The super honest what's wrong with the IAA thread 2013 mod warning post 1 and post53

Some of those of whom you are so critical have done a lot for the sport in the past, yet in some quarters do not get any recognition for their time and efforts because of a variety of reasons.

When they attempt to air their grievances, all they receive is a torrent of abuse and ridicule and very little discussion. Every story has two sides and both should be heard

We should learn from our history, but for whatever reason, some people do not want that history exposed or discussed under any circumstances.

As Boards.ie is a discussion site and is subject to various levels of oversight, I do not understand why that discussion can not take place here.

There been a variety of accusations of bias and unfairness leveled against the Mod team yet not one poster has substantiated these with examples. The Cmods and Admins are there to ensure the Mods act within not only the letter of the Charter but also the spirit.

I have to say that based on my experience with the Rionegro event the place where it is all happening is Facebook.

I stuck with the traditional Airsoft forums in the last two years and deliberately held off publicising the event there until about 6 week beforehand last year. The increased interaction was immediately apparent. I am seeing the same thing this year.

Without exaggeration I would say that (excluding 1:1 email) 95% of our interaction with the airsoft community is through Facebook. Posts there get immediate and lengthy responses and comments. Whereas you can see that the Rionegro thread here on boards (as well as the ones on AirsoftIreland and Airsofter) are ghost towns by comparison.

Love it or hate it (and personally I am no fan of Facebook) it is where the people are these days.

The title of the link that was posted by Dogwatch is useful links. As the IAA are there to give information to airsofters, boards has a couple of useful threads that they may use.
The link for contact information on the other hand is this:

http://irishairsoft.ie/?page_id=14

It does not mention boards as a method of contact or communication.

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

The point of my post is that if the argument is that the website is out of date - then the information he is posting should be considered out of date too and also deemed to be out of date.

Out of curiosity, which bit of what he posted is out of date? What he posted were originally intended as statements of fact by the IAA themselves. Facts don't go out of date; they can only be disproved if they are wrong.

Bit different from the listed current committee.

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

I would argue that "Boards.ie was and still is at the heart of the Irish Airsoft community." is no longer a correct statement - though I do not believe that is text which will you will find on the IAA website, the quote from the website was being used to support it. The heart of the Irish Airsoft community (in online terms) is on facebook and it is diffuse by nature - spread across a number of pages and groups and held together by constant communications between players from around the country who while they may never have met in person are friends on facebook and share their news that way.

My issue with this is detailed above and this isn't even an issue which I care about - it was simply a comment. The issues I feel strongly about have been detailed in my longer post.

I'm not overly fussed either to be perfectly honest. I was curious to know which bit you felt was incorrect. There was a time when boards was the hub of activity for the Irish community; but with time, growth, disagreements, etc. the community has exceeded the boundaries of boards and that community is now spread out across multiple websites, facebook, and with people who don't bother with online activity. It's becoming a younger, smaller miniature version of the UK community (or any other national community I would wager).

With that in mind, I wouldn't suggest that it's all on facebook either. Not everyone uses facebook; same way that not everyone uses boards.ie et al.

The heart of the Irish airsoft community is, and always has been, the airsoft site. Without it, there is no airsoft.

Edit: With my comments regards the Irish airsoft community growing up and spreading out; I do believe that the recriminations (past & present) towards the IAA need to be parked by the door. Yes the IAA needs critical feedback, but with that comes responsibility to suggest solutions. It's easy to point out what's wrong with life, the universe, and everything, but it's far harder (and more useful) to suggest realistic, sensible solutions.

So if someone says "this needs changed", and the IAA don't get it done in a timely manner, rather than whinging about it, perhaps ask "what do you need to get this done?". If nothing else, it will engage conversation and perhaps open up some other avenues to effect change.

Wow I dont come into this forum any longer (for reasons exactly like this thread) looks like its not changed at all around here.

Re the IAA guys not using this site, I think you are blowing the current importance of boards.ie out of proportion. Yes boards.ie was a key part in the sports foundation and growth, but that has changed. Only a small % of players and even less collectors know about this place, it may be the largest dedicated irish airsoft online community, but that is still tiny compared to the actual player base.

I think the new committee is focusing the resources on the channels that will reach the broadest sections of the public, that is not boards.ie any more. Them not wasting time (and their sanity) posting here will not cause a loss of sleep for anyone waiting to see decent promotion of the sport.

(dont bother replying to me, I wont be back to see them)

I did some pretty indepth statistical analysis last year in terms of traffic and reach to the player base. I didn't solicit boards.ie for visitor numbers as I had been refused this previously from another forum. I used the number tracking at the bottom of the main forum, along with the public stats boards.ie provides.

It returned some pretty interesting data. I think what Fayer was trying to convey, is that while boards.ie was once perceived as being the main centre of airsoft, and at present is probably one of the most developed(however not mature) the actual traffic it receives is significantly lower then other avenues. In other words there is a big site here with alot of sub-forums and threads, but the actual throughput by individuals is pretty low.

I don't need to go into the main details and specifics, but Facebook was by far the biggest traffic centre for players looking for the IAA followed by the IAA website, routed via Twitter. Now if your a longtime player, ask yourself how many times you visit the website a week, or a month. Unless there is something big up, probably zero.

Surprisingly enough, there was monster traffic through the website during my time with the IAA, obviously spiking with new posts, but having a consistently high flow of data.

