Season 3 Episode 9: Have NOT read the books/BEWARE SPOILERS MOD NOTE POST #1

DL Saint · 05-06-2013 07:41PM

LionelNashe wrote: »

What is Mance Raider or whatever his name is, and Jon, Ygette, and the Warg etc. doing south of the wall with only a couple of dozen companions? I gathered that they were on their way to attack Castle Black, but I don't know why there are so few of them or why they'd even bother to attack the castle.

The small Wildling contingent were sent over the wall to infiltrate Castle-black, open the gates and "light the biggest fire the north has ever seen" to signal Mance and the rest of the army to breach the castle.

mad turnip · 05-06-2013 07:55PM

Syferus wrote: »

I think it's clear he paid zero attention to her, he just got on a horse and went to warn the Watch and/or to chase the hawk.

If he was trying to save her by leaving there would almost certainly have been at least a reaction shot of his face to telegraph it. He didn't care about her in that split second. The Watch came first.

Did no one see when jon pushed her to the ground? I think he was trying to save her or at least give her some kind of life instead of throwing it away.

jpm4 · 05-06-2013 09:08PM

Agricola wrote: »

I think it was me that prompted the "go watch soap operas" comment! Personally I think that was a little unfair, I like to branch out from Coronation St now and again!

I have no truck with Martin or what he does with his characters. The whole thing is a fiction of his making and he can kill off whoever he likes. As Pixelburp said before, we can all salute the fact that hes breaking convention and giving us something very different - a story with (so far) no moral balancing. The good guys dont always win, no one is safe. If you wanted to keep an audience on the edge of their seat, there is no better way of doing it.

My only personal dislike is the manner in which these deaths occur. Im not discounting for a second that medieval life was short and brutal, life was cheap. This may be a very accurate depiction of it. But..... GOT is still a fictitious narrative, designed to entertain, and my personal preference would be for a small bit of catharsis for the viewer from time to time. Give the people the audience are rooting for a small victory, or at the very least, some mercy. Its hard to digest when long standing characters are Quentin Tarrantino'ed, for what looks like very little purpose other than to illicit the greatest shock value.

Im certainly not morally outraged though and no abuse was shouted at the TV! Its great stuff whatever way you look at it.

Good points.....I think part of the reason I'm not as enamored with the "Anyone can die the realism/brutality is great" viewpoint as others are is that I've seen all before. Anyone else remember the original HBO drama Oz back in the 90s? It might be a prison drama but it's the closest TV match to GOT I can think of: No obvious heroes or moral centre, vile characters sometimes shown in a sympathetic light, extremely violent and any character could die at any point for no reason. This kind of thing was a revelation to me back in the day and am still very fond of the show , but am not as easily impressed by that kind of approach now.

Syferus · 06-06-2013 12:21AM

mad turnip wrote: »

Did no one see when jon pushed her to the ground? I think he was trying to save her or at least give her some kind of life instead of throwing it away.

How does that change the fact he left her behind, nevermind with someone who in his mind could well kill her for murdering his men? He put the Watch before Yigrette in as blatant a way as is humanly possible. She didn't even matter enough to him to save in that moment.

She betrayed her people for him but he couldn't even do that much for her. It's a huge turn and one I don't even know if there's a way back from.

RasTa · 06-06-2013 12:33AM

Poor Rob

Syferus · 06-06-2013 12:45AM

RasTa wrote: »

Poor Rob

Purgatory is a public transport system? Makes sense.

mad turnip · 06-06-2013 12:54AM

Syferus wrote: »

How does that change the fact he left her behind, nevermind with someone who in his mind could well kill her for murdering his men? He put the Watch before Yigrette in as blatant a way as is humanly possible. She didn't even matter enough to him to save in that moment.

She betrayed her people for him but he couldn't even do that much for her. It's a huge turn and one I don't even know if there's a way back from.

Although your right, I think this is something they want to develop no point in having a story were they both wander around completely happy with no drama. Heres the screenshots for the next ep:

http://imgur.com/a/qfKFm#0

Looks like we will see more from Jon and his girlfriend

duploelabs · 06-06-2013 07:32AM

Might be late to the game (if you excuse the pun) but did anyone else recognise Will Champion, who's the drummer from coldplay, playing the drums for the wedding band at the red wedding?

Liamalone · 06-06-2013 07:59AM

duploelabs wrote: »

Might be late to the game (if you excuse the pun) but did anyone else recognise Will Champion, who's the drummer from coldplay, playing the drums for the wedding band at the red wedding?

Explains why the music was awful then

fluke · 06-06-2013 08:54AM

duploelabs wrote: »

Might be late to the game (if you excuse the pun) but did anyone else recognise Will Champion, who's the drummer from coldplay, playing the drums for the wedding band at the red wedding?

a cold play indeed.

