The Anglo Irish Tapes

Boombastic · 29-06-2013 02:09AM

The DPP have these tapes in their possession a while, it is only now they are in the public domain that they decide they might want to do something. I suppose 4 years wasn't enough for them.

This is disgusting

Boombastic · 29-06-2013 02:40AM

Ahem, I'll just leave this here, don't jump to conclusions

Revealed: top 13 borrowers who owe Anglo Irish Independent 15 APRIL 2012

Denis O'Brien, the telecoms entrepreneur, is listed as owing Anglo Irish Bank €833.8m on foot of personal and corporate loans just after the bank was nationalised in 2009, making him its then sixth largest borrower..........................................

Ireland's fourth richest man is understood to hope to reduce his borrowings to €300m some time this year as part of an extensive, agreed debt-repayment plan. He has not missed an interest payment and is considered the bank's best-performing large borrower........................................................................................................

This purchase was controversial as the taxpayer took a €105m hit on Siteserv's sale and there were allegations that the company might have been sold for more to a trade buyer.........................................................................................................

"Anglo Irish Bank has been blamed for absolutely everything that has gone wrong in Irish banking. That is both wrong and unfair," Mr O'Brien said in 2009..............................................................................

Much of Mr O'Brien's and his fellow 12 borrowers' lending took place under David Drumm, Mr FitzPatrick's successor as chief executive, with funding from German and French money markets.

Now, my only question is, if he owes in the region of €300 million, how is he Irelands 4th richest man?

K-9 · 29-06-2013 02:43AM

Boombastic wrote: »

Ahem, I'll just leave this here, don't jump to conclusions

Revealed: top 13 borrowers who owe Anglo Irish Independent 15 APRIL 2012

Denis O'Brien, the telecoms entrepreneur, is listed as owing Anglo Irish Bank €833.8m on foot of personal and corporate loans just after the bank was nationalised in 2009, making him its then sixth largest borrower..........................................

Ireland's fourth richest man is understood to hope to reduce his borrowings to €300m some time this year as part of an extensive, agreed debt-repayment plan. He has not missed an interest payment and is considered the bank's best-performing large borrower........................................................................................................

This purchase was controversial as the taxpayer took a €105m hit on Siteserv's sale and there were allegations that the company might have been sold for more to a trade buyer.........................................................................................................

"Anglo Irish Bank has been blamed for absolutely everything that has gone wrong in Irish banking. That is both wrong and unfair," Mr O'Brien said in 2009..............................................................................

Much of Mr O'Brien's and his fellow 12 borrowers' lending took place under David Drumm, Mr FitzPatrick's successor as chief executive, with funding from German and French money markets.

Now, my only question is, if he owes in the region of €300 million, how is he Irelands 4th richest man?

We all know the Indo is a FF mouth piece.

skimpydoo · 29-06-2013 02:48AM

K-9 wrote: »

We all know the Indo is a FF mouth piece.

You do know that Denis is a big FG supporter so not to sure if Indo is still a FF mouthpiece.

MrPoker · 29-06-2013 03:01AM

bumper234 wrote: »

So who should organize it? See this is the problem we have here no matter who organizes it there will be people like you saying "oh such and such is organizing/gonna be there so i am not going cos i focking hate them blah blah blah" Tell us who should set this up tell us how it should be done. You may dislike Higgins and the socialists but unlike you at least they are doing something to bring attention to this farce.

We organise it ourselves. Cmon the biggest forum in the country. Lets go!

Boombastic · 29-06-2013 03:02AM

skimpydoo wrote: »

You do know that Denis is a big FG supporter so not to sure if Indo is still a FF mouthpiece.

Moriarty tribunal

All of the payments were routed through intermediaries, according to the tribunal findings.

