WinterSong wrote: » And having to face a panel to 'prove' that you're suicidal is absolutely disgusting. I know that personally, I've just been waiting for this legislation so I can fall pregnant and pretend to be suicidal in order to procure an abortion, as have all my friends and all Irish women since the beginning of time...oh no wait, that's not true at all! .
MaxWig wrote: » My dentist ripped my tooth out with a pliers. That doesn't make him a ganster
MaxWig wrote: » Why describe it like that? When you go to the doctor, and he runs tests, are you trying to prove something to him? Is your body trying to make a point? Suicidality, as with all mental health issues, is worked with, diagnosed etc... via talking. Funnily enough, its very often also treated by talking.
eviltwin wrote: » Anyone who presents to their doctor saying they feel suicidal is generally believed, they don't have to prove to their doctor they are really feeling that way.
MaxWig wrote: » I would contest that. Its always acted upon, as to not act would be unethical. Were the procedure for suicidality to involve invasive surgery, I'm sure there would be a few more checks and balances.
eviltwin wrote: » Not sure what dealings you have had with medics re depression but I was always believed. Never did I feel I had to prove myself in order to be given access to medication or signed off work.
MaxWig wrote: » Yes because signing someone off work is an extremely difficult and divisive decision to have to make.
MaxWig wrote: » No doubt about it. That does not make it an inquisition. My dentist ripped my tooth out with a pliers. That doesn't make him a ganster
eviltwin wrote: » You are totally missing my point. At every stage I have always been dealt with in a sensitive manner. I've never had to sit in front of someone in a formal setting, its always been a cup of tea and a chat, its been made as comfortable as possible for me. I've always been treated with respect, no one has ever asked me if I'm lying in order to get a few days off work. I've never felt anyone looked at me and wondered "what has she got to gain by claiming depression". Basically I've always felt that medical staff were working with me and for me and not that I was on my own. Even with that I would be a total mess going into my doctor, I had to be literally forced by my husband because I was so scared despite knowing this woman personally and having been in to her before and being familiar with the clinic and the procedure. And I'm what I like to think is a pretty tough cookie, I'm in my 30's and I'm not nervous around authority figures. Imagine what a teenage rape victim or a woman who is coming from a disadvanted background will feel. Its totally insensitive to treat any woman with a crisis pregnancy in such a way.
kylith wrote: » Did he insinuate you might be lying, then make you go visit 5 of his colleagues to prove that you had a toothache first?
kylith wrote: » The life of the unborn would be of no consideration to anyone if these hypothetical lying women had the means to travel to the UK. We're looking at women who don't want to be pregnant being forced to remain pregnant, being forced to risk jail by ordering pills, or being forced to lie about being suicidal simply to avail of the same procedure that a richer woman can access abroad whenever she wants. Literally no-one that I can see gives a hand-wringing shít about those women's foetuses, otherwise they'd be campaigning to remove the right to travel.
OldNotWIse wrote: » I was speaking about the law in this jurisdiction. Hope that is ok with you. You are the only one constantly referring to these womena s "lying women". I will state again, there is nothing wrong with wanting to implement safeguards to prevent abuse of the system. Is your argument that women will avail of abortions in the UK anyway so allow them to do so here?
OldNotWIse wrote: » Is your argument that women will avail of abortions in the UK anyway so allow them to do so here?
OldNotWIse wrote: » I was speaking about the law in this jurisdiction. Hope that is ok with you. You are the only one constantly referring to these women as "lying women". I will state again, there is nothing wrong with wanting to implement safeguards to prevent abuse of the system. Is your argument that women will avail of abortions in the UK anyway so allow them to do so here?
MaxWig wrote: » I appreciate your honesty. But I don't think I'm missing the point at all. If you required open-heart surgery (extreme example I know) to treat depression, you would still be treated with compassion, still get the tea no doubt, but there would be a much greater emphasis on getting the diagnoses right. You would be examined, by medics to ascertain the situation in as accurate a way as possible. Abortion is not open-heart surgery, but nor is a day off work and a cup of tea. I completely understand that some people do not believe an abortion to be as significant an event as other, that it does not carry the same implications for some as it does for others. But its disingenuous to suggest that accurately ascertaining whether someone is suicidal or not is some kind of Roman Catholic conspiracy
lazygal wrote: » Do you think women have the right to travel for abortion on request? Would you favour reviewing that right? Is accessing abortion in another jurisdiction an abuse of the right to travel?
OldNotWIse wrote: » Yes. No. No. Happy?
lazygal wrote: » Not really. Why shouldn't women be able to access a service here which is legal in other countries? Why is it ok to access abortion once you don't do it in the republic of Ireland? What difference does it make where the termination is carried out? Should it be difficult for women to access abortion, by making them spend time and money on it in travelling?
MaxWig wrote: » Was that a trick question?
MaxWig wrote: » Its illegal here. Its legal in England. Was that a trick question?
Obliq wrote: » I got it. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
OldNotWIse wrote: » You're not happy? why? Because my opinion is not a carbon copy of yours? Will you only be happy when we are all the same? Just because something is legal in another country doesnt mean people should be allowed do it in another. Isnt that a fairly basic point? Do you think we should have the right to bear arms? Eusthanase? You can't just make a blanket statement like, "oh well they're allowed do it there so why not here". I know what you are trying to get at. You think if I really want to claim a pro life stance I should be trying to stop abortions everywhere right? As an Irish citizen, I have a right to a say in what goes on in our country. tbh your argument has been trotted out many times before and its just a bit...straw clutchy... Go into any court and claim you should be able to break the law because activity X, Y or Z is legal elsewhere and you'll be laughed at. Of course we can take precedence from UK supreme court etc but we have out own legal system, constitution etc. Its just not proper argument to say "well we can do it over there".
Obliq wrote: » Topical. Sadly and truly topical. :mad:
