The Anglo Irish Tapes

Boombastic · 28-06-2013 09:28PM

If they're being stopped they need to do it wikileaks style and release everything at once

bumper234 · 28-06-2013 09:32PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

if it wasn’t organised by the ****ing socialists i might consider going…

So who should organize it? See this is the problem we have here no matter who organizes it there will be people like you saying "oh such and such is organizing/gonna be there so i am not going cos i focking hate them blah blah blah" Tell us who should set this up tell us how it should be done. You may dislike Higgins and the socialists but unlike you at least they are doing something to bring attention to this farce.

RiverOfLove · 28-06-2013 09:33PM

numbnutz wrote: »

I completely agrree with you but I also think that the risk management dept in the Indo have been reminded of the fact that they are in possesion of material from an ongoing investigation, if one exists by the Gardai, and this will surely prejudice any outcome of any proceedings against Anglo execs.Also the narrative from some in RTE, whether they are playing devils advocate
or not,seems to be softening the mood for the acceptance of nothing ever coming of this.

As it is though it looks as if nothing is going to come of a garda investigation because apprantly we don't even have the laws to prosecute them.

AnOrdinaryJoe · 28-06-2013 09:33PM

charlemont wrote: »

Sick stuff, I hope its not true but I'm inclined to believe you..It seems to have gone very quiet too soon..Fúck this wretched state, How can any of us trust the authorities to tell us the truth, We're only the shít on their shoes..:mad:

I'd say Tayto Lover hit the nail on the head....... it has 'cover up' written all over it.

The truth is the media are only 'impartial' when they're allowed to be.

If 'others' wish to, others will control the agenda, etc..... it might be dressed up as 'impartial'....... is it fcuk !

The same self serving 'elitist' cronyist arsehloes will have their mucky fingers all over this.

...... and 'they' will do what they will feed to the country as something, perhaps 'the best' for the country.

Except what will be happening is that it will be what's best for those same 'elitist' cronyist arsehloes regardless of how they dress it up.

It will unfortunately be more of the same....... structured probably to prevent some from being held accountable, possibly even being charged with some sort of criminal offence.

That boys and girls is how it works in our 'free' and 'democratic' society.

RiverOfLove · 28-06-2013 09:35PM

Boombastic wrote: »

If they're being stopped they need to do it wikileaks style and release everything at once

So who's going to do it wikileaks style?

I would love to see transcripts of emails between them.

Busted Flat. · 28-06-2013 09:37PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The other day someone on the radio speculated that a disgruntles Garda released the tapes to Williams as his investigations were being thwarted from on high.
That makes sense and the fact that no more tapes were released would indicate that there is pressure on the Indo too.

Too many high profile people involved methinks.

Ah $hit and people thought that PW had got a real story from investigated journalism. That blows it for the next book. Is the source going too seek asylum in some country that has no extradition with the Republic of Eire.

numbnutz · 28-06-2013 09:38PM

RiverOfLove wrote: »

As it is though it looks as if nothing is going to come of a garda investigation becase apprantly we don't even have the laws to prosecute them.

Ah FFS!!Why does that not surprise me:eek:...but i think they already knew that when all this kicked off...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfMwWLnpgGw

AnOrdinaryJoe · 28-06-2013 09:40PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Oh you're not serious? In Brazil people of all political persuasions, class and ages are protesting.

It will only be the socialists protesting at this stage because everyone else seems to make excuse after excuse.

You're probably right Steddy Eddy...... and fair play to the SWP and anyone else who actually organises and protests.

But this really is serious stuff which EVERYBODY, regardless of background, etc, needs to be stand up to.

Some may say 'crime is crime, is crime'...... but in Ireland, and to a degree in the UK also, it would appear that a crime is only a crime if you're one of the little people, one of the 'ordinary plebs', such crime to include the likes of not paying (not being able to afford) your tv licence, or other such minor misdemeanours.

...........whereas if you rob a nation or any 'misdemeanour' of such magnitude....... fcuk all happens....... you simply walk of into the sunset with everybody else' money and have a lovely time.

Reality unfortunately...... and totally wrong.

DeLaTroY · 28-06-2013 09:43PM

AnOrdinaryJoe · 28-06-2013 09:50PM

DeLaTroY wrote: »

at 7.18 'they will be asking Allied (AIB) or Bank (Bank of Ireland) to get involved'

I can't help but wonder, in the bigger scheme of things, just how 'involved' both AIB and BOI are...............

AnOrdinaryJoe · 28-06-2013 09:52PM

Unbelievable stuff !

at 7.18 'they will be asking Allied (AIB) or Bank (Bank of Ireland) to get involved'

I can't help but wonder, in the bigger scheme of things, just how 'involved' both AIB and BOI are...............

