The Anglo Irish Tapes

geeksauce · 01-07-2013 07:51AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

there is a certain element of truth in that, but then you didnt see other bank managers acting like that (not that we know of course) AND, the likes of Lenihan even on his death bed fought tooth and nail for this country to sort the mess.

of course this lot helped to blow the money with their wreckless policies but as Lenihan said himself before he died "we all partied".

No we didnt all party, that to me sounds like Lenihan trying to justify the mess he put this country in and actually shows how clueless he really was, he played one of the pivotal roles in ruining this country and tries to claim it was everyone, well it wasnt it was a very small few that fcuked things up for everyone.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2013 08:18AM

geeksauce wrote: »

No we didnt all party....

There might be a bit of loose language in saying that we all partied, but there was a bloody big party and lots of people were at it - some as hosts and some as guests. Most of us were at the party in one capacity or the other.

The minority who were not at the party are entitled to say so, but it becomes a bit boring to have a long queue of people lining up to say they weren't there. And it's misleading to suggest that there was no party.

homerjay2005 · 01-07-2013 08:18AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

5% of the population bought a second property, but hey, blame everyone.

and what about 100,000s of people who went and bought houses that were way over priced and considerably outside the limits of what they could afford? and how many have houses in Marbella or Villamoura? or how many people bought Jeeps/Suvs for 70/80k just to show off?

what about the 1000's of electricians, block layers, plumbers etc etc who were earning 5k plus a month and just blew it all, didnt invest in self education/training/pay down lump sums off their mortgages or just assume that every year would be like this and took out morgages based on those wages. and the auctioneers/solicitors who earned huge legal fees, sealing these big transactions....

what about the huge volume of 18 year olds who dropped out of the education system to persue "careers" in short term industries and now have nothing to fall back on?

i could go on and on, its not 100%, of course its not, but its way more than 5% an there are very few people over 25-30 in this country right now who didnt benefit from the boom.

we are as bad for keeping up with the Jones as any one. there is a house near us where the family cant pay the mortgage and their house was put up for sale this week. yet he drives a 12 BMW and she drives an X5 jeep.

no money, yet they still can "afford" over 150k outlay on cars? there is another couple near us that took out an 84k loan to buy furniture and a car and are unable to afford it...yet they still tried to send their child to an 11k a year private school.

what ever way you want to look at it, alot of people spend money in this country, that wasnt theres. some people played it safe (i know i did), but perhaps instead of going out on the piss four or five nights a week when i was 25, i could have limited that to two and saved a few quid for example. i could have also worked harder in college to get a better degree or spent some of my money going to do a masters.

its all contributing, people just did not plan for a rainy day.

geeksauce · 01-07-2013 08:33AM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There might be a bit of loose language in saying that we all partied, but there was a bloody big party and lots of people were at it - some as hosts and some as guests. Most of us were at the party in one capacity or the other.

The minority who were not at the party are entitled to say so, but it becomes a bit boring to have a long queue of people lining up to say they weren't there. And it's misleading to suggest that there was no party.

Where did I suggest there was no party?

I wasnt at the party in any capacity and neither were the majority of people I know, I do know of some that partied but are paying for it now yet they like others such as yourself seem to think the majority partied whereas the opposite is actually true.

People want to justify their own stupidity during the boom by claiming sure everyone did the same, when in reality they were stupid and should be paying for it now, however, because of the idiotic government at the time everyone is paying for it regardless of whether or not they were as stupid as the minority that partied.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2013 08:48AM

geeksauce wrote: »

Where did I suggest there was no party?
...

Here:

geeksauce wrote: »

No we didnt all party ... it was a very small few that fcuked things up for everyone.

It wasn't a small exclusive party. The point is that there was a big party that involved huge numbers of people, a party so big that to say that we all partied is near enough the truth. It is, as I said, loose language, but it's not seriously wide of the mark.

A small number of people could not have fucked things up for everyone without some sort of buy-in from Joe Public.

HansHolzel · 01-07-2013 08:54AM

Every town in the country has a number of solid small businesses ruined because so many village idiots thought they could become property tycoons.

homerjay2005 · 01-07-2013 08:56AM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

A small number of people could not have fucked things up for everyone without some sort of buy-in from Joe Public.

and thats it. Ireland bought it hook line and singer.

looking at it another way, did the 150k people who were somehow unable to find jobs during the boom have a problem with their dole being increased every year to some of the most generous levels in the world, costing us billions every year that could have been spent on Health, Education and other projects that werent done?

did many others object to it for that matter? nobody cared. billions were wasted yet nobody gave a s*it. how many people stood up and said "STOP".

dont get me wrong, i blame the bankers for this mess, they were right at the top of it, but alot of people made poor decisions and jumped on the money train.