ThirdMan · 06-06-2013 09:03AM

Agricola wrote: »

My only personal dislike is the manner in which these deaths occur... Its hard to digest when long standing characters are Quentin Tarrantino'ed, for what looks like very little purpose other than to illicit the greatest shock value.

Episode 9's cull was in the third season of a series that is expected to run for a a total of eight seasons. So saying that characters are killed off for no purpose other than shock value shows a real lack of vision on your behalf. You or I have no idea how essential those deaths may prove to be. Just think of what it means for the other characters. The whole dynamic of the Starks story has shifted yet again. I'm reading the third book at the moment, but I'm only about a quarter way through. But I'm so disturbed and excited by what I have just seen that I'm gonna finish it before the next episode airs.

garv123 · 06-06-2013 10:09AM

I was awoken this morning by the spanish lads working on the church roof across the road from my apartment shouting Hodor! Hodor! Hodor!

I actually got out of bed and went to the window to see was I imagining things.

naughto · 06-06-2013 10:17AM

garv123 wrote: »

I was awoken this morning by the spanish lads working on the church rood across the road from my apartment shouting Hodor! Hodor! Hodor!

I actually got out of bed and went to the window to see was I imagining things.

hello garv long time no see

Anyone · 06-06-2013 12:22PM

Possible minor spoiler for ep 10:

Hodor, Hodor, Hodor, Hodor......Hodor

Son0vagun · 06-06-2013 03:09PM

garv123 wrote: »

I was awoken this morning by the spanish lads working on the church roof across the road from my apartment shouting Hodor! Hodor! Hodor!

I actually got out of bed and went to the window to see was I imagining things.

Had to post that on twitter

Sleepy · 06-06-2013 03:22PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Apparently, Talisa does not appear in the books and her part goes to another character, whom Rob seduces and 'deflowers'. Feeling responsible for having 'ruined' her, he marries her. Chivalrous honour and not love is seemingly the major factor in the decision.

I suspect the creation of Talisa and making her a true love match was designed to increase the shock and moral outrage of the Red Wedding, in the series.

Minor correction:Book

Rob is the one seduced by Jeyne Westerling, who joins him in his sick-bed when he's feverish from an arrow wound.

There's some suggestions in later books that Lady Westerling had her daughter do this at Tywin Lannister's suggestion, though admittedly these suggestions are from her mother's mouth and possibly not to be trusted.

If anything, it makes Robb *more* chivalrous as he's putting her honour ahead of his own out of a misplaced sense of guilt (The Seven being similar in views to Catholicism?).

Kxiii · 06-06-2013 04:23PM

daily-morning-awesomeness-311.jpg?w=500&h=578

JaMarcus Hustle · 06-06-2013 06:21PM

el dude · 06-06-2013 06:36PM

Gbear · 07-06-2013 12:00AM

Agricola wrote: »

My only personal dislike is the manner in which these deaths occur. Im not discounting for a second that medieval life was short and brutal, life was cheap. This may be a very accurate depiction of it. But..... GOT is still a fictitious narrative, designed to entertain, and my personal preference would be for a small bit of catharsis for the viewer from time to time. Give the people the audience are rooting for a small victory, or at the very least, some mercy. Its hard to digest when long standing characters are Quentin Tarrantino'ed, for what looks like very little purpose other than to illicit the greatest shock value.

I think that you're getting it backwards.

Because of the way honourable people are and because of the brutality of the world, this is a very likely outcome for them. If it was shoehorned into the narrative you'd have a point but with the benefit of hindsight Ned, Cat and Robb were begging to be murdered.

Things were pretty ****ty in general until quite recently. I think that the benevolent rulers in the past were generally in the minority. Most of them weren't totally cruel because being cruel is just as good a way to get yourself killed as being hopelessly naive.

If we look at Tywin, he has it down to a T. I doubt he's a terrible ruler. I'd say "firm but fair" probably covers most of his rule. As a result, his position is very stable. Yes, he had to win a war, but that was mostly instigated by his stupid underlings. Perhaps trusting his children too much (or Cersei and Joffrey by extension) is his one failing.

It would be far more jarring for the Starks to have been able to win. It just wouldn't have been good storytelling.
Novelty is obviously important and it seems like we're focusing a lot on "one in a million" sort of stories at the moment where the loser lucks out and gets the girl, the brave champion succeeds against all odds.

There's nothing wrong with feeling horrified by the events last week. Everything functioning normally there. What makes this show great to me is that it doesn't go for cheap gratification (in this instance).
It's a story that's aiming at a whole different set of emotions that are perhaps overlooked by a huge chunk of media.

