Who is your 13 for RWC 2015

case885 · 26-05-2013 1:22pm #1

I know its a bit early to be discussing but seeing as o driscoll has completely ruled himself out of playing in it who do ye think will start? I dont think earls or cave are good enough to play the likes of france, new zealand but who knows they might improve in the next few years.

Buer · 26-05-2013 1:26pm

Jared Payne. Not a contest for me once he's fit and gets a run in the team before that.

TheKeenMachine · 26-05-2013 1:33pm

I hope it'll be Henshaw, outside backs of
11. Zebo
12. Marshall
13. Henshaw
14. Gilroy
15. Kearney
look very dangerous indeed

Swiwi · 26-05-2013 1:36pm

I'm biased, but I'd give Payne a run.

irishbucsfan · 26-05-2013 1:41pm

Yeah there's a bit of a drop off after Payne. I'd like to see Marshall there again after a few displays there for Ulster.

I'd be fairly sure that it'll be an Ulster player.

Podge_irl · 26-05-2013 1:42pm

Payne most likely though I'd give Henshaw a shot and we shouldn't forget Cave.

Mahatma Geansai · 26-05-2013 2:06pm

How often has Payne played at 13 for Ulster? He's a great player, but I'd be sick to see another player who can't get considered for his own national team stroll into the Irish team.

DGRulz · 26-05-2013 2:08pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

How often has Payne played at 13 for Ulster? He's a great player, but I'd be sick to see another player who can't get considered for his own team stroll into the Irish team.

I'm happy to be corrected by my Ulster brothers but I'm pretty sure Payne is a 13 that just happens to play fullback for Ulster because they have Cave.

Mahatma Geansai · 26-05-2013 2:11pm

DGRulz wrote: »

I'm happy to be corrected by my Ulster brothers but I'm pretty sure Payne is a 13 that just happens to play fullback for Ulster because they have Cave.

Pretty sure you're right, but I'm genuinely curious to know often he has played 13 for Ulster. AFAIK it'd only be 2/3 times.

bilston · 26-05-2013 2:14pm

DGRulz wrote: »

I'm happy to be corrected by my Ulster brothers but I'm pretty sure Payne is a 13 that just happens to play fullback for Ulster because they have Cave.

We have Cave and also apart from Nelson no other FB. Maybe next season we might see a bit more of Gilroy at FB which might allow Payne more of a run at 13.

There was a moment towards the end yesterday when Ulster were 6 points down and in and around the Leinster 22 where Payne just arched his way round BOD, it was a class bit of play that unfortunately for Ulster didn't lead to anything. I'd say Payne has a real chance of being BOD's successor. That said he would need to playing there for Ulster.

DGRulz · 26-05-2013 2:16pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Pretty sure you're right, but I'm genuinely curious to know often he has played 13 for Ulster. AFAIK it'd only be 2/3 times.

Sounds about right, going on memory he plays there when Cave is rested. But if the IRFU wanted him played more in the centre before/after he gets IQ you can be pretty sure words and suggestions would be had.

tolosenc · 26-05-2013 2:25pm

BOD. Please?

Fooker · 26-05-2013 2:33pm

I think it could be Olding and Marshall at 12/13. Olding really has performed well since has been given a shot. Ulster are really spoilt for choice in the backs with two good players for each position.

Mind you, Cave is no slouch and is vastly underrated. He is a solid, not spectacular centre, but does show a bit of class from time to time...

case885 · 26-05-2013 2:38pm

Fooker wrote: »

I think it could be Olding and Marshall at 12/13. Olding really has performed well since has been given a shot. Ulster are really spoilt for choice in the backs with two good players for each position.

Mind you, Cave is no slouch and is vastly underrated. He is a solid, not spectacular centre, but does show a bit of class from time to time...

Yes its a shame olding and marshall are both 12 great talents

Chabals Beard · 26-05-2013 2:43pm

Payne for me.. Cave is a good club player.. I hope Earls concentrates on being a winger, I honestly think if he gets a run of games there he can be back in the starting team, a coach like Schmidt can help him massively also. He is without doubt the best player with ball in hand that Ireland have

case885 · 26-05-2013 2:47pm

when will payne be irish qualified?

irishbucsfan · 26-05-2013 2:47pm

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Payne for me.. Cave is a good club player.. I hope Earls concentrates on being a winger, I honestly think if he gets a run of games there he can be back in the starting team, a coach like Schmidt can help him massively also. He is without doubt the best player with ball in hand that Ireland have

Earls? He's exactly the type of winger that Schimdt didn't seem interested in having at Leinster. If Schmidt brings the Leinster style to Ireland then I think Earls might struggle to fit into it.

bilston · 26-05-2013 2:55pm

case885 wrote: »

Yes its a shame olding and marshall are both 12 great talents

I think both have the skills for 13.