Busted Flat. · 28-06-2013 10:00PM

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff !

at 7.18 'they will be asking Allied (AIB) or Bank (Bank of Ireland) to get involved'

I can't help but wonder, in the bigger scheme of things, just how 'involved' both AIB and BOI are...............

Try hitting your head against a stone wall, you will get an answer there.

K-9 · 28-06-2013 10:13PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The other day someone on the radio speculated that a disgruntled Garda released the tapes to Williams as his investigations were being thwarted from on high.
That makes sense and the fact that no more tapes were released would indicate that there is pressure on the Indo too.

Too many high profile people involved methinks.

The other day an actual journalist from the Indo said on the VB show that it was nothing to with the slow pace of the investigations, but he's probably wrong and in on it too, and some guy on the radio knows it all.

It sounds to me that that the tapes were leaked because the investigation has no more use for them, the Seanie Fitz case is ongoing, the Gardai have their own investigation going and the presume the Director of Corporate Enforcement also has one on the Quinn stuff, and other stuff too I'm sure. The reckless thing to do would have been leak these ages ago and feck up the investigation.

Also the Indo is in the business of selling papers, Staurday and Sunday are the days to maximise circulation, I'd say they'll double their sales for the Sindo, even I might buy it.

Noreen1 wrote: »

Oh, I grasp what Quinn did, alright.
He cost us 2.x Billion - for which he has apologised, by the way.

Contrast that with colluding to defraud Joe Public of multiples of that - 29 Billion, if memory serves me right - and laughing while doing so, and you might begin to grasp my point.

But sure that was just jumped up ignorant bankers indulging in a bit of male bravado. Let's all forget that the jumped up bankers had University degrees (for all their ignorance!) - while Sean Quinn left school at the age of 15.

Sean Quinn is not in the same league as these guys - not by a long shot!

There are 3 investigations ongoing as far as I know, by the way it was very nice of him to apologise, lovely chap. I seem to remember him saying he would pay everything back at the start of the whole fiasco, so forgive me if I don't take his word too highly with all the goings on in Russia, Ukraine and Central America.

Tbh, if Anglo was still privately owned I wouldn't worry too much about Quinn, its when it is state owned that I do worry a lot about it.

I don't really see what degrees has got to with it, plenty of very smart people are successful in life, not just financially, with limited education.

Edit: On the Conspiracy thing, I though the Indo was a FF mouth piece!

RiverOfLove · 28-06-2013 10:16PM

If say for example something does come from a garda investigation and there's something there on this scummy elite, and if there are cases for prosecution, anyone going down will be spinning the line of not getting a fair trial regardless. They'll pick some sort of an excuse out from their arse just like how they plucked figures out from there arses.

And any garda investigation is also a very big farce. Note how whenever there was an arrest in relation to this muck, it was usually done on a news day where our government were due to hand over more billions to bondholders to take the light off and be seen to be doing something.

28-06-2013 10:17PM

Boombastic wrote: »

If they're being stopped they need to do it wikileaks style and release everything at once

Exactly, look what happened in Iceland when Wikileaks released information on a rouge bank which in turn approached the courts to stop this information from being aired, yet the state broadcaster stated that the information was available on the wikileaks web page, and then the people who accessed this information took to the streets and now look at Iceland.

The reason a lot of politicians are in power in this country is because they have dirt on others in their profession, they talk about transparency, the only transparency these cowboys know is the transparent glass in the newly closed sweet shop in the Dáil.

I hope someone who has the tapes, release them to someone like Wikileaks, the people need to know, and it would really help us as a nation, not only for the sh!t that happened with the banks, but with the failed political system we have.

We need to clear up this mess, and politicians will not do this, they have their best intentions, not ours.....

RiverOfLove · 28-06-2013 10:24PM

NoDrama wrote: »

Exactly, look what happened in Iceland when Wikileaks released information on a rouge bank which in turn approached the courts to stop this information from being aired, yet the state broadcaster stated that the information was available on the wikileaks web page, and then the people who accessed this information took to the streets and now look at Iceland.

The reason a lot of politicians are in power in this country is because they have dirt on others in their profession, they talk about transparency, the only transparency these cowboys know is the transparent glass in the newly closed sweet shop in the Dáil.

I hope someone who has the tapes, release them to someone like Wikileaks, the people need to know, and it would really help us as a nation, not only for the sh!t that happened with the banks, but with the failed political system we have.

We need to clear up this mess, and politicians will not do this, they have their best intentions, not ours.....

