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Huge riots in Stockholm for the past 5 days and it seems a bit under-reported

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    mike65 wrote: »
    and the poor tend to end up all in the same place, usually due to market forces but as a policy in some cases which doesn't help.
    Probably the single (accidental) benefit to Ireland's scatter-gun approach to housing is that we don't have any real ghettoes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭WanabeOlympian


    Gatling wrote: »
    Are you serious what would our immigrants got to riot about ,welfare ,social housing ,education,, negative equity, having to move to foreign land to keep roofs over there families heads ,

    I was refering to Paris, London and now Stockholm. Sorry if that wasn't clear. However, I think Ireland can learn from this and avoid it happening here too in the future.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Gatling wrote: »
    Are you serious what would our immigrants got to riot about ,welfare ,social housing ,education,, negative equity, having to move to foreign land to keep roofs over there families heads ,

    Very little beyond the shocking literacy levels apparently.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Probably the single (accidental) benefit to Ireland's scatter-gun approach to housing is that we don't have any real ghettoes.

    Do you live in a council estate


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gatling wrote: »
    Are you serious what would our immigrants got to riot about (...) having to move to foreign land to keep roofs over there families heads ,
    Eh...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    In regards to Sweden being the rape capital, it's more of a misunderstanding of the stats. Sweden takes sexual violence far more seriously than the likes of South Africa.
    But that is a misconception, according to Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm. She says you cannot compare countries' records, because police procedures and legal definitions vary widely.

    "In Sweden there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics," she says.

    "So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

    The thing is, the number of reported rapes has been going up in Sweden - it's almost trebled in just the last seven years. In 2003, about 2,200 offences were reported by the police, compared to nearly 6,000 in 2010...
    ...
    But Klara Selin says the statistics don't represent a major crime epidemic, rather a shift in attitudes. The public debate about this sort of crime in Sweden over the past two decades has had the effect of raising awareness, she says, and encouraging women to go to the police if they have been attacked.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372

    So really the crimes were occuring but now they're getting the reports that people were unwilling to give. They are also classifying each incident as a separate crime so it raises the stats. There's also events that aren't reported as sexual assault in many countries but are in Sweden. These studies in general are considered to be inaccurate and ineffective ways of ranking countries. There's a significantly different attitude towards crime in Sweden in contrast to South Africa. By the way, South Africa is still the capital. But I guess you'd prefer to blame it on the immigrants with no real foundation to it.

    Riots occur in countries, Britain has tons of them and those responsible were white British people. Student protests gone wrong and looting of London the year before last. But alienating a demographic is not going to resolve the issue of rioting and will likely drive those who are subjected to xenophobia to act aggressively.

    Strange how you didn't point to the fact that they started in socially deprived areas because this is a far greater factor than the fact that it was immigrants especially since Swedes are participating too.

    I do find it sort of fitting that a family member of the man whose death sparked the riots has spoken out against them.
    The family of the 69-year-old man who was shot dead by police has urged rioters to stop. It’s “the wrong way to react,” said Risto Kajanto, the dead man’s brother in-law, according to Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet. “We must discuss with the police and get along - violence only feeds more violence.”
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/police-seek-reinforcements-to-help-end-stockholm-riots-1.1405309

    This has been fairly widely reported btw.

    Your reporting of it is more like a pitch fork wielding crowd that wants to blame the outsiders for everything. It's merely taking advantage of the event. Ye never make a big deal about it if it's just the locals that are rioting....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Gatling wrote: »
    Do you live in a council estate
    No... I live in on a very small road that has young professionals, broke students (myself included), immigrants, and a former Government Minister. I think it's illustrative of they type of social cohesion you get as a result of haphazard planning laws. It's an unintended positive consequence.


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    Riots occur in countries, Britain has tons of them and those responsible were white British people. Student protests gone wrong and looting of London the year before last.
    Don't be silly, that was a mainly white, middle-class crowd, it was obviously the police tactics that were wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    No... I live in on a very small road that has young professionals, broke students (myself included), immigrants, and a former Government Minister. I think it's illustrative of they type of social cohesion you get as a result of haphazard planning laws. It's an unintended positive consequence.

    The reason I asked a lot of council housing list's and estates in some areas go from 20%- 40+% made of non nationals


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Gatling wrote: »
    The reason I asked a lot of council housing list's and estates in some areas go from 20%- 40+% made of non nationals
    Yes I'd believe that figure for some areas, but as a non-colonizer country, I'd assume any proportion of non-irish nationals on Irish housing lists to be reasonably diverse.

