The Anglo Irish Tapes

RiverOfLove

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Didn't you know? If you take the bigger picture into account on these discussions, you're automatically a FG supporter.

Raging and sickened as I am by what's being said on those tapes, the fact virtually nobody was complaining during the "boom" can't be ignored.

One person did speak up and try to warn the government about what was happening. That persom was Morgan Kelly, an econmist or a lecturer. If you read his piece from early 2011 - Irish Eyes Are Crying in Vainity Fair, you will read that something didn't sit well with him about Irelands extraiorinate econmic luck and begain to look into things and discovered that what we were going through was a financial/building/property boom and one occured I think in Finland in the early 90s and we were going through something similiar.

That property bubble began in 97 or 98, I'm guessing.

He spoke up in 2006, I think. It took someone with economy studies under his belt 8 years to pick up on what was happening.

RiverOfLove

How do you expect ordinary people on the street to pick up on what was happening under our noses when it took someone with a little knowledge 8 years.

How do you expect people to complain about a boom that they don't know about?
When countries go through booms, people don't see it for what it was until it's well over and hindsight comes into play.
Our government dressed things up as an extraidinate lucky marvelous money tiger never seen before.
People are only responsible for their own finances.

I think, from that piece before Morgan Kelly he was writing into papers.

He was told to commit suicide from our leader at the time.

Mardy Bum

RiverOfLove wrote: »

How do you expect ordinary people on the street people on the street to pick up on what was happening under our noses when it took someone with a little knowledge 8 years.

I think, from that piece before Morgan Kelly he was writing into papers.

He was told to commit suicide from our leader at the time.

I think that comment was aimed at an ESRI report. So he aimed it at the ESRI as a whole. I don't think Kelly was working on the report. I think he does his own research from UCD.

The more I listen to the tapes especially the Deutschland Uber allies, they sound like the gang from Love/Hate in various parts.

Boombastic

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

The staff. Down to junior people / grads / clerical staff. I know people that were there.

It's not their fault. If a party is laid on, they're going to go. It's the management that should never have laid one on in the first place

It is.


Have you ever read animal farm? 2 legs good 4 legs bad. If I'm a hit man for the mafia enjoying the spoils, I can't distance myself when the **** hits the fan.

geeksauce

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I'd only completed my Leaving cert the year of the bank guarantee

Unlucky

geeksauce

Tabnabs wrote: »

Your point suggests a them and us camp. But I would say it's in the wrong direction. The people are all shouldering the burden of the established finance and political sectors of the economy. No one has escaped the folly, even those who were foolish.

Its not so much a them and us camp, however there is a need to differentiate between those that bought into the celtic tiger and those that didnt when a poster is on here claiming everyone bought into it.

K-9

Chinasea wrote: »

Yea yea, so many up in arms now that we have been shamed by these morons, but so many times on AH and other forums, every-time without fail German people or German was mentioned there were extremely derogatory remarks cheaply thrown in as if the norm. These boy'oos clearly felt that deluded ignorance. Irish arrogance.

was using phone, was unable to edit

Get your point now.

Seems odd all right, but it isn't Irish arrogance. A few comments by fools on the net doesn't transfer to a national trait!

donegal_road

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I think that comment was aimed at an ESRI report. So he aimed it at the ESRI as a whole. I don't think Kelly was working on the report. I think he does his own research from UCD.

The more I listen to the tapes especially the Deutschland Uber allies, they sound like the gang from Love/Hate in various parts.

I was just thinking the same thing. These phone conversations may as well be about drugs transactions by the language and the tone. I suppose for some people money is a vice!

Who is going to want to do business with Ireland now?

Boombastic

K-9 wrote: »

Get your point now.

Seems odd all right, but it isn't Irish arrogance. A few comments by fools on the net doesn't transfer to a national trait!

Am I right saying the bondholders were mostly american?

donal7

There are a load of dodgy looking individuals protesting outside St Luke's this lunchtime - the former constituency office of Bertie Ahern. I wonder what all that is about?!!!...

SEPT 23 1989

donegal_road wrote: »

I was just thinking the same thing. These phone conversations may as well be about drugs transactions by the language and the tone. I suppose for some people money is a vice!

Who is going to want to do business with Ireland now?

swap the south dublin accents with inner city ones and swap the word money for gear

listermint

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Didn't you know? If you take the bigger picture into account on these discussions, you're automatically a FG supporter.

