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British and Irish Lions vs Barbarian FC, Sat 1 June 12:30pm; Sky Sports 1

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    #482
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,757 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Sorry but Sexton will not miss out to Farrell for the 10 shirt.

    I really really wish people would stop fixating on goal kicking when it comes to judging an out half, especially when there are others who can kick in the team.

    Sexton's kicking stats (with a different ball to the one they will use in Oz) was 2 from 5. That means the Lions scored 5 tries in the 20 mins he was on the pitch.

    Honestly, and I'm not wanting to knock Farrell, but the gulf between Farrell an Sexton today was scary.

    On Farrell the conditions were tough and he was no doubt nervous but I actually thought to myself during the game that Paddy Jackson, never mind Wilkinson, Biggar or even Madigan would have been a better option for the Lions than Farrell given other players can kick the goals. Anyway I hope he moves on quickly lets hope he has a better go of it next time out, for the next 5 weeks he isn't English, he is a Lion. His performance reminded me of Earls four years ago so hopefully he can raise his game just like Earls did on that tour.


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    #483
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    i love muddy rugby matches, makes me feel dirty



    we win keith, we win


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    #484
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    bilston wrote: »
    Sorry but Sexton will not miss out to Farrell for the 10 shirt.

    I really really wish people would stop fixating on goal kicking when it comes to judging an out half, especially when there are others who can kick in the team.

    Sexton's kicking stats (with a different ball to the one they will use in Oz) was 2 from 5. That means the Lions scored 5 tries in the 20 mins he was on the pitch.

    Honestly, and I'm not wanting to knock Farrell, but the gulf between Farrell an Sexton today was scary.

    On Farrell the conditions were tough and he was no doubt nervous but I actually thought to myself during the game that Paddy Jackson, never mind Wilkinson, Biggar or even Madigan would have been a better option for the Lions than Farrell given other players can kick the goals. Anyway I hope he moves on quickly lets hope he has a better go of it next time out, for the next 5 weeks he isn't English, he is a Lion. His performance reminded me of Earls four years ago so hopefully he can raise his game just like Earls did on that tour.

    I agree, because HP is such a good goalkicker, Sexton's place kicking doesn't come into the equation. In which case he wins hands down v Farrell.


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    #485
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    bilston wrote: »
    On Farrell the conditions were tough and he was no doubt nervous but I actually thought to myself during the game that Paddy Jackson, never mind Wilkinson, Biggar or even Madigan would have been a better option for the Lions than Farrell given other players can kick the goals. Anyway I hope he moves on quickly lets hope he has a better go of it next time out, for the next 5 weeks he isn't English, he is a Lion. His performance reminded me of Earls four years ago so hopefully he can raise his game just like Earls did on that tour.


    I don't think its possible to have a worse tour than Earls did. I may be wrong here but I think Earls was much younger than Farrell when he toured and a lot less experienced. He was completely out of his depth and it showed. In Farrell's instance, hes young but hes not that young and hes much more experienced than Earls. He was poor today but he's definitely not out of his depth in the way Earls was. I genuinely just think he had an off game. Hes already played in huge games for Saracens and England so I can't imagine nerves being too much of a factor.

    I think Farrell is genuinely getting a hard time. Lots of comments on social media predicting that Farrell will go on to have a tour like Keith Earls did in 09. This all after one game, in incredibly humid conditions.


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    #486
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    bilston wrote: »
    Sorry but Sexton will not miss out to Farrell for the 10 shirt.

    I really really wish people would stop fixating on goal kicking when it comes to judging an out half, especially when there are others who can kick in the team.

    Sexton's kicking stats (with a different ball to the one they will use in Oz) was 2 from 5. That means the Lions scored 5 tries in the 20 mins he was on the pitch. .

    People fixate on goalkicking, because that is one of Sexton's duties on the field. If his kicking doesn't improve - it should - Halfpenny needs to be involved. You can't afford to have a 2/5 kicker in a close match, regardless of how much better than Farrell he is.


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    #487
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Bogota wrote: »
    I don't think its possible to have a worse tour than Earls did.

    Very poor in the first match but improved from there despite being moved from centre to fullback (scored a try against the Cheetahs and Emerging Boks). I do think it's possible!


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    #488
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Bogota wrote: »
    I don't think its possible to have a worse tour than Earls did. I may be wrong here but I think Earls was much younger than Farrell when he toured and a lot less experienced. He was completely out of his depth and it showed. In Farrell's instance, hes young but hes not that young and hes much more experienced than Earls. He was poor today but he's definitely not out of his depth in the way Earls was. I genuinely just think he had an off game. Hes already played in huge games for Saracens and England so I can't imagine nerves being too much of a factor.