Well said.

AnOrdinaryJoe · 28-06-2013 11:16PM

I wonder now if we should be going around all of the banks, lining up all of the execs....... and checking the sizes of their arses.

Maybe that's how we might get to the bottom of this......

Possibly the bigger the arse, the more the owner of the arse is hiding !

I bet this is a theory the gardai is working on.

Are there any big arses at AIB and BOI ?

Noreen1 · 28-06-2013 11:18PM

K-9 wrote: »

There are 3 investigations ongoing as far as I know, by the way it was very nice of him to apologise, lovely chap. I seem to remember him saying he would pay everything back at the start of the whole fiasco, so forgive me if I don't take his word too highly with all the goings on in Russia, Ukraine and Central America.

Tbh, if Anglo was still privately owned I wouldn't worry too much about Quinn, its when it is state owned that I do worry a lot about it.

I don't really see what degrees has got to with it, plenty of very smart people are successful in life, not just financially, with limited education.

Edit: On the Conspiracy thing, I though the Indo was a FF mouth piece!

I'm aware that there are three investigations ongoing.

Frankly, I hope there will be convictions - but, like all the costly enquiries and tribunals, I don't expect justice from these investigations - justice being a very lengthy jail term for those responsible for ruining the finances of the Country.

By "those responsible" I mean bankers, (including anyone in the central bank) financial regulators office, Dept. of Finance, and any Politicians who were guilty of either negligence/failing to apply due diligence, conspiracy to defraud, or fraud, withholding information about a crime, failing to adhere to financial regulations - and anything else illegal that various individuals in these professions may be guilty of.

I just don't believe that all those responsible, to whatever degree, will be prosecuted, much less convicted - and it is absolutely infuriating!:mad:

It's infuriating, because there is absolutely nothing the average citizen can do about it!!

The electorate gave FG/Labour a mandate for change - and got no change!
There has been no change in the "system".
A bit of a drop in TDs salaries - easily recouped with expenses, I might add.
Talk of abolishing the Seanad, at a time when politicians are probably less trusted than at any time in history - and a promise of another enquiry - Woo-hoo!
In short, they say they're doing something - but nothing changes.:mad:

Meanwhile, Drumm is living it up in the States, Fingleton gets "invited" for questioning, various bankrupt developers are living a lifestyle those who will have their homes repossessed most certainly wont be allowed, officials who oversaw this debacle swanned off with ridiculous pensions and golden handshakes - and Sean Quinn is still being equated with these guys!

Even if Sean Quinn stood up in the morning, and announced that he coldly masterminded a plan to extract 2+ Billion from the Irish public - he'd still be a minnow in a pool of sharks - because the actions of the Bankers ensured the public are on the hook for the 60 odd billion already pumped into the banks, plus any further money required for mortgage defaults if the banks require a further injection before the European rescue fund is finalised - and that's before you take account of losses to individuals through unemployment, reduction in hospital services, loss of business, or inability to expand because of lack of credit - etc, etc, - all of which the individuals concerned have no redress for.

In financial terms alone, the losses are incalculable, and that's before you begin to try to calculate the social/human misery caused!

Two billion is a lot of money - but it's very manageable compared to what we have been saddled with - by "ignorant buffoons indulging in a bit of male bravado!:rolleyes:
I don't think that was bravado - I think it was pure, calculated evil!!:mad:

AnOrdinaryJoe · 28-06-2013 11:28PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoDrama

The reason a lot of politicians are in power in this country is because they have dirt on others in their profession, they talk about transparency, the only transparency these cowboys know is the transparent glass in the newly closed sweet shop in the Dáil.

Again, another 'hit the nail on the head'

Why does anyone think a lot of these gobshoites manage to resign or retire or feck off with such great i.e. massive retirement packages....... surely it can't all be for the sterling jobs they did ?

And even when caught out poring over hand shandy material when sitting at his 'do as I say, not as I do' CEO desk, one can simply resign and walk off with a friggin' fortune....... as one ex CEO did at BOI.

Did he know stuff which guaranteed him a luvrly big fat pension ?

Did the cleaners have to work extra hard when making the office fit for the next CEO ?

These are the sort of burning issues about which the country has a right to get answers.

K-9 · 28-06-2013 11:46PM

Noreen1 wrote: »

I'm aware that there are three investigations ongoing.

Frankly, I hope there will be convictions - but, like all the costly enquiries and tribunals, I don't expect justice from these investigations - justice being a very lengthy jail term for those responsible for ruining the finances of the Country.