They included:

IR£147,000 paid by Mr O'Brien to Fine Gael fundraiser David Austin and then given to Mr Lowry.
Stg£300,000 drawn from an O'Brien account by accountant Aidan Phelan and used in connection with two UK property deals involving Mr Lowry.

expectationlost · 29-06-2013 05:05AM

Scofflaw wrote: »

...and that seems to be completely at odds with what you said about the regulator, the central bank, and FF all knowing what was really happening:

What you seem to be saying is that the establishment knew what was happening but let Anglo ask for less than they needed even though they knew it was less than they needed in order to...to what? Allow Anglo to think they were suckering the state into a drip-feed of support while always intending a drip-feed of support because they already knew the bank was completely screwed?

A few too many twists and turns there for me!

more than slightly baffled,
Scofflaw

they all wanted to put the skin in the game too

clairefontaine · 29-06-2013 05:28AM

They can get Drumm on failure to disclose and have him extradited.

If they choose not to, that will tell you everything.

brandon_flowers · 29-06-2013 05:48AM

Boombastic wrote: »

Ahem, I'll just leave this here, don't jump to conclusions

Revealed: top 13 borrowers who owe Anglo Irish Independent 15 APRIL 2012

Denis O'Brien, the telecoms entrepreneur, is listed as owing Anglo Irish Bank €833.8m on foot of personal and corporate loans just after the bank was nationalised in 2009, making him its then sixth largest borrower..........................................

Ireland's fourth richest man is understood to hope to reduce his borrowings to €300m some time this year as part of an extensive, agreed debt-repayment plan. He has not missed an interest payment and is considered the bank's best-performing large borrower........................................................................................................

This purchase was controversial as the taxpayer took a €105m hit on Siteserv's sale and there were allegations that the company might have been sold for more to a trade buyer.........................................................................................................

"Anglo Irish Bank has been blamed for absolutely everything that has gone wrong in Irish banking. That is both wrong and unfair," Mr O'Brien said in 2009..............................................................................

Much of Mr O'Brien's and his fellow 12 borrowers' lending took place under David Drumm, Mr FitzPatrick's successor as chief executive, with funding from German and French money markets.

Now, my only question is, if he owes in the region of €300 million, how is he Irelands 4th richest man?

Because his assets are worth a lot more than €300m. Denis O'Brien is a business man, he runs real businesses all over the world. He was not some jumped up little prick from Carlow or Clare who bought half of Ballsbridge or Edenderry or some other random place and then couldn't pay back a red cent. Property developers are a parasite in an economy, they create no employment directly and just try to make a quick buck by screwing everybody in the way.

That's putting aside Denis O'Brien and all his connections with Lowry etc which is miles off-topic and this thread shouldn't get into that.

The DPP must feel that it can land a prosecution but the thing is how difficult will it be? The legal technicalities are probably a minefield in this case.

Boombastic · 29-06-2013 06:07AM

This is a new tape? clip 12 a at the bottom of the page
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/theyve-signed-our-death-warrant-says-drumm-in-latest-anglo-tape-29381746.html

Chinasea · 29-06-2013 07:49AM

But I remember this: "Reprimand for German envoy over his 'coarse' Irish speech" in 2007, and the hysteria, consternation, mass sterotyping of Germans and denial/outrage it caused here, when the fact of the matter was that the man was driven to speaking about the outrage he saw happening in his 15-minute speech which the ambassador included to say:

Ireland was a "coarse place".
Junior ministers here earned more than the German Chancellor.
Some 20pc of the population were public servants.
Our "chaotic" hospital waiting lists would not be tolerated anywhere else
Doctors' rejection of €200,000 a year posts on the basis that this sum was "Mickey Mouse" money

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/reprimand-for-german-envoy-over-his-coarse-irish-speech-26318339.html

I wonder what Mr Christian Pauls thinks now when he hears those tapes.....

Allyall · 29-06-2013 08:33AM

TBH i have avoided this thread as everything about this whole thing has my blood frying.

The fact that somebody had the tapes, the fact they were released, the fact it took so long, and the obvious facts that it all happened, the bail out, the bankers and the rest.

This thread is wayyyy to long to read through now, and i'll probably see something else that would push my limits a little farther.

But, does it look likely in any way, that any of these will pay?

Is there any inkling that ONE of them might do time?

