Does anyone feel insulted by the abortion proposals?

WinterSong wrote: »

And having to face a panel to 'prove' that you're suicidal is absolutely disgusting. I know that personally, I've just been waiting for this legislation so I can fall pregnant and pretend to be suicidal in order to procure an abortion, as have all my friends and all Irish women since the beginning of time...oh no wait, that's not true at all!

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Why describe it like that?

When you go to the doctor, and he runs tests, are you trying to prove something to him?
Is your body trying to make a point?

Suicidality, as with all mental health issues, is worked with, diagnosed etc... via talking.
Funnily enough, its very often also treated by talking.

MaxWig wrote: »

Why describe it like that?

When you go to the doctor, and he runs tests, are you trying to prove something to him?
Is your body trying to make a point?

Suicidality, as with all mental health issues, is worked with, diagnosed etc... via talking.
Funnily enough, its very often also treated by talking.

Anyone who presents to their doctor saying they feel suicidal is generally believed, they don't have to prove to their doctor they are really feeling that way.

MaxWig wrote: »

I would contest that.

Its always acted upon, as to not act would be unethical.

Were the procedure for suicidality to involve invasive surgery, I'm sure there would be a few more checks and balances.

Not sure what dealings you have had with medics re depression but I was always believed. Never did I feel I had to prove myself in order to be given access to medication or signed off work.

MaxWig wrote: »

Yes because signing someone off work is an extremely difficult and divisive decision to have to make.

You are totally missing my point. At every stage I have always been dealt with in a sensitive manner. I've never had to sit in front of someone in a formal setting, its always been a cup of tea and a chat, its been made as comfortable as possible for me. I've always been treated with respect, no one has ever asked me if I'm lying in order to get a few days off work. I've never felt anyone looked at me and wondered "what has she got to gain by claiming depression".

Basically I've always felt that medical staff were working with me and for me and not that I was on my own. Even with that I would be a total mess going into my doctor, I had to be literally forced by my husband because I was so scared despite knowing this woman personally and having been in to her before and being familiar with the clinic and the procedure.

And I'm what I like to think is a pretty tough cookie, I'm in my 30's and I'm not nervous around authority figures. Imagine what a teenage rape victim or a woman who is coming from a disadvanted background will feel. Its totally insensitive to treat any woman with a crisis pregnancy in such a way.

eviltwin wrote: »

You are totally missing my point. At every stage I have always been dealt with in a sensitive manner. I've never had to sit in front of someone in a formal setting, its always been a cup of tea and a chat, its been made as comfortable as possible for me. I've always been treated with respect, no one has ever asked me if I'm lying in order to get a few days off work. I've never felt anyone looked at me and wondered "what has she got to gain by claiming depression".

Basically I've always felt that medical staff were working with me and for me and not that I was on my own. Even with that I would be a total mess going into my doctor, I had to be literally forced by my husband because I was so scared despite knowing this woman personally and having been in to her before and being familiar with the clinic and the procedure.

And I'm what I like to think is a pretty tough cookie, I'm in my 30's and I'm not nervous around authority figures. Imagine what a teenage rape victim or a woman who is coming from a disadvanted background will feel. Its totally insensitive to treat any woman with a crisis pregnancy in such a way.

I appreciate your honesty.

But I don't think I'm missing the point at all.

If you required open-heart surgery (extreme example I know) to treat depression, you would still be treated with compassion, still get the tea no doubt, but there would be a much greater emphasis on getting the diagnoses right. You would be examined, by medics to ascertain the situation in as accurate a way as possible.

Abortion is not open-heart surgery, but nor is a day off work and a cup of tea. I completely understand that some people do not believe an abortion to be as significant an event as other, that it does not carry the same implications for some as it does for others.
But its disingenuous to suggest that accurately ascertaining whether someone is suicidal or not is some kind of Roman Catholic conspiracy

MaxWig wrote: »

I appreciate your honesty.

But I don't think I'm missing the point at all.

If you required open-heart surgery (extreme example I know) to treat depression, you would still be treated with compassion, still get the tea no doubt, but there would be a much greater emphasis on getting the diagnoses right. You would be examined, by medics to ascertain the situation in as accurate a way as possible.

Abortion is not open-heart surgery, but nor is a day off work and a cup of tea. I completely understand that some people do not believe an abortion to be as significant an event as other, that it does not carry the same implications for some as it does for others.
But its disingenuous to suggest that accurately ascertaining whether someone is suicidal or not is some kind of Roman Catholic conspiracy

I never mentioned the RCC

There is nothing wrong with making sure everyone has their arse covered, I've always been a strong believer in crisis pregnancy counselling so as to avoid situations where people make decisions they later regret. My issue is the idea of a panel. There is no reason why this whole "checks and balances" thing can't be done in as sensitive a way as possible for the woman involved.

lazygal wrote: »

Not really. Why shouldn't women be able to access a service here which is legal in other countries? Why is it ok to access abortion once you don't do it in the republic of Ireland? What difference does it make where the termination is carried out? Should it be difficult for women to access abortion, by making them spend time and money on it in travelling?

Its illegal here.

Its legal in England.

Was that a trick question?

Obliq wrote: »

Topical. Sadly and truly topical. :mad:

It is more and more like this



Which the new bill says they can face up to a 14 year sentence which will put many off accessing the after care the need be it medical or counseling.