By "those responsible" I mean bankers, (including anyone in the central bank) financial regulators office, Dept. of Finance, and any Politicians who were guilty of either negligence/failing to apply due diligence, conspiracy to defraud, or fraud, withholding information about a crime, failing to adhere to financial regulations - and anything else illegal that various individuals in these professions may be guilty of.

I just don't believe that all those responsible, to whatever degree, will be prosecuted, much less convicted - and it is absolutely infuriating!:mad:

It's infuriating, because there is absolutely nothing the average citizen can do about it!!

The electorate gave FG/Labour a mandate for change - and got no change!
There has been no change in the "system".
A bit of a drop in TDs salaries - easily recouped with expenses, I might add.
Talk of abolishing the Seanad, at a time when politicians are probably less trusted than at any time in history - and a promise of another enquiry - Woo-hoo!
In short, they say they're doing something - but nothing changes.:mad:

Meanwhile, Drumm is living it up in the States, Fingleton gets "invited" for questioning, various bankrupt developers are living a lifestyle those who will have their homes repossessed most certainly wont be allowed, officials who oversaw this debacle swanned off with ridiculous pensions and golden handshakes - and Sean Quinn is still being equated with these guys!

Even if Sean Quinn stood up in the morning, and announced that he coldly masterminded a plan to extract 2+ Billion from the Irish public - he'd still be a minnow in a pool of sharks - because the actions of the Bankers ensured the public are on the hook for the 60 odd billion already pumped into the banks, plus any further money required for mortgage defaults if the banks require a further injection before the European rescue fund is finalised - and that's before you take account of losses to individuals through unemployment, reduction in hospital services, loss of business, or inability to expand because of lack of credit - etc, etc, - all of which the individuals concerned have no redress for.

In financial terms alone, the losses are incalculable, and that's before you begin to try to calculate the social/human misery caused!

Two billion is a lot of money - but it's very manageable compared to what we have been saddled with - by "ignorant buffoons indulging in a bit of male bravado!:rolleyes:
I don't think that was bravado - I think it was pure, calculated evil!!:mad:

Ok, I think we are getting bogged down in tit for tat style posting.

I'll leave Quinn aside, I think we've disagreed on Quinn threads at the time, and we aren't going to agree here, plus it is a bit off topic. My interest is just seeing the state bank get one of its biggest assets under control. If he'd ran his businesses correctly, (and not shown such a disregard for regulators, the same regulators we are giving out about now) just like Anglo, we wouldn't be discussing it.

Just on the bankers thing and the bravado comment, I wish we still had prudent banks like we had for most of our history, even in the 80's it was hard to get a mortgage even if we had the PMPA fiasco. Even if that was a stupid buy, and they didn't do their proper due diligence, at least banks acted prudently most of the time.

I want to see these guys punished as much as anybody else. My concern is that people see through how banking has changed, really if anybody learns anything from this mess is that banks do not have your interest at heart, and I've no doubt if the crash hadn't happened, people would still be duped, and the bubble would still be going on.

I remember Prime Time doing an investigation on banks dealing with old people a couple of years ago, and getting them to invest in products, the advantage they took of innocent, decent, naive people concern me far more than the property crash.

steddyeddy · 29-06-2013 12:08AM

More fantastic news from the Washington Post. If recent events can teach us anything it's that we don't have to take anyone's word on what we should or shouldn't do to fix the economy. We certainly will have a hard time accepting that we have to take cuts in the future for the well being of our economy. We are all suffering because of a successful scam and we need to remember that.

DUBLIN — Figures show Ireland has fallen back into recession, dealing a blow to those who have cited the country as an example of how austerity can work. Thursday’s report from Ireland’s Central Statistics Office showed the country’s annual gross domestic product fell 0.6 percent in the first three months of the year from the previous quarter.

GDP figures for the second half of 2012 were also revised downwards to show a 1 percent quarterly fall in the third quarter and a 0.2 percent drop in the fourth. The figures put Ireland back in recession — officially defined as two straight quarters of negative growth.
Ireland was the second euro country, after Greece, to be bailed out following a banking crisis. It has been cutting its budget aggressively for years.
Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

K-9 · 29-06-2013 12:21AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

More fantastic news from the Washington Post. If recent events can teach us anything it's that we don't have to take anyone's word on what we should or shouldn't do to fix the economy. We certainly will have a hard time accepting that we have to take cuts in the future for the well being of our economy. We are all suffering because of a successful scam and we need to remember that.

I'm a big skeptic about the export led recovery, mainly because exports don't create the amount of knock on jobs as they did 10/20 years ago.