DeLaTroY · 29-06-2013 08:56AM

To me, many people are missing the point to a certain extent. Getting upset at Anglo getting their bailout is akin to blaming children for nagging their parents in the supermarket when they were bought sweets. It's the parents with the power. Through their natural desires, the children are obliged to nag, kick and scream. The responsibility to curb their wishes falls squarely with the parent.

The Anglo Tapes are revealing but not exceptional to how people generally act I think. If you're part of something, you're going to try and save it if you can. I would hazard a guess that most of us if put in Bowe's, Fitzgerald's or Drummer's position would have, in a general way, acted in similar fashion if we're being honest. It was the central bank and Fianna Fáil that green-lighted the bailout for which each taxpayer is now condemned to repaying 30 billion euro.

Where does this leave the public then? It was we who elected those in power at the time to represent us to act in our best interests. They turned out to be a terrible representatives - a reflection of our abject complacency.

DeVore · 29-06-2013 09:08AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/independent-limits-coverage-of-anglo-tapes-following-contact-from-dpp-1.1447110

mark my words from earlier...

29-06-2013 09:15AM

Huge complicity here across multiple high level people in positions of power across government agencies

Noreen1 · 29-06-2013 09:33AM

K-9 wrote: »

Ok, I think we are getting bogged down in tit for tat style posting.

I'll leave Quinn aside, I think we've disagreed on Quinn threads at the time, and we aren't going to agree here, plus it is a bit off topic. My interest is just seeing the state bank get one of its biggest assets under control. If he'd ran his businesses correctly, (and not shown such a disregard for regulators, the same regulators we are giving out about now) just like Anglo, we wouldn't be discussing it.

Just on the bankers thing and the bravado comment, I wish we still had prudent banks like we had for most of our history, even in the 80's it was hard to get a mortgage even if we had the PMPA fiasco. Even if that was a stupid buy, and they didn't do their proper due diligence, at least banks acted prudently most of the time.

I want to see these guys punished as much as anybody else. My concern is that people see through how banking has changed, really if anybody learns anything from this mess is that banks do not have your interest at heart, and I've no doubt if the crash hadn't happened, people would still be duped, and the bubble would still be going on.

I remember Prime Time doing an investigation on banks dealing with old people a couple of years ago, and getting them to invest in products, the advantage they took of innocent, decent, naive people concern me far more than the property crash.

I don't see any point in discussing Sean Quinn, tbh - and I'm quite happy to agree to disagree. Time will (hopefully) tell!

I also wish we had prudent banks. I wish even more that we had ethical banks.

As to PMPA - you're right. That was another debacle - and it makes me wonder if it didn't set a precedent for the current debacle?

I didn't see the Prime Time investigation. I did, however, attend a meeting an elderly gentleman was invited to by his bank, (not Anglo! one of the so-called "reputable":rolleyes: banks) to discuss "investment opportunities".

Investment opportunities, my eye!
A very pretty young lady, with a skirt at least 6 inches shorter than any other staff member, basically invited him to invest his life savings, in various portfolios that had doubled in value in the previous 10 years. There was no security for his investment - he stood to lose everything, no guaranteed interest rate - in short - nothing you would expect any reputable financial agency to recommend to someone with no investment experience, and who required, primarily, low, or no risk investment!.

Note, he had not requested advice. Nor was this very pretty young lady willing to give any documentation when asked.
So, I advised him to run from the "opportunity"! He took my advice, but it took me ages to get him to understand why I was advising him not to double his money, God love him.

I did notice, on the way out, a queue of elderly gentlemen waiting to see this same young lady. The cynic in me still wonders if that skirt wasn't a deliberate distraction.
Even if it wasn't, the whole thing still left a very sour taste in my mouth.

This is why I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to homeowners who overextended themselves. (It's why I also give the benefit of the doubt to Sean Quinn.)
That sales pitch was designed to make it sound as if doubling the investment in 5 years was guaranteed. Questions were fended off, and it took quite some time to get the facts of the matter. And the facts of the matter were that people who could reasonably be expected to require access to their savings were being given unsolicited advice, to invest, for 5 years, in high risk ventures, with no access to their funds, and no real hope of retaining their money. It was a very professional rip-off, imho, and those pensioners were sitting ducks!
And it made me sick!