Rubber_Soul · 07-06-2013 12:10AM

Syferus wrote: »

How does that change the fact he left her behind, nevermind with someone who in his mind could well kill her for murdering his men? He put the Watch before Yigrette in as blatant a way as is humanly possible. She didn't even matter enough to him to save in that moment.

She betrayed her people for him but he couldn't even do that much for her. It's a huge turn and one I don't even know if there's a way back from.

I disagree here, she was about to fight on his side but he stopped her. Imo he knows he can't take her back to the Watch and if she kills one of the wildlings she'll be on her own and so he stops her jumping in on his side. That's not the actions of someone that doesn't care.

Syferus · 07-06-2013 02:31AM

StarshipPooper wrote: »

I disagree here, she was about to fight on his side but he stopped her. Imo he knows he can't take her back to the Watch and if she kills one of the wildlings she'll be on her own and so he stops her jumping in on his side. That's not the actions of someone that doesn't care.

He obviously cares about her in a general sense but leaving her with the wooly lad isn't exactly a situation he can be sure of ending well. Even if she doesn't kill anyone she could easily be seen as a traitor so there was a very real degree of him disregarding her when he left without her.

Rubber_Soul · 07-06-2013 07:44AM

Syferus wrote: »

He obviously cares about her in a general sense but leaving her with the wooly lad isn't exactly a situation he can be sure of ending well. Even if she doesn't kill anyone she could easily be seen as a traitor so there was a very real degree of him disregarding her when he left without her.

Of course he can't be sure that leaving her will end well, but if he brings her with him it definitely won't end well. She's a wildling, the Watch will kill her if he brings her back so his only options are possible death vs certain death.

The Corinthian · 07-06-2013 09:41AM

Sleepy wrote: »

If anything, it makes Robb *more* chivalrous as he's putting her honour ahead of his own out of a misplaced sense of guilt (The Seven being similar in views to Catholicism?).

I understand, but what I was highlighting was that the series put his marriage down to love, rather than chivalry, as in the books; possibly as it would create a greater shock value at the Red Wedding.

Gbear wrote: »

If we look at Tywin, he has it down to a T. I doubt he's a terrible ruler. I'd say "firm but fair" probably covers most of his rule. As a result, his position is very stable. Yes, he had to win a war, but that was mostly instigated by his stupid underlings. Perhaps trusting his children too much (or Cersei and Joffrey by extension) is his one failing.

Tywin is the classic model of a 'prince' according to Machiavelli. He understands the principle that it is better to be feared than loved, yet also that one should not be hated, but respected.

Footoo · 07-06-2013 09:48AM

Liamalone wrote: »

Explains why the music was awful then

I despise Coldpay so normally I'd be fully on board with this joke but I have to point out that he's actually a bloody great drummer.

Syferus · 07-06-2013 04:29PM

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Of course he can't be sure that leaving her will end well, but if he brings her with him it definitely won't end well. She's a wildling, the Watch will kill her if he brings her back so his only options are possible death vs certain death.

What was stopping him taking her with him and dropping her somewhere other than Castle Black on the way there? Leaving her there was incredibly stupid if the reasoning was she'd be imprisoned or killed at the Wall. I'd guess at worst even if she did go to the Wall she'd be imprisoned given the context of what she did and the treatment of other Wildlings in the north.

She more likely to end up dead if she attacks the Wall, which is the end goal of the group Jon left her with.

Degag · 07-06-2013 06:38PM

BluesBerry wrote: »

Best part of that is at about the 4 minute mark when the dog goes over to see if the girl hiding behind the sheet is ok!

Ally Dick · 07-06-2013 11:32PM

Degag wrote: »

Best part of that is at about the 4 minute mark when the dog goes over to see if the girl hiding behind the sheet is ok!

What a shower of idiots. How can you take things that seriously

pixelburp · 08-06-2013 12:09AM

Dunno if people saw Graham Norton tonight, but he was reading out some tweets made by Downtown Abbey fans, after an episode in which a lead character dies. The sweariness, overreactions, ranting and declarations never to watch the show again were almost identical to those seen after this latest GoT episode. It proves to me how much of an echo chamber Twitter really is, and how it should be ignored as a policy; these people simply aren't worth the time of day...

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 08-06-2013 01:58PM

Just after watching episode 7 of the series (again) and I'm beginning to doubt whether it was the Lannisters who got to Bolton and Frey. When Bolton sent Jamie back to King's Landing Jamie told him to tell Robb that the Lannister's send their regards. Frey may still have just been sore over Robb marrying Tallisa, like we were told he would be, and Bolton and Frey may have conspired to get a mutually beneficial deal. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see Bolton declare himself King in the North and for the war to continue without the Starks.

Season 3 Episode 9: Have NOT read the books/BEWARE SPOILERS MOD NOTE POST #1

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