Zebra3 · 01-07-2013 09:07AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and what about 100,000s of people who went and bought houses that were way over priced and considerably outside the limits of what they could afford? and how many have houses in Marbella or Villamoura? or how many people bought Jeeps/Suvs for 70/80k just to show off?

what about the 1000's of electricians, block layers, plumbers etc etc who were earning 5k plus a month and just blew it all, didnt invest in self education/training/pay down lump sums off their mortgages or just assume that every year would be like this and took out morgages based on those wages. and the auctioneers/solicitors who earned huge legal fees, sealing these big transactions....

what about the huge volume of 18 year olds who dropped out of the education system to persue "careers" in short term industries and now have nothing to fall back on?

i could go on and on, its not 100%, of course its not, but its way more than 5% an there are very few people over 25-30 in this country right now who didnt benefit from the boom.

we are as bad for keeping up with the Jones as any one. there is a house near us where the family cant pay the mortgage and their house was put up for sale this week. yet he drives a 12 BMW and she drives an X5 jeep.

no money, yet they still can "afford" over 150k outlay on cars? there is another couple near us that took out an 84k loan to buy furniture and a car and are unable to afford it...yet they still tried to send their child to an 11k a year private school.

what ever way you want to look at it, alot of people spend money in this country, that wasnt theres. some people played it safe (i know i did), but perhaps instead of going out on the piss four or five nights a week when i was 25, i could have limited that to two and saved a few quid for example. i could have also worked harder in college to get a better degree or spent some of my money going to do a masters.

its all contributing, people just did not plan for a rainy day.

And if any of those people racked up unsustainable debt they are paying for it.

It doesn't make it acceptable that all taxpayers were saddled with debts of private businesses.

Is that too difficult to understand?

geeksauce · 01-07-2013 09:17AM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Here:

Where? That does not suggest that at all in any way shape or form, are you just making this stuff up?

It wasn't a small exclusive party. The point is that there was a big party that involved huge numbers of people, a party so big that to say that we all partied is near enough the truth. It is, as I said, loose language, but it's not seriously wide of the mark.

A small number of people could not have fucked things up for everyone without some sort of buy-in from Joe Public.

It may have involved huge numbers but certainly was nowhere near "all", it was most definitely the minority that partied that led us into the situation we are in now.

mike65 · 01-07-2013 09:23AM

Ireland thought it won the lottery post 2002 and did a Viv Nicholson on it.

from wiki

Vivian Nicholson (born 3 April 1936) became publicly known overnight within Great Britain in 1961 when she received £152,319 (equivalent to £2.53 million in 2013, adjusted for inflation) in a football pools win, and announced to the press that she was going to "spend, spend, spend". Nicholson became the subject of tabloid news stories for years.

By her own admission, she found it hard to cope with the psychological effects of the money she had won. She came to feel distanced from the people she had lived among, who in turn could no longer relate to her, and developed an ever greater longing for a much more affluent area.

After her husband Keith died in a car crash in 1965, Nicholson's fortune rapidly dwindled to nothing: banks and tax creditors both deemed her bankrupt and declared that all her money, and everything she had acquired with it, belonged not to her but to Keith's estate.

Nicholson won a three-year legal battle to gain £34,000 from her husband's estate, but rapidly lost it all through bad investments.

homerjay2005 · 01-07-2013 09:35AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

And if any of those people racked up unsustainable debt they are paying for it.

It doesn't make it acceptable that all taxpayers were saddled with debts of private businesses.

Is that too difficult to understand?

but you are contradicting yourself there. in your first statement you are saying that the people who racked up the debt are paying for it, yet on your second line you say that its the tax payer.

do you not see the flaw here? those people are NOT paying for their mistakes. on top of the people who went mad in business as you say, theres almost 200,000 people behind in their mortgages.

is that too difficult for YOU to understand? nobody forced these people to buy a house for 800k on a 4k-5k a month mortgage that they could never sustain.