Raging and sickened as I am by what's being said on those tapes, the fact virtually nobody was complaining during the "boom" can't be ignored.

Nobody was complaining ?


Im sure you'll find anyone trying to buy a house in the greater dublin area were complaining. Who was driving this madness ? the people ? or developers ? Il tell you who.. Developers Speculators.

When you have farmers selling land in Limerick at 3 Million 6 years ago and buying it back today at 215,000 You can see where the money went to. And then you have idiot saying fair play him, but at the same time they cant get a bed in a hospital. Theres where your money went to....

geeksauce

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I know that it's tiresome when people say that we all went mad - but it's true that very large numbers of people lost the run of themselves, so the responsibility for getting things wrong can not be limited to people such as bankers, regulators, developers, administrators, and politicians. Joe Public was in the mix also.

It derails general discussion when people get indignant and say "I never went mad". Maybe you didn't, but there was a general madness about, and the odds are that many of the people around you did get involved in the craze.

Yes many people did go mad, they did borrow way more than they could afford to pay back and built and bought houses way above what they needed just because it was the "in" thing to do. I am fully aware that it is these people that are just as responsible for the mess the country is in as anyone else.

However, there are also many people that didnt lose the run of themselves that were intelligent enough to realise that borrowing more than they could afford to build a massive house they dont need was a fools game.

The lads on those tapes are now the ones in the public spotlight and rightly so and they should be jailed, their assets should be stripped and sold, bank accounts emptied every possession they have taken from them and used to pay back some of what they fraudently took from the taxpayesr in the name of Anglo.

bumper234

donal7 wrote: »

There are a load of dodgy looking individuals protesting outside St Luke's this lunchtime - the former constituency office of Bertie Ahern. I wonder what all that is about?!!!...

What makes them "DODGY" looking? Are they wearing expensive suits? Being driven around in chauffeur driven cars? Sipping from bottles of Moet while nibbling on fois gras? If any of the above then yes they are politicians and bankers and should be shot on sight if not then they are ordinary people protesting.

edit: I do not condone the shooting on sight of bankers or politicians.

I do really:D

donal7

bumper234 wrote: »

What makes them "DODGY" looking? Are they wearing expensive suits? Being driven around in chauffeur driven cars? Sipping from bottles of Moet while nibbling on fois gras? If any of the above then yes they are politicians and bankers and should be shot on sight if not then they are ordinary people protesting.

edit: I do not condone the shooting on sight of bankers or politicians.

I do really:D

He he....no expensive suits, chauffeur driven cars or bottles of Moet. Quite the opposite in fact

K-9

Boombastic wrote: »

Am I right saying the bondholders were mostly american?

The US and UK had/has a big share in our banking system yep, contrary to the popular myth about Germany.

AnOrdinaryJoe

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

swap the south dublin accents with inner city ones and swap the word money for gear

Maybe Mexican Drug Cartels with the odd banker.........

RiverOfLove

I just checked out twitter and facebook.

There will be a protest tomorrow in Dublin at 1pm. I don't know where it's starting at. Organised by SWP (socialist workers party, I think).

Don't know what their aim is but my guess is to call on the government for action to be taken for justice because the tapes that came out this week clearly indiciate fraud.

Just putting this info out there for anyone who might be interested.

Wurzelbert

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I know that it's tiresome when people say that we all went mad - but it's true that very large numbers of people lost the run of themselves, so the responsibility for getting things wrong can not be limited to people such as bankers, regulators, developers, administrators, and politicians. Joe Public was in the mix also.

It derails general discussion when people get indignant and say "I never went mad". Maybe you didn't, but there was a general madness about, and the odds are that many of the people around you did get involved in the craze.

i moved to ireland in early 2003 (from germany) and even then the boom bubble was becoming obvious...rents for little ****holes were going through the roof and shabby old cottages suddenly "worth" millions...people were spending ridiculous sums on small low-quality houses and everybody (and the media) was only talking about money, how much their houses were now worth or like some guy on newstalk back then who claimed ireland was now the world’s wealthiest nation...that was when i finally realised there was something wrong around here...i mean, it really did not take a genius to see the whole boom thing was largely built on sand, deception and self delusion on the part of the government, the banks and a considerable part of the irish population and it was clearly bound to implode sooner or later...have to say i also knew some irish folks who did see the problem, yet it seemed the majority did not...of course all of this may have been easier to see for a non-irish observer anyway...