Sinbad_NI · 26-05-2013 2:56pm

case885 wrote: »

when will payne be irish qualified?

3 years would be start of next season.

For me he has to be in the Irish team. Star quality where ever he plays.

freyners · 26-05-2013 3:01pm

Griffin, Henshaw and EOM all must be in with a shout

Chabals Beard · 26-05-2013 3:02pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Earls? He's exactly the type of winger that Schimdt didn't seem interested in having at Leinster. If Schmidt brings the Leinster style to Ireland then I think Earls might struggle to fit into it.

Could you elaborate? What's the say Earls can't adapt. As I said, Schmidt is the type of coach Earls needed at the start of his career

case885 · 26-05-2013 3:08pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Earls? He's exactly the type of winger that Schimdt didn't seem interested in having at Leinster. If Schmidt brings the Leinster style to Ireland then I think Earls might struggle to fit into it.

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Could you elaborate? What's the say Earls can't adapt. As I said, Schmidt is the type of coach Earls needed at the start of his career

completely off topic :P

Chabals Beard · 26-05-2013 3:13pm

case885 wrote: »

completely off topic :P

No not really

case885 · 26-05-2013 3:18pm

yes it is your just trying to make an argument for schmidt to start earls on the wing (which hopefully wont happen), nothing to do with this

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 3:20pm

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Payne for me.. Cave is a good club player.. I hope Earls concentrates on being a winger, I honestly think if he gets a run of games there he can be back in the starting team, a coach like Schmidt can help him massively also. He is without doubt the best player with ball in hand that Ireland have

Ehhhhh?

He is in me hole.

padser · 26-05-2013 3:21pm

Can't believe no one has mentioned Luke Fitz. Genuine contender for 13, proven world class talent (as opposed to potential world class talent of many of the people mentioned) and a skill set very very suited to playing 13.

Also, suggesting that the young guys with talent will have relegated Tommy Bowe to the bench within 2 seasons seems optimistic as well.

jacothelad · 26-05-2013 3:22pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

How often has Payne played at 13 for Ulster? He's a great player, but I'd be sick to see another player who can't get considered for his own team stroll into the Irish team.

Like Earls on the wing.....:D:D

Chabals Beard · 26-05-2013 3:24pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Ehhhhh?

He is in me hole.

Right, one of the best.. and when I say best with ball in hand, I generally mean for line breaks. If there was a competition consisting of and 1 on 1 in a small grid, my money is on Earls all day

CatFromHue · 26-05-2013 3:25pm

padser wrote: »

Can't believe no one has mentioned Luke Fitz. Genuine contender for 13, proven world class talent (as opposed to potential world class talent of many of the people mentioned) and a skill set very very suited to playing 13.

Also, suggesting that the young guys with talent will have relegated Tommy Bowe to the bench within 2 seasons seems optimistic as well.

When is Fitzgerald actually going to play 13 though?

BOD is with Leinster for next season and EOM will be fully back too and we'll have a short list of players for the outside back positions i.e. Leinster need wingers for next season not another 13.

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 3:26pm

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Right, one of the best.. and when I say best with ball in hand, I generally mean for line breaks. If there was a competition consisting of and 1 on 1 in a small grid, my money is on Earls all day

Yeah the linebreak theory is perhaps more coherent, but with regards your 1 on 1, give me Luke Fitz, Gilroy or Zebo anyday.

With regards to real ball in hand, I could list at least 5 that are better than Earls.

Acatually his handling skills and lack of vision are an issue in his game imo.

Chabals Beard · 26-05-2013 3:32pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Yeah the linebreak theory is perhaps more coherent, but with regards your 1 on 1, give me Luke Fitz, Gilroy or Zebo anyday.

With regards to real ball in hand, I could list at least 5 that are better than Earls.