Almost one in five home loans, worth €25.5 billion, were not being fully repaid at the end of March, the Central Bank confirmed

and for all this talk about a banking crisis, add this fact above to the €50billion euro budget deficit that we have racked up in the last 3 or so years and you see this problem is not just about banking.

i will repeat however, this banking scandle is an absolute disgrace and i hope those ba*tards rot in jail for life. i am in no way condoning or defending them, i just want people to see that a tendancy in ireland to blame others is coming to the fore here and it wasnt just them that caused it. they facilitated it of course and their greed caused this but i more concerned about the mortgage and budget deficits than i am about the banking crisis. we esentially have 3 problems, but most focus on appears to be on one.

Zebra3 · 01-07-2013 10:04AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

but you are contradicting yourself there. in your first statement you are saying that the people who racked up the debt are paying for it, yet on your second line you say that its the tax payer.

do you not see the flaw here? those people are NOT paying for their mistakes. on top of the people who went mad in business as you say, theres almost 200,000 people behind in their mortgages.

is that too difficult for YOU to understand? nobody forced these people to buy a house for 800k on a 4k-5k a month mortgage that they could never sustain.

and for all this talk about a banking crisis, add this fact above to the €50billion euro budget deficit that we have racked up in the last 3 or so years and you see this problem is not just about banking.

People who racked up debt by buying a jeep or a second house have to deal with the consequences by either paying back what they owe, facing repossesion or selling off what they bought.

The 200,000 behind on their mortgages are not all living in houses they paid 8000k for. Many people just wanted to put a modest roof over their head.

And the main problem the state/taxpayer face is the previously private banking debt. Without it, the budget could've been balanced albeit with some short-term pain, but Leninhan's treachery has burdened the state/taxpayer with debt associated with a defeated warring nation for decades.

renegademaster · 01-07-2013 10:13AM

Next protest is at the Dail from 1 pm if you're unemployed or just have the time for whatever reason, 6pm if you're working or busy doing whatever, this will be huge and with your support we can make it so RTE have to cover it

https://www.facebook.com/events/169550859889655/170026616508746/?notif_t=like

rovoagho wrote: »

I love the way this thread had gone from focus on the disgusting animals that ran Anglo to self-flagellation. It doesn't get much more Irish than that.

What was I whining about again? Wasn't someone supposed to be punished for something? Must be me. Where's my cilice?

If you think the Anglo scum were laughing before, can you imagine what they'd be doing if they read this thread? It's one way of hospitalising them I guess.

Zebra3 wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lenihan betrayed the country. He gave corrupt banks a limitless guarantee on their debts.

And this bluster of "we all partied".... :rolleyes: 5% of the population bought a second property, but hey, blame everyone.

geeksauce wrote: »

No we didnt all party, that to me sounds like Lenihan trying to justify the mess he put this country in and actually shows how clueless he really was, he played one of the pivotal roles in ruining this country and tries to claim it was everyone, well it wasnt it was a very small few that fcuked things up for everyone.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There might be a bit of loose language in saying that we all partied, but there was a bloody big party and lots of people were at it - some as hosts and some as guests. Most of us were at the party in one capacity or the other.

The minority who were not at the party are entitled to say so, but it becomes a bit boring to have a long queue of people lining up to say they weren't there. And it's misleading to suggest that there was no party.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and what about 100,000s of people who went and bought houses that were way over priced and considerably outside the limits of what they could afford? and how many have houses in Marbella or Villamoura? or how many people bought Jeeps/Suvs for 70/80k just to show off?

what about the 1000's of electricians, block layers, plumbers etc etc who were earning 5k plus a month and just blew it all, didnt invest in self education/training/pay down lump sums off their mortgages or just assume that every year would be like this and took out morgages based on those wages. and the auctioneers/solicitors who earned huge legal fees, sealing these big transactions....

what about the huge volume of 18 year olds who dropped out of the education system to persue "careers" in short term industries and now have nothing to fall back on?

i could go on and on, its not 100%, of course its not, but its way more than 5% an there are very few people over 25-30 in this country right now who didnt benefit from the boom.

we are as bad for keeping up with the Jones as any one. there is a house near us where the family cant pay the mortgage and their house was put up for sale this week. yet he drives a 12 BMW and she drives an X5 jeep.

no money, yet they still can "afford" over 150k outlay on cars? there is another couple near us that took out an 84k loan to buy furniture and a car and are unable to afford it...yet they still tried to send their child to an 11k a year private school.

what ever way you want to look at it, alot of people spend money in this country, that wasnt theres. some people played it safe (i know i did), but perhaps instead of going out on the piss four or five nights a week when i was 25, i could have limited that to two and saved a few quid for example. i could have also worked harder in college to get a better degree or spent some of my money going to do a masters.

its all contributing, people just did not plan for a rainy day.

geeksauce wrote: »

Where did I suggest there was no party?