Dartz wrote: »

It's not censorship.

It's a request and arguably it may be a good sign. If the DPP is asking them to stop posting the tapes then the DPP is interesting in doing something with them and really would rather not see one of these slimey ****s get off on a technicality.

Arguably, there is a risk of biasing any prosecution irretrievably.

I'd rather not see any prosecution being biased. Having said that, it appears that there is no prosecution pending against Bowe, if the recordings published haven't affected cases pending?:mad:

K-9 wrote: »

We all know the Indo is a FF mouth piece.

I'm inclined to think that the Indo reflects the views of it's owners - and business political allegiance tends to necessarily change with changes of Government.

clairefontaine wrote: »

They can get Drumm on failure to disclose and have him extradited.

If they choose not to, that will tell you everything.

I'm not being argumentative, I genuinely hope you're right - but, are you sure?

Quandary · 29-06-2013 09:44AM

The depth of the corruption is just staggering.

If you are in the right circles, have enough money and are aligned with the most influential political parties then it seems you are truly untouchable.

Its utterly disgusting.

I know it has been said before but this country cannot be left to run itself.

Wurzelbert · 29-06-2013 10:38AM

bumper234 wrote: »

So who should organize it? See this is the problem we have here no matter who organizes it there will be people like you saying "oh such and such is organizing/gonna be there so i am not going cos i focking hate them blah blah blah" Tell us who should set this up tell us how it should be done. You may dislike Higgins and the socialists but unlike you at least they are doing something to bring attention to this farce.

you surely have a point there…still i will not support politically organised socialism out of principle. would you go if a protest was organised by some other extremist organisation you detest, say by some nazis or so?

Dostoevsky · 29-06-2013 11:11AM

Denis O'Brien is a business man, he runs real businesses all over the world. He was not some jumped up little prick from Carlow or Clare who bought half of Ballsbridge or Edenderry or some other random place and then couldn't pay back a red cent. Property developers are a parasite in an economy, they create no employment directly and just try to make a quick buck by screwing everybody in the way.

Incredible. Denis O'Brien not a parasite of this society? Denis O'Brien was not out to create a quick buck? Hello? I can't think of a greater one - except, perhaps, his fellow tax-dodging oligarch Anthony O'Reilly - than O'Brien who corruptly was gifted a telephone license worth hundreds of millions from the resources of this state - and then took the kitchen out of his €10 million home on Raglan Road, successfully claimed tax dodger/exile status and fúcked off to Portugal without paying a red cent in income tax back to our state. He is now competing with that other arrant treacherous tax dodging bastard, O'Reilly, to control Irish democracy via his media interests. Both of these egomaniacs are not only parasites; they are people who threaten the very democracy we have. To see both of their numerous sycophants lined up across various media outlets fighting their war is chilling. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Oh, and rather than being a "jumped-up little prick from Carlow or Clare" - O'Brien is one from Cork. For all the giving out (often justified) people do about Michael O'Leary, he does pay his taxes to this state. After fleecing the Irish taxpayer, O'Brien clearly has no sense of loyalty to Irish society. He deserves as much contempt/disrespect from taxpaying Irish citizens as any other tax-dodging oligarch does, perhaps even more because the foundation of O'Brien's wealth is a massive phone contract gifted to him by the Irish state.

Dostoevsky · 29-06-2013 11:16AM

Excellent interview with Donal O'Donovan (formerly of the IMF) on RTÉ Radio 1 in the past hour. He recommended the play Guaranteed by Colin Murphy which he says paints an amazingly accurate portrayal of what happened on the night of the bank guarantee.

I never heard of it so I googled and it's on in Garter Lane Arts Theatre in Waterford tonight and in the Civic Theatre in Tallaght on Monday and Tuesday. After his plug I'd say it'll be sold out very quickly.