I would still go with Earls over those players for one on one. Earls always looks dangerous given the smallest bit of space.. still though, he isn't a center, but is a good damn winger

Hagz · 26-05-2013 3:34pm

Payne for me, but that depends on whether Ulster will move him to 13. I think they're likely to keep him at full-back though, so it's a toss up between Macken and Henshaw for me.

Irlandczyk · 26-05-2013 3:39pm

Genuinely surprised to not see more mentions of Eoin O'Malley here. He'll be back for next season and I think he showed some potential, provided he can stay fairly injury free there's plenty of time for him to develop before RWC2015. AFAIR, even BOD mentioned in an interview at some point that he rates EOM very highly. Considering Leinster need wingers next year I don't think it's really an option to try putting Luke Fitz at 13. Cave is a definite option, too. Payne, I'm not sure about. We haven't seen him play there much at all and, while there's time for him to get a good run there, I'll wait until seeing him more often to make an opinion on him there. Earls is an option at 13, but I really don't want to see him there, TBH, I think he's much better on the wing. Don't know as much about Henshaw TBH...

desertcircus · 26-05-2013 3:43pm

Luke Fitgerald is a very decent shout. If he can stop getting injured (granted, a big if) he could become a lethal 13. He played at centre a few times for Leinster and seemed to cause chaos in opposition defences almost at will. Plus with Sexton gone and Darcy and BOD on the way out, a decision may be made to play Luke in midfield to counter the lack of big-game experience there.

padser · 26-05-2013 4:06pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

When is Fitzgerald actually going to play 13 though?

BOD is with Leinster for next season and EOM will be fully back too and we'll have a short list of players for the outside back positions i.e. Leinster need wingers for next season not another 13.

I actually agree that playing 13 at Leinster may be the obstacle for Luke. But realistically BOD will play less than 50% of Leinsters games next season even outside international windows so plenty of scope for someone else. It's really a question of whether Luke can get ahead of EOM to stake his claim to it.

For Luke, his chances of an Ireland 13 shirt in 2015 probably depends on both kearneys, kirchner and Ferg staying fit and in form in 2014 along with someone like Adam Byrme becoming a realistic pro 12 stater....

Mahatma Geansai · 26-05-2013 4:17pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Like Earls on the wing.....:D:D

Not the point I was trying to make, so I've edited my original post. I was intending to bemoan another SHer playing for Ireland.

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 4:19pm

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Not the point I was trying to make, so I've edited my original post. I was intending to bemoan another SHer playing for Ireland.

That's grand. I assume you'll be saying similar when CJ Stander eventually qualifies and is up against Heaslip or SOB for the backrow?

the baby bull elephant · 26-05-2013 4:24pm

Darren Cave for me.

Underrated player makes those around him look good.

CatFromHue · 26-05-2013 4:29pm

padser wrote: »

I actually agree that playing 13 at Leinster may be the obstacle for Luke. But realistically BOD will play less than 50% of Leinsters games next season even outside international windows so plenty of scope for someone else. It's really a question of whether Luke can get ahead of EOM to stake his claim to it.

For Luke, his chances of an Ireland 13 shirt in 2015 probably depends on both kearneys, kirchner and Ferg staying fit and in form in 2014 along with someone like Adam Byrme becoming a realistic pro 12 stater....

Dave Kearney, McFadden, Fitzgerald....are they are only Senior wingers next season. Maybe Kirchner I suppose.

If so I can't see Fitzgerald even being considered by O'Connor as a 13. We're just too light to even experiment with it, you could argue we've more 13's than we do wingers (BOD, EOM, and McFadden)!

the baby bull elephant · 26-05-2013 4:34pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Dave Kearney, McFadden, Fitzgerald....are they are only Senior wingers next season. Maybe Kirchner I suppose.

If so I can't see Fitzgerald even being considered by O'Connor as a 13. We're just too light to even experiment with it, you could argue we've more 13's than we do wingers (BOD, EOM, and McFadden)!

Except McFadden's one of those you're naming wing!

Presume you meant Macken?

BO'D old and injury prone he'll be rested a lot especially after the Lions and EO'M seems to constantly be injured at the moment. I'd say he's more likely to use on of the more inexperienced guys on the wing and we have more young wingers than centres. I'm not saying Fitzgerald will get a good run at 13 or that he should be there for Ireland but there is a lot in favour of him getting a run there.

its_phil · 26-05-2013 4:35pm

Hagz wrote: »

Payne for me, but that depends on whether Ulster will move him to 13. I think they're likely to keep him at full-back though, so it's a toss up between Macken and Henshaw for me.