I wasnt at the party in any capacity and neither were the majority of people I know, I do know of some that partied but are paying for it now yet they like others such as yourself seem to think the majority partied whereas the opposite is actually true.

People want to justify their own stupidity during the boom by claiming sure everyone did the same, when in reality they were stupid and should be paying for it now, however, because of the idiotic government at the time everyone is paying for it regardless of whether or not they were as stupid as the minority that partied.

HansHolzel wrote: »

Every town in the country has a number of solid small businesses ruined because so many village idiots thought they could become property tycoons.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and thats it. Ireland bought it hook line and singer.

looking at it another way, did the 150k people who were somehow unable to find jobs during the boom have a problem with their dole being increased every year to some of the most generous levels in the world, costing us billions every year that could have been spent on Health, Education and other projects that werent done?

did many others object to it for that matter? nobody cared. billions were wasted yet nobody gave a s*it. how many people stood up and said "STOP".

dont get me wrong, i blame the bankers for this mess, they were right at the top of it, but alot of people made poor decisions and jumped on the money train.

mike65 wrote: »

Ireland thought it won the lottery post 2002 and did a Viv Nicholson on it.

from wiki

homerjay2005 wrote: »

but you are contradicting yourself there. in your first statement you are saying that the people who racked up the debt are paying for it, yet on your second line you say that its the tax payer.

do you not see the flaw here? those people are NOT paying for their mistakes. on top of the people who went mad in business as you say, theres almost 200,000 people behind in their mortgages.

is that too difficult for YOU to understand? nobody forced these people to buy a house for 800k on a 4k-5k a month mortgage that they could never sustain.

and for all this talk about a banking crisis, add this fact above to the €50billion euro budget deficit that we have racked up in the last 3 or so years and you see this problem is not just about banking.

i will repeat however, this banking scandle is an absolute disgrace and i hope those ba*tards rot in jail for life. i am in no way condoning or defending them, i just want people to see that a tendancy in ireland to blame others is coming to the fore here and it wasnt just them that caused it. they facilitated it of course and their greed caused this but i more concerned about the mortgage and budget deficits than i am about the banking crisis. we esentially have 3 problems, but most focus on appears to be on one.

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Greed! What ****ing greed? God forbid we'd want the same tv our European counterparts have. Or a ****ing patio or decking. Or holy ****e, a NEW car. And possibly a nice ****ing house to put them in.
A weak government, a corrupt banking sector and non existent regulator screwed this country and its citizens over.
The uber intelligent members of AH might have seen the folly of it all, but the average Irish soul, unfortunately didn't.
And stop pissing on them for it.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The blame game,once begun,can be very difficult to regulate,let alone stop.

However it's worth while considering who exactly we regarded as our European "Counterparts".

Talking about having a Patio or Decking in ones back garden might be ok,if you were talking to a European Senior Engineer or Medical Specialist perhaps,but to the vast majority of blue-collar European workers,living in rented apartments even an individual garden would be quite a major leap,hence the popularity of allotments,or plots in many EU Capitals.

So too the NEW Car,which so many of us regarded as a perfectly justifiable co-purchase along with our nice Fc##*ng House.

Taken on a like-for-like basis our European counterparts tended to live far more frugal lives altogether,to the extent of being labelled Dull n Boring by us when we visited them.

On a visit to Berlin in 2006,while having dinner with the In Laws of a friend,our hosts,a professional couple (Hospital Doctor and Design Engineer) were very curious as to our Motor Registration system.

Their family car,a 1993 Audi 80,spent most of it's life parked under a tarpaulin,whilst the family travelled by Public Transport.

They felt that the year denominator registration was far more to do with Flash and Expressionism than useful regulation..their registration remains with the owner and was/is transferred to whatever new vehicle they might buy,which gives little clue to a vehicles age from the reg plate.

To this professional couple living in a nice,but somewhat spartan apartment in Berlin,my 3 bed-semi in Tallaght,with gardens front and rear was something well beyond their means.