AnOrdinaryJoe

Originally Posted by donegal_road

I was just thinking the same thing. These phone conversations may as well be about drugs transactions by the language and the tone. I suppose for some people money is a vice!

Who is going to want to do business with Ireland now?

Maybe Mexican Drug Cartels and the odd Irish banker......

NORTH1

Boombastic wrote: »

Am I right saying the bondholders were mostly american?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YcQWqWcqLE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

JupiterKid

RiverOfLove wrote: »

I just checked out twitter and facebook.

There will be a protest tomorrow in Dublin at 1pm. I don't know where it's starting at. Organised by SWP (socialist workers party, I think).

Don't know what their aim is but my guess is to call on the government for action to be taken for justice because the tapes that came out this week clearly indiciate fraud.

Just putting this info out there for anyone who might be interested.

Tomorrow may not be the best to days to pick as any protest will clash with gay pride which is taking place the same day.

I want to see a huge protest rally over the revelations. I want to see anger transformed into action. It's the only way the powers that bhe will listed at this stage.

Wurzelbert

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

[...] I would love to get my hands on those pr1cks (especially that w4nker Drumm) and hammer the **** out of them. I would be willing to do time for it as well [...]

so? was hoping to read about you in the news...?!

Tiddlypeeps

RiverOfLove wrote: »

One person did speak up and try to warn the government about what was happening. That persom was Morgan Kelly, an econmist or a lecturer. If you read his piece from early 2011 - Irish Eyes Are Crying in Vainity Fair, you will read that something didn't sit well with him about Irelands extraiorinate econmic luck and begain to look into things and discovered that what we were going through was a financial/building/property boom and one occured I think in Finland in the early 90s and we were going through something similiar.

That property bubble began in 97 or 98, I'm guessing.

He spoke up in 2006, I think. It took someone with economy studies under his belt 8 years to pick up on what was happening.

I knew it was a bubble when I was in secondary school, probably about 2004ish. It only requires very basic logic to be able to realise that what was happening couldn't continue. I remember at the time there was this mentality floating around that people needed to buy now because soon nobody would be able too, and that just makes no sense. If nobody is buying then the price gets lowered until it sells. If a 16 year old who didn't even do secondary level economics or business studies could figure it out then it does not require 8 years studying economics to pick up on.

I'm pretty sure RTE ran a documentary a couple of years before the collapse predicting what was going to happen.

The ideas were floating around at the time it's just people were either too busy panicing about how they are going to get their hands on a house before the prices rise more or they were too busy trying to make a quick buck off the whole thing to care. I think lots of people knew it was coming but nobody realised it would happen so suddenly, they probably though they would have a lot more time to cash out.

Wurzelbert

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

[...]It only requires very basic logic to be able to realise that what was happening couldn't continue.[...].

precisely

Wurzelbert

www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo/anglo-executives-fivestar-escape-29380242.html

MrPoker

As a society we seem to be in a state of paralysis now, not knowing what to do. I thought that we would be out of this mess by now at the start of the downturn but things just seem to be getting harder with no end in sight. Seeing convictions for white collar crime would bring some hope.

Wurzelbert

MrPoker wrote: »

[...]Seeing convictions for white collar crime would bring some hope.

absolutely...and i think seeing those guys brought to justice (i.e. long jail sentences if at all possible) would go a long way in helping to restore faith in and respect for ireland and the irish (people and economy) internationally...

MrPoker

Wurzelbert wrote: »

absolutely...and i think seeing those guys brought to justice (i.e. long jail sentences if at all possible) would go a long way in helping to restore faith in and respect for ireland and the irish (people and economy) internationally...

Yeah we sure are becoming a laughing stock abroad. Tax hikes and other charges shoved upon us on an annual basis to pay for the wrecklesness of others without much fight. Even multinationals locate here from abroad and although they create many jobs they pay very little in tax in comparison to their enormous profits. You can also be sure wealth from our natural resources isn't being distributed amongst us as it should be. How can we gain the respect of others if we don't even respect ourselves?

Pee wee stairmaster

The union chiefs seem very quiet on the Anglo tapes, I can only imagine they're up to their necks in this too. Why we won't see a criminal investigation is that our so called political, business and banking elite are mired in this too.
Perhaps a nationwide lock down like they do in France will make the Ff/Fg/Lab scumbags take notice that we want a proper criminal investigation.