    I think Farrell is genuinely getting a hard time. Lots of comments on social media predicting that Farrell will go on to have a tour like Keith Earls did in 09. This all after one game, in incredibly humid conditions.

    You're in complete fantasy land. Earls had a stinker of a first game but he did fine on the 09 tour. Certainly not the nightmare you're making it out to be


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    #489
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    Bogota wrote: »
    Well if Phillips can't break then Murray doesn't have a hope to be honest.

    Not trying to be offensive to Murray but hes a poor man's Phillips. Hes the same kind of player but less effective IMO. Phillips does everything he does and better. The best option is Phillips starting and then Youngs on bench to change things if its not working.

    There's no need to go into what Phillips offers (it was fairly obvious today), but I would have thought Murray has a better kicking and defensive game to be honest, and is passing was definitely sharper today. I thought Phillips threw a few sloppy passes early on.

    It did look like a fairly significant part of the Lions gameplan was creating space around the fringes for the scrumhalfs to exploit. Obviously the Barbarians weren't going to be the most organised defensively, but a pattern of to the short side twice, and then going open seemed to open up space around the rucks 15 metres in from the touchlines. If they can recreate the space throughout the tour then all 3 scrumhalfs a very capable of exploiting it.


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    #490
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Very poor in the first match but improved from there. I do think it's possible!

    He improved but he was always out of his depth. I just meant that I don't think its possible that you'll ever see a player on a Lions tour that was so 'green'.

    Farrelly certainly isn't green and I can't see him having the sort of tour that Earls did. I'd put it down to an off game rather than nerves or inexperience. There's a massive difference in the level that Earls was at when he first toured and what Farrell is at now.


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    #491
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    trouttrout wrote: »
    You're in complete fantasy land. Earls had a stinker of a first game but he did fine on the 09 tour. Certainly not the nightmare you're making it out to be

    He had a nightmare on the tour. He said it himself in an interview that he wasn't ready and he hit a serious dip in confidence after the tour.


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    #492
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,442 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    People fixate on goalkicking, because that is one of Sexton's duties on the field. If his kicking doesn't improve - it should - Halfpenny needs to be involved. You can't afford to have a 2/5 kicker in a close match, regardless of how much better than Farrell he is.

    Halfpenny will be involved either way.

    There is nothing to stipulate that goal kicking has to be one of Sexton's duties either.

    Anyway, his kicking is fine. Total non-issue.


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    #493
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Bogota wrote: »
    He had a nightmare on the tour. He said it himself in an interview that he wasn't ready and he hit a serious dip in confidence after the tour.

    When did Earls say he had a nightmare on the Lions tour and was not ready for it? Link?


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    #494
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    trouttrout wrote: »
    You're in complete fantasy land. Earls had a stinker of a first game but he did fine on the 09 tour. Certainly not the nightmare you're making it out to be

    No matter what Earls does, how many mistakes he makes, there's always someone who'll say "his tackling is fine" or "his passing is fine" when it's patently untrue. He was never in contention for the test team, and Ugo Monye was. Really.


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    #495
    neilmulvey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 577 ✭✭✭neilmulvey


    I wouldnt be concerned about Sextons kicking. He missed a few. Every player no matter how good they are has those days. Sexton, injuring permitting is nailed on test starter and I think Best, O'Connell, Heaslip and O'Driscoll will also be thereabouts.

    Possibly an Irish/Welsh only test team.
    Halfpenny, Cuthbert, O'Driscoll, Roberts, North, Sexton, Phillips, Heaslip, Tipuric, Warburton, O'Connell, Wyn Jones, Jones, Hibbard, Healy



    Today was basicallly a waste of time. I think the Lions need to seriously consider playing a game in the home nations on a rotational basis before each tour even if its a Lions Barbarians selection from Rabo/Aviva leagues, guys who missed selection but who might want to make a final impression in case of injury/suspension. Might provide more of a spectacle too.


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    #496
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    awec wrote: »
    Halfpenny will be involved either way.

    There is nothing to stipulate that goal kicking has to be one of Sexton's duties either.

    Injuries and dips in form happen. Maybe Racing will send ROG over for a few weeks to sort Johnny's kicking out :D .


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    #497
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    danthefan wrote: »
    No matter what Earls does, how many mistakes he makes, there's always someone who'll say "his tackling is fine" or "his passing is fine" when it's patently untrue. He was never in contention for the test team, and Ugo Monye was. Really.