One does'nt require "Uber Intelligence" to understand the need to compare like with like,if we have to go down the comparison road at all.

pharmaton wrote: »

The Irish people were round up like sheep and hurdled along a corridor which led to the boomtime scenario. Whether it was referendums being forced over and over until the desired response was drawn out, the will of the people was relentlessly pushed into a default position that suited the values of a much larger European style program. Ireland didn't just benefit, everyone was benefiting.
The Americans then offloaded their debt to Europe.

Do you know why the Irish people don't resist?
Because everytime they did another referendum was held. People tried to say no but they got assraped anyway. They're psychologically burned out now.

awec · 01-07-2013 10:18AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lenihan betrayed the country. He gave corrupt banks a limitless guarantee on their debts.

And this bluster of "we all partied".... :rolleyes: 5% of the population bought a second property, but hey, blame everyone.

How many people took out unbelievable mortgages that vastly inflated the value of their property?

People didn't have alarm bells going off in their head when they were asking for 110% mortgages?

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2013 10:38AM

renegademaster wrote: »

Next protest is at the Dail from 1 pm if you're unemployed or just have the time for whatever reason, 6pm if you're working or busy doing whatever, this will be huge and with your support we can make it so RTE have to cover it

https://www.facebook.com/events/169550859889655/170026616508746/?notif_t=like

You are inviting people to march under the slogan "Jail the Anglo Bankers".

How about some appropriate preliminaries such as "Investigate the Anglo Bankers to see what, if any laws, they might have broken" and "Put the Anglo Bankers on trial"?

Or is proper legal process inconvenient for would-be revolutionaries?

Dyr · 01-07-2013 10:44AM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Or is proper legal process inconvenient for would-be revolutionaries?

It's certainly been inconvenient for the state when faced with would-be revolutionaries at various points in it's history and, as such, put to one side for the protection of the state.

Apparently when your pal's bankrupt the country that doesn't apply.

Zebra3 · 01-07-2013 10:51AM

awec wrote: »

How many people took out unbelievable mortgages that vastly inflated the value of their property?

You tell me. But I bet you it's nowhere near "all" as in "we all partied".

awec wrote: »

People didn't have alarm bells going off in their head when they were asking for 110% mortgages?

Again, how many people took out 110% mortgages? Please quote me the figures....

donegal_road · 01-07-2013 10:55AM

100 things Ireland could have for the price of the Anglo Irish bank bailout

OU812 · 01-07-2013 10:57AM

I'm unsubscribing from this thread. It's quite sickening.

who_me · 01-07-2013 11:10AM

awec wrote: »

How many people took out unbelievable mortgages that vastly inflated the value of their property?

People didn't have alarm bells going off in their head when they were asking for 110% mortgages?

Fair enough - though I think those with 110% mortgages would be a tiny minority. IIRC, they were only offered towards the latter stages of the boom, not everyone could get them, and not everyone who could get one, wanted one. Certainly not a case of "we all partied".

(And I hope you're not suggesting a moral equivalence between people being reckless with their personal finances - where they bear the brunt of their own behaviour; and financial professionals being reckless with other peoples money, incompetent in managing it, dishonest - and, IMO, fraudulent - in their dealings with the government, where everyone is now bearing the price of their behaviour?

)

Dyr · 01-07-2013 11:10AM

awec wrote: »

How many people took out unbelievable mortgages that vastly inflated the value of their property?

People didn't have alarm bells going off in their head when they were asking for 110% mortgages?

Maybe you should direct us to your many posts raising alarm bells about it?

Oh wait, ye only signed up in 2009, but the same applies for all the people-should-known-back then brigade. Show us some evidence that you knew.

awec · 01-07-2013 11:34AM

who_me wrote: »

Fair enough - though I think those with 110% mortgages would be a tiny minority. IIRC, they were only offered towards the latter stages of the boom, not everyone could get them, and not everyone who could get one, wanted one. Certainly not a case of "we all partied".

(And I hope you're not suggesting a moral equivalence between people being reckless with their personal finances - where they bear the brunt of their own behaviour; and financial professionals being reckless with other peoples money, incompetent in managing it, dishonest - and, IMO, fraudulent - in their dealings with the government, where everyone is now bearing the price of their behaviour? )

No, I'm not.

I am saying that while the banks certainly deserve a good chunk of blame the people have to have some laid at their feet as well.

People making stupid financial decisions, paying over the odds for their house or buying property that vastly exceeded what they should have owned.