    What we'd really want to avoid is the conglomeration of a large, disaffected and homogenous grouping in any one area... be they Irish or anything else. That's why housing strategies which place council tenants amongst private householders should be encouraged at the expense of the council estates you mention.

    I'm not quite advocating "multiculturalism", but the more racial and class diversity we can assign to local districts, the better for social harmony.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    I don't believe a bit of it. It's part of Scandinavia, and we all know Scandinavia is perfect. All the leftys in the meeja tell us so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yes I'd believe that figure for some areas, but as a non-colonizer country, I'd assume any proportion of non-irish nationals on Irish housing lists to be reasonably diverse.

    What we'd really want to avoid is the conglomeration of a large, disaffected and heterogenous grouping in any one area... be they Irish or anything else. That's why housing strategies which place council tenants amongst private householders should be encouraged at the expense of the council estates you mention.

    I'm not quite advocating "multiculturalism", but the more racial and class diversity we can assign to local districts, the better for social harmony.

    Totally agree on that , from what I've seen in certain estates is the complete opposite street after street made up of non national families then a few Irish families and then the same again its only serve's to cause community fragmentation rather than community unity


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    And in related news, Sweden recently became the rape capital of the world, defeating South Africa.

    Given what we know about the Julian Assange case and Sweden's ridiculous laws, I'd take any such statistics with a gigantic shovel of salt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Given what we know about the Julian Assange case and Sweden's ridiculous laws, I'd take any such statistics with a gigantic shovel of salt.

    Bloke accused of 2 sexual assaults/rape runs and hides in an embassy /add the thousand his apparent former fans / supporters have lost paying his bail bonds
    Top bloke that asange chap ,


  • Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People don't riot because they're immigrants. They riot because they're poor and feel excluded.

    You only start trashing stuff once you feel you've nothing left to lose.

    Like the Love Ulster Parade in 2006? Or London recently? Or multiple football related riots. Lots of people riot just because they are opportunistic thugs. This social exclusion isn't always applicable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,352 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I thought Sweden was always held up as the perfect example of the perfect country and perfect society, a place where everyone is so happy and they have everything they need.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I thought Sweden was always held up as the perfect example of the perfect country and perfect society, a place where everyone is so happy and they have everything they need.


    ...but they needed a riot....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    I thought Sweden was always held up as the perfect example of the perfect country and perfect society, a place where everyone is so happy and they have everything they need.

    I must admit, there does seem to be a massive bias favoring Sweden. The right seem to support them because of their fiscal management, and the left becuase of their welfare, imo.


  • Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    .....Riots occur in countries, Britain has tons of them and those responsible were white British people. Student protests gone wrong and looting of London the year before last....

    white people are responsible for rioting?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Immigrant, non-whites causing trouble in a civilized country? Well I never...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Immigrant, non-whites causing trouble in a civilized country? Well I never...


    Thanks. A lot of the time I have to go through a long boring processn trying to work out where somebody is coming from.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Nodin wrote: »
    Thanks. A lot of the time I have to go through a long boring processn trying to work out where somebody is coming from.

    Thankfully,I was fastracked !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I thought Sweden was always held up as the perfect example of the perfect country and perfect society, a place where everyone is so happy and they have everything they need.

    They had a great country everything was wonderful and then they got bored and invited people from the 3rd world in to experience their efficient, low crime fair society. And surprise surprise it isn't working.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Nodin wrote: »
    Thanks. A lot of the time I have to go through a long boring processn trying to work out where somebody is coming from.

    I never have to worry about whether Nodin comes into these kinda threads.


    Anyway, yes, riots in Sweden.

    I blame whitey. As I do for riots in India, Pakistan and China. .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    And London. Largely it was a muti ethnic group of rioters but the problem was whitey.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Not on wiki yet, Sweden is only mentioned twice.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

    BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22637343

    Ingrid Carlqvist, the Editor-in-chief of the newspaper Dispatch International http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTz3GrXQAk8

    AlJazeera http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koMRz3jjyi0


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    Sweden does a good Eurovision.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭Marathon Man


    People don't riot because they're immigrants. They riot because they're poor and feel excluded.

    You only start trashing stuff once you feel you've nothing left to lose.

    Sweden has a very very generous benefit system. Even if it didn't there are poor people across the world who don't riot. There has to be another cause.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sweden has a very very generous benefit system. Even if it didn't there are poor people across the world who don't riot. There has to be another cause.

    Actually they've been cutting welfare for the last few years and who's entitled to said welfare


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Gatling wrote: »
    Actually they've been cutting welfare for the last few years and who's entitled to said welfare

    I bet they didn't pick on the whites. Racists.


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