Guaranteed

RiverOfLove · 29-06-2013 11:25AM

On twitter on breaking news, it says that Drumm discusses or talk about the government refusing to shut down Anglo despite warnings from advisors.

Boombastic wrote: »

This is a new tape? clip 12 a at the bottom of the page
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/theyve-signed-our-death-warrant-says-drumm-in-latest-anglo-tape-29381746.html

I didn't listen to the tape you linked. Would that tape 12 consist of what I read on twitter?

Going by the above posts this could be the last anglo tape that they will allow us to listen to. And a very clever pick too because it shows that the government were well in on anglo just in case we didn't know or there was any doubt or confusion on the governments role.

steddyeddy · 29-06-2013 11:38AM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

you surely have a point there…still i will not support politically organised socialism out of principle. would you go if a protest was organised by some other extremist organisation you detest, say by some nazis or so?

Define socialism?

AnOrdinaryJoe · 29-06-2013 11:47AM

Extract from latest Anglo Irish tapes (‘RBS tyring to f**k us over’)

Drumm's colleague, Mr Bowe, head of treasury, believes Royal Bank of Scotland is trying to "f**k us over."
"I spoke to them again and said: 'Look, if you're going to f**k us over, you need to tell us very clearly, because that's what'll happen if you are not careful'," he said.

I find this hard to believe....... everybody knows the biggest UK bail out basket case ever, Royal Bank of Scotland, and owner of our own IT system whizz kids Ulster Bank, wouldn’t f**k anybody over.

But if in the case above they were, as an Anglo Irish ‘executive’ suggests, going to f**k Anglo Irish over, I wonder what was the nature of any pre RBS f**kover relationship between Anglo Irish and RBS

tara73 · 29-06-2013 11:49AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Define socialism?

or at least what's so bad or wrong with these people, these so called socialists?

steddyeddy · 29-06-2013 11:53AM

tara73 wrote: »

or at least what's so bad or wrong with these people, these so called socialists?

Or failing that why these marching with these people is worse than what's been revealed about Anglo.

AnOrdinaryJoe · 29-06-2013 11:57AM

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

Extract from latest Anglo Irish tapes (‘RBS tyring to f**k us over’)

Drumm's colleague, Mr Bowe, head of treasury, believes Royal Bank of Scotland is trying to "f**k us over."
"I spoke to them again and said: 'Look, if you're going to f**k us over, you need to tell us very clearly, because that's what'll happen if you are not careful'," he said.

I find this hard to believe....... everybody knows the biggest UK bail out basket case ever, Royal Bank of Scotland, and owner of our own IT system whizz kids Ulster Bank, wouldn’t f**k anybody over.

But if in the case above they were, as an Anglo Irish ‘executive’ suggests, going to f**k Anglo Irish over, I wonder what was the nature of any pre RBS f**kover relationship between Anglo Irish and RBS

from: Irish Times

Taoiseach Enda Kenny yesterday called on people who knew what lay behind the Anglo Irish Bank debacle to “stand by the Republic” and come forward with any information that could be of use to the inquiry.

I wonder if anyone from RBS, from pre RBS f**kover time, will be called on to tell what they knew or what sort of arrangement RBS might have been in with Anglo Irish...... or if called, if they would actually respond or as banks in general appear to do as second nature, lie or keep stum (usually anything but 'the truth'..... something which doesn't seem to count for much in the stinking cesspit of banking culture).

Wurzelbert · 29-06-2013 12:04PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Define socialism?

trying to define socialism would surely go beyond the scope of this thread…

Wurzelbert · 29-06-2013 12:06PM

Chinasea wrote: »

But I remember this: "Reprimand for German envoy over his 'coarse' Irish speech" in 2007, and the hysteria, consternation, mass sterotyping of Germans and denial/outrage it caused here [...]

remember that too and the heated discussions afterwards…

29-06-2013 01:09PM

any new news haven't check since Thursday

doubledown · 29-06-2013 01:20PM

New Drumm clip just posted on Independent.ie

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo/david-drumm-launched-astonishing-tirade-against-female-financial-official-29381752.html

The Anglo Irish Tapes

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