Griffin and O'Malley are much further along the line than Macken IMO. Macken's defence needs to improve dramatically

Stev_o · 26-05-2013 4:37pm

Why not put McFadden back to where he first caught everyones eye. I honestly don't think Fitzgerald would be a good 13. Don't think he's ever really stood out playing in the centre when he's had the chance. EOM is a good operator when he's healthy though he's a bit on the small side.

Hagz · 26-05-2013 4:44pm

its_phil wrote: »

Griffin and O'Malley are much further along the line than Macken IMO. Macken's defence needs to improve dramatically

True. But I still think Macken has a big future and I think he has more potential than the two centres you've named. Hopefully O'Connor gives him a good amount of game-time.

Hagz · 26-05-2013 4:45pm

Stev_o wrote: »

I honestly don't think Fitzgerald would be a good 13. Don't think he's ever really stood out playing in the centre when he's had the chance.

He definitely stood out when he played 12 for Leinster.

[Jackass] · 26-05-2013 4:48pm

If Payne can play 13 then he's a shoe in. Fantastic player. I think he'd be ahead of Kearney for the Irish 15 jersey at the moment. Two quality players, would be great to have them in the same team.

It will be interesting to see how O'Malley, Reid and possibly Macken get on at Leinster, presumably they'll be seeing increased game time next season and the season after (prior to the world cup) will have a full season under their belt post-O'Driscoll. O'Malley has looked very good, if needing to bulk up a bit, but he's so injury prone it's tough to see him making an impact if he continues his current run of injuries.

Cave is good but not sure he has the ability to be a top class international 13. Marshall may also end up at 13 with Olding at 12 at Ulster perhaps.

Henshaw is another contender, don't forget Luke Fitzgerald also, might be a bolter.

Strange times, a massive group of promising young players coming through at the same time. Great for Irish rugby but serious competition in just about every position from young lads coming through.

connachta · 26-05-2013 4:51pm

Dannie Poolman, will be IQ in summer 2015, already very consistant, espacially in defence

Mahatma Geansai · 26-05-2013 4:55pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

That's grand. I assume you'll be saying similar when CJ Stander eventually qualifies and is up against Heaslip or SOB for the backrow?

Hopefully so. Depending how he turns out, I might be calling for him to get the one cap to keep him at Munster, but I'd much rather him play in a darker shade of green.

its_phil · 26-05-2013 4:56pm

Hagz wrote: »

True. But I still think Macken has a big future and I think he has more potential than the two centres you've named. Hopefully O'Connor gives him a good amount of game-time.

Don't agree especially with Griffin. I had big hopes for Macken having followed him in school much more than Griffin but bar that game when he got the hat-trick I haven't been impressed when I have seen him.

Griffin has gone from doubts on size in pro game to becoming Connachts top defender. Very good on the floor and has made more than a few massive turnovers since New Year. Hasn't rediscovered spark in attack though since coming back from surgery. Hopefully good pre-season does the job. Same goes for EOM there too.

its_phil · 26-05-2013 4:58pm

connachta wrote: »

Dannie Poolman, will be IQ in summer 2015, already very consistant, espacially in defence

I think Poolman's future is at winger, but he is very capable there

Hagz · 26-05-2013 5:10pm

its_phil wrote: »

Griffin has gone from doubts on size in pro game to becoming Connachts top defender. Very good on the floor and has made more than a few massive turnovers since New Year. Hasn't rediscovered spark in attack though since coming back from surgery. Hopefully good pre-season does the job. Same goes for EOM there too.

I think Griffin will struggle to get a look in if Lam tests Henshaw at 13. He has had the benefit of little to no competition for the shirt (at least no where near the competition that Macken faces), and as such has had a lot more game-time than Macken, even with his injuries. Good player though.

boschmaster · 26-05-2013 5:40pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Madigan yet. He's a genuine play maker, aggressive in attack and if he's put into space or if he sees a half gap he'll burst through it. He has lovely hands also, I was very impressed with some of his soft touches against Italy. I haven't seen enough of him at 12 but I well prefer him at 10. It's pretty unrealistic to see him at 13 now that SexBomb is gone but for games against Treviso, Marsh could get a shot at 10 with MadDog at 13.

Who is your 13 for RWC 2015

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