I remember reading a piece about exports about a year ago, and the big concern was that a lot of the patents for big pharma drugs would run out this year, so a cheaper alternative, manufactured elsewhere would take over the market, and that would have a big impact on the export led recovery. India is a big player there IIRC.

Pharma exports are down 5% or so, and they are a big player in our export figures.

skimpydoo · 29-06-2013 12:26AM

Our Minister for Justice has the largest property portfolio in the Dail. Was he using a certain bank to fund this portfolio?.

Dostoevsky · 29-06-2013 12:39AM

I see in 1529 posts in this thread, the word "auditors" has been mentioned a mere 11 times.

Why, why, why is Ernest & Young, to take one example of many, receiving millions of euro per year from this state to audit the accounts of state bodies? Why?

Do the people that matter in this state not even know that that company signed off on the fraudulent accounts of Anglo Irish Bank, among others?

No prosecutions. No charges. And the guys at the top of E&Y/KPMG etc are completely untouched. A token scapegoat might emerge down the road, and he will be very well rewarded for fulfilling that role.

charlemont · 29-06-2013 12:40AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/independent-limits-coverage-of-anglo-tapes-following-contact-from-dpp-1.1447110

The DPP has put an end to it for now. Basically its being censored..:(

AnOrdinaryJoe · 29-06-2013 01:05AM

charlemont wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/independent-limits-coverage-of-anglo-tapes-following-contact-from-dpp-1.1447110

The DPP has put an end to it for now. Basically its being censored..:(

Spokespeople for the DPP and the Irish Independent declined to comment.

Unbe****ingbelievable....... see, I mentioned in an earlier post about no such thing as an impartial media.

Freedom of speech and all that.... great concept...... pity it doesn't actually exist..... or not in these parts at any rate.

Unless of course you happen to be a bank CEO 'with a hide like a rhino'...... then you can say whatever the fcuk you like, even if it is in the style of an awkward b'stard....... you can even say, or was it not say, what you like in front of the highest office (allegedly) in the land...... now that's proper freedom of speech in action.

The thing is..... some of these people think that we ordinary plebs can't work out what's actually going on.

Message to the government/the state and to the banksters: WE DO !

AnOrdinaryJoe · 29-06-2013 01:07AM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I see in 1529 posts in this thread, the word "auditors" has been mentioned a mere 11 times.

Why, why, why is Ernest & Young, to take one example of many, receiving millions of euro per year from this state to audit the accounts of state bodies? Why?

Do the people that matter in this state not even know that that company signed off on the fraudulent accounts of Anglo Irish Bank, among others?

No prosecutions. No charges. And the guys at the top of E&Y/KPMG etc are completely untouched. A token scapegoat might emerge down the road, and he will be very well rewarded for fulfilling that role.

It's the same in the UK...... same named auditors....... same **** !

Dartz · 29-06-2013 01:48AM

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

Spokespeople for the DPP and the Irish Independent declined to comment.

Unbe****ingbelievable....... see, I mentioned in an earlier post about no such thing as an impartial media.

Freedom of speech and all that.... great concept...... pity it doesn't actually exist..... or not in these parts at any rate.

Unless of course you happen to be a bank CEO 'with a hide like a rhino'...... then you can say whatever the fcuk you like, even if it is in the style of an awkward b'stard....... you can even say, or was it not say, what you like in front of the highest office (allegedly) in the land...... now that's proper freedom of speech in action.

The thing is..... some of these people think that we ordinary plebs can't work out what's actually going on.

Message to the government/the state and to the banksters: WE DO !

It's not censorship.

It's a request and arguably it may be a good sign. If the DPP is asking them to stop posting the tapes then the DPP is interesting in doing something with them and really would rather not see one of these slimey ****s get off on a technicality.

Arguably, there is a risk of biasing any prosecution irretrievably.

skimpydoo · 29-06-2013 01:57AM

Dartz wrote: »

It's not censorship.

It's a request and arguably it may be a good sign. If the DPP is asking them to stop posting the tapes then the DPP is interesting in doing something with them and really would rather not see one of these slimey ****s get off on a technicality.

Arguably, there is a risk of biasing any prosecution irretrievably.

What you say maybe the case but if no prosecutions are forthcoming it will be seen as censorship.

kraggy · 29-06-2013 02:00AM

Dartz wrote: »

It's not censorship.

It's a request and arguably it may be a good sign. If the DPP is asking them to stop posting the tapes then the DPP is interesting in doing something with them and really would rather not see one of these slimey ****s get off on a technicality.

Arguably, there is a risk of biasing any prosecution irretrievably.

This. You saved me a long post

The Anglo Irish Tapes

Comments