Also I think your google search is skewered. You've done that search based from a localised search for Ireland. Google will try filter your search to localisation and then provide results. If you do a search from a global point of view with no localisation, the IAA website comes in the top 10 sites globally. If you search Irish airsoft, it comes in the top 5.

But lets be frank here, the reason the IAA is probably not posting here, and has been weary in the past, is not because of low traffic. It takes two minutes to send a PM here to get a news post up. The issue is a collection of a few things

Perception that boards.ie hierarchy is Anti-IAA
Player feedback via social media platforms that boards.ie is not their main platform for airsoft discussion
Significant numbers indicating they are not members or posters to boards.ie
Retailers and sites no longer promoting boards.ie to new players or collectors, as a main resource.

There is some other stuff lack downward spiral of content etc., but the above comes from fact and it's not open for speculation. Think about it. When we started forums where a really main platform of communication for communities of all sorts. Facebook was in it's infancy and not available in Ireland. Bebo was the social media king of Ireland at the time.

There has been a total shift in simply how the world operates online. I still will always prefer a forum, I prefer the structure and detail, and making users actually write something in correct grammar. Facebook is a horrendous platform to host a community and have any debate. But at the end of the day, it's the default go to for most of the world, and you can't expect anyone to launch a crusade against it.

If your a 15-20 year old wanting to talk about airsoft or find out about airsoft, the likely hood is Facebook is the first port of call, rather then a forum. I can even acknowledge this from League of Legends. Reddit is the main global community, but in Ireland, it's a Facebook group. Horribly formatted and horribly structured, but it's where everyone is at.

Here at boards, a MOBA forum is being setup. For starts the LoL community has little interested because its not dedicated league of legends, but general consensus from the Facebook group, from people who don't use boards is that ( the following from a prominant LoL community guy

Why would we go to boards? The community here is well developed, and discussions are well beyond that place. It's where new people go to get some info, or ask how to install the game You'll never see good stuff there about meta game or evolution of ****, it's for all the new guys to ask the questions we covered here a million times

And I've noticed to be fair, that this is becoming the trend. I'm on alot of forums here, and the overwhelming trend in the last 18-20 months is that posters come to a forum fresh, looking for information, getting it, hanging around for a while. Then they realise there is nothing of value past a certain point, and they move on to somewhere of higher value. That has been extremely noticable in a few sub-gaming forums, and particularly here

TheDoc wrote: »

Also I think your google search is skewered. You've done that search based from a localised search for Ireland. Google will try filter your search to localisation and then provide results. If you do a search from a global point of view with no localisation, the IAA website comes in the top 10 sites globally. If you search Irish airsoft, it comes in the top 5.

I specified google.ie because that is what users in Ireland will be auto-directed to when they visit google, unless they explicitly state otherwise. So whilst you are correct from a global perspective, when joe-soap newbie decides to check out airsoft for the first time, they're probably just going to run with whatever localised view google serves up, making boards.ie likely as a port of call.

But lets be frank here, the reason the IAA is probably not posting here, and has been weary in the past, is not because of low traffic. It takes two minutes to send a PM here to get a news post up. The issue is a collection of a few things

Perception that boards.ie hierarchy is Anti-IAA
Player feedback via social media platforms that boards.ie is not their main platform for airsoft discussion
Significant numbers indicating they are not members or posters to boards.ie
Retailers and sites no longer promoting boards.ie to new players or collectors, as a main resource.

As I've said already; I believe that the hatchet on all things IAA-grievance related need buried by all concerned - that extends to all past & present committee members. It is a fight that will never be won, does nothing but cement further division, and just pisses everyone off.

People need to let go on both sides of the fence, and as I have also already said, engage with the IAA instead of pointing fingers (and vice versa the IAA itself instead of perceived circling the wagons constantly).

There is some other stuff lack downward spiral of content etc., but the above comes from fact and it's not open for speculation. Think about it. When we started forums where a really main platform of communication for communities of all sorts. Facebook was in it's infancy and not available in Ireland. Bebo was the social media king of Ireland at the time.

There has been a total shift in simply how the world operates online. I still will always prefer a forum, I prefer the structure and detail, and making users actually write something in correct grammar. Facebook is a horrendous platform to host a community and have any debate. But at the end of the day, it's the default go to for most of the world, and you can't expect anyone to launch a crusade against it.

But all of the above is speculation. We have no hard & fast numbers, only anecdotal observations Doc. Whilst I'm not disputing the observed pattern, I think you're attaching undue significance to the impact of facebook. It's a factor of convenience, but that's where facebook starts and stops. As you've said; it's a horrendous medium for any sort of discussion. And I have found that over time, I check the status notices rather than visit a given page because I know that 90% of the time it'll be an absolute ball-ache to follow. If I want to find anything, I know not to bother if it's older than a couple of days.

What facebook groups are fantastic for is pushing out updates/announcements by sites & retailers, where information/discussion is throw-away and short-term. But as a discussion platform? No. In its current format, absolutely not.

And to be perfectly truthful, facebook is not my default port of call if I want to find a community because of that reality. I may go and take a look after a google, or if a community/site/whatever says it has a facebook group page. And that is simply because facebook is not user friendly when trying to find information.

If your a 15-20 year old wanting to talk about airsoft or find out about airsoft, the likely hood is Facebook is the first port of call, rather then a forum. I can even acknowledge this from League of Legends. Reddit is the main global community, but in Ireland, it's a Facebook group. Horribly formatted and horribly structured, but it's where everyone is at.

That will change. 15-20 year olds grow up and their tastes/opinions/views are the most likely of any age demographic to change wildly with great frequency.