Did people really think that prices would go up, and up, and up forever more?

As much as the banks are stupid for giving them the money, these people were stupid for asking for it in the first place.

On top of that, we have the political party who ran the show when this debacle occurred starting to gain momentum in the polls, and they will likely be a part of the next government. If that's not a clear indication of the idiocy of the people then I don't know what is. Incredibly hard to pass the buck of blame on that one.

Far too easy to land the blame at the feet of the government and the banks. A large amount of the population made silly financial decisions, the entire country was living in cuckoo land.

NORTH1 · 01-07-2013 11:43AM

nobody forced these people to buy a house for 800k

If you where working in a good job at that time, and walked into any bank, you would have been advised to get onto the property ladder. This they advised, is better then throwing money into the black hole that its renting.

I was lucky that I got in before the boom, but I seen the value of the property multiply by 8. Now the next advise been thrown out by the banks at the time was, you need to invest the equity in your property by buying additional property, luckily I didn't do this, but I had people telling me I was mad not to at the time.

To say people where partying and living lavishly is wrong, they where living in that time. And receiving bad advise from the people in this country that use to be the place you would go to get sound advise. But where were they getting their advise from at the time?

Zebra3 · 01-07-2013 12:03PM

awec wrote: »

No, I'm not.

I am saying that while the banks certainly deserve a good chunk of blame the people have to have some laid at their feet as well.

But not all of "the people" are to blame, are they? :rolleyes:

homerjay2005 · 01-07-2013 12:10PM

NORTH1 wrote: »

If you where working in a good job at that time, and walked into any bank, you would have been advised to get onto the property ladder. This they advised, is better then throwing money into the black hole that its renting.

i could advise you to go out and jump off a cliff, would you do it? you get people telling you every day what to do, yet most people chose to make up their own minds. nobody forced these people to pay for over priced houses. it comes with a historic obsession in ireland , to own everything you have, a trait that doesnt exist in alot of European countries.

and for what its worth, people were getting mortgages for 3k or 4k a month when renting property in the area was half that.

i live in a nice part of Dublin and want to live here as i like it. i took the conscious decision to rent about 6-8 years ago, as prices are way over priced. if i had bought my house around 2007, it would have given me a mortgage of about 3,500 a month, it would be about 2,800 if i bought now.

right now i am paying 1420 in rent and i can move out/leave if i need to. you can argue about all black holes all you want, but the figures dont lie. people did short term planning for long term benifit without thinking about the risks.

"ah sure, i can sell it on in 5 years time and make big money" was the attitude the fueled the beginning of the end of the Irish economy. buying 2nd houses was one problem, but 1000's of people bought their houses to make money. it backfired on them and now they are stuck in places they dont want to live or are able to afford. i know marraiges that have broken up due to the stress that these gambles caused, fuelled by greed.

i personally have no sympathy for them, though it is sad and tragic when you here some of the stories going around. two people commited suicide last week due to this very thing - bought their house looking to make money, couldnt sell it and now cant afford to pay it back.

Zebra3 wrote: »

But not all of "the people" are to blame, are they? :rolleyes:

no, but we cant just blame about 10 people as you and others appear to be doing. i dont own a house, i dont have any debts as i was sensible but i still blew 1000's of euros on things that i didnt need or could have done without. the problem is, others did the same, but the volume of money involved was 10 fold.

awec · 01-07-2013 12:17PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

But not all of "the people" are to blame, are they? :rolleyes:

Of course not, but there's no point pretending that it was only a few of them.

Grandpa Hassan · 01-07-2013 12:37PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

But not all of "the people" are to blame, are they? :rolleyes:

No. But a large enough proprtion to be able to generalize as 'society'

mike65 · 01-07-2013 12:40PM

A transaction requires a seller and a buyer, the latter needed to show some character.

donegal_road · 01-07-2013 12:41PM

If I applied to the bank for a loan of eg. €100,000 for my business, and then was caught on a recorded phone call to a friend, sneering at the fact that I had no intention of paying it back, do you think the bank would use the recording in evidence against me in court?

The directors at Anglo conspired to borrow €30 billion from the people of Ireland, with no intention of paying it back.

Zebra3 · 01-07-2013 12:43PM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No. But a large enough proprtion to be able to generalize as 'society'

How large a proportion did?

And it still doesn't equal FF's lies that "we all partied".

The Anglo Irish Tapes

Comments