    Yawn. Earls could win IRB world player of the year and a majority of this country still wouldn't rate him. He only does wrong according to some.


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    #498
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    Yawn. Earls could win IRB world player of the year.


    No he couldn't.

    Stopped reading.


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    #499
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,442 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    Yawn. Earls could win IRB world player of the year and a majority of this country still wouldn't rate him. He only does wrong according to some.

    Well, I don't think we ever have to worry about that situation arising anyway. :p


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    #500
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    danthefan wrote: »
    No he couldn't.

    Stopped reading.


    Yes, because he was being completely literal :rolleyes:

    Anyway Earls was only dragged into this because of some weird comparison with Farrell. Nothing to do with the Lions this year or the game that was just played


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    #501
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Yes, because he was being completely literal :rolleyes:


    Well, in fairness people are only saying that Earls wasn't ready for the Lions when he toured and was nowhere near being in contention to start. I don't think that means people have a vendetta against him as you and mathama seem to be implying.

    Just to be clear, do you think that Earls was in fact ready and that he was actually in contention for a starting position?


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    #502
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭OldRio


    It looks like some on here have started picking the Lions test team v Australia after that one match. (Some started penciling in names and writing other players off who were not even playing after 40 minutes )
    Baabaas were bloody awful. Not interested and I fear for the future of that particular team.
    The Lions beat what was in front of them. Much more difficult games to come.
    HSBC got the game they wanted. After all he who pays the piper calls the tune.


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    #503
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Bogota wrote: »
    Well, in fairness people are only saying that Earls wasn't ready for the Lions when he toured and was nowhere near being in contention to start. I don't think that means people have a vendetta against him as you and mathama seem to be implying.

    Just to be clear, do you think that Earls was in fact ready and that he was actually in contention for a starting position?

    still waiting for a link to that article btw where Earls said he was had a nightmare. PM it to me if you want, not going to ruin the thread by discussing Earls considering it's entirely off topic


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    #504
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,935 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    You do know it's a Lions tradition to select a bolter? Earls was on fire that season


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    #505
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Bogota wrote: »
    Well, in fairness people are only saying that Earls wasn't ready for the Lions when he toured and was nowhere near being in contention to start. I don't think that means people have a vendetta against him as you and mathama seem to be implying.

    Just to be clear, do you think that Earls was in fact ready and that he was actually in contention for a starting position?

    No, people are saying that he had a poor first game but that his entire tour wasn't a disaster as you initially stated. Nobody here mentioned him with regard to the starting team. Just because he didn't make the test team doesn't mean he had a nightmare tour.


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    #506
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,442 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    OldRio wrote: »
    It looks like some on here have started picking the Lions test team v Australia after that one match. (Some started penciling in names and writing other players off who were not even playing after 40 minutes )
    Baabaas were bloody awful. Not interested and I fear for the future of that particular team.
    The Lions beat what was in front of them. Much more difficult games to come.
    HSBC got the game they wanted. After all he who pays the piper calls the tune.

    Not too much can be taken from that game today. Are we any wiser than we were this time yesterday?


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    #507
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    leakyboots wrote: »
    ;) Yeah Murray can't do what Philips does? Had a part in both tries since he came on

    Phillips man of the match? Murray doing it against clearly exhausted and disinterested opposition? I'll take Phillips thanks


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    #508
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    awec wrote: »
    Not too much can be taken from that game today. Are we any wiser than we were this time yesterday?

    i think im glad i missed the game now...

    TBF whoever decided it was a good idea to play a game in hong kong with 2 makeshift teams in 40 degree heat needs their heads examined


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    #509
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    trouttrout wrote: »
    still waiting for a link to that article btw where Earls said he was had a nightmare. PM it to me if you want, not going to ruin the thread by discussing Earls considering it's entirely off topic

    There's an interview where he said he didn't feel ready and his confidence took a dip. I can't find the exact interview but its referenced to here http://newstalk.ie/Keith-Earls--Im-just-starting-to-believe-in-myself-now and here
    but for a player who has admitted to issues with self-confidence
    http://whiffofcordite.com/2013/05/07/what-next-for-keith-earls/

    Theres an article (that maybe other posters might know where to find) where he talks about his self-confidence issues stemming from the Lions tour that he didn't feel he was ready for.


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    #510
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭OldRio


    awec wrote: »
    Not too much can be taken from that game today. Are we any wiser than we were this time yesterday?

    Exactly.
    Only winner was the sponsors.


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    #511
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    OldRio wrote: »
    Exactly.
    Only winner was the sponsors.

    Well that's just not correct, Gatland is happy for some of his players to have a game under their belt, no matter the result.


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