur on slopes.

Get it right.

http://www.ipcc.ie/a-to-z-peatlands/blanket-bogs/
http://www.ipcc.ie/a-to-z-peatlands/raised-bogs/

Almost a year ago to the day, we released a report revealing the ongoing destruction of Ireland’s protected raised bogs as a result of mechanised turf cutting (peat extraction for fuel), following unannounced site visits to 33 of Ireland’s 53 raised bog Natura 2000 sites. The report recorded widespread turf cutting on protected raised bogs on a scale which had not been reported by Irish authorities to the European Commission. source

Sirfartsalot wrote: »

The EU directive does set a new precedence in Irish bulls.hitery.

Preventing people whose families have used this source of fuel for generations is just nonsense.

People used slaves for generations to farm their land too, should that be also permitted?

MadsL

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Could this supposed "headbanger" have been Ciarán Cuffe, whose mother was a sister of Ethel Kennedy, Robert Kennedy's wife and who inherited wealth from that connection, a wealth which was revealed in 2003 when it transpired he had shares in environmentally 'unethical' corporations?

Just because you disagree with somebody does not mean they're a "headbanger".

Wonder what most people's pensions are invested in. Plenty of 'ethical' sh*t if you go digging.