The Hazards of Belief

robindch · 20-05-2013 10:46AM

The Pew Forum investigates acceptance of evolution in countries where islam is a major religion:

http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Forum wrote:

The greatest level of acceptance of evolution was in Kazakhstan (79%), Lebanon (78%), and the Palestinian territories (67%); the lowest level was in Afghanistan (26%), Iraq (27%), and Pakistan (30%). The global median was 53%.

Penn · 20-05-2013 11:36AM

Has there ever been a survey of what percentage Irish people believe evolution/creationism?

oldrnwisr · 20-05-2013 11:46AM

Penn wrote: »

Has there ever been a survey of what percentage Irish people believe evolution/creationism?

Yup.

Public acceptance of evolution

SebBerkovich · 20-05-2013 11:49AM

Scandinavia... in the European family they are the over achieving cousins, who don't even have the decency to be smug about it.

Penn · 20-05-2013 11:57AM

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Yup.

Public acceptance of evolution

Thanks for that. We're not doing too badly then all things considered.

Galvasean · 20-05-2013 01:28PM

Penn wrote: »

Thanks for that. We're not doing too badly then all things considered.

By my reading, about 20% identified the statement as being false. In other words, 1 in 5 Irish people have a strong disbelief in the theory of evolution. For a supposedly enlightened first world country that's pretty bad to be honest.
It'd be interesting to see age breakdowns. I (like to) assume those who answered 'false' would have been of the OAP variety.

endacl · 20-05-2013 01:30PM

Galvasean wrote: »

By my reading, about 20% identified the statement as being false. In other words, 1 in 5 Irish people have a strong disbelief in the theory of evolution. For a supposedly enlightened first world country that's pretty bad to be honest.
It'd be interesting to see age breakdowns. I (like to) assume those who answered 'false' would have been of the OAP variety.

More like the DOAP variety.

Galvasean · 20-05-2013 01:32PM

DOAP? Dementia-Old-Age-Pensioners?

Penn · 20-05-2013 01:33PM

Galvasean wrote: »

For a supposedly enlightened first world country that's pretty bad to be honest.

I don't disagree, and we are obviously where the curve is going downwards, but at the same time you'd have to consider the USA to be an "enlightened first world country" too and look where they are. While we're definitely located the wrong end of where the curve starts to go downwards, percentage-wise we're not that much worse than the top few countries (10-15%)

Galvasean · 20-05-2013 01:38PM

I suppose when you consider that evolution was pretty much unheard of in Irish schools during my parents' generation we aren't doing too bad I guess. It'd be interesting to see how much it shifts in the next 20-30 years.

Bannasidhe · 20-05-2013 01:45PM

Once questioned my long-suffering Christian OH (oh how I torment her with questions

) if she believed the Bible was the word of God. She said 'yes' so I asked if she believed the account given of the creation was correct..slight hesitation then a tentative 'yes' - in with 'explain dinosaurs then'!

Do you believe the Bible is correct?
'Yes.'
Do you believe dinosaurs existed?
'Yes.'
Do you believe dinosaurs lived on Earth before humans?
'Yes.'
So the Earth existed before humans came into existence?
'....yes...'
What about neanderthals - do you believe they existed?
'Oh, yes. Absolutely.'

Talk me through that so.
'....shuddup....'

OH has now reconsidered her position...:cool:

Quite simply she hadn't thought about it - I think like many Irish Catlicks (although she no longer calls herself 'catlick' and has become quite anti-RCC) she compartmentalises it all.

It's that good old cognitive dissonance again.

endacl · 20-05-2013 02:07PM

Galvasean wrote: »

DOAP? Dementia-Old-Age-Pensioners?

Alternate spelling of 'dope'.

robindch · 21-05-2013 10:56AM

The new people says that "annoying" people and being a "nuisance" makes baby Jesus happy, and that propagating his religion "implies an element of madness".

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-if-we-annoy-people-blessed-be-the-lord/

CNA wrote:

Vatican City, May 16, 2013 / 10:40 am (CNA/EWTN News).- The Pope told Christians it is better to be “annoying” and “a nuisance” than lukewarm in proclaiming Jesus Christ.

“If we annoy people, blessed be the Lord,” said Pope Francis during his morning Mass at the Vatican on May 16. “We can ask the Holy Spirit to give us all this apostolic fervor and to give us the grace to be annoying when things are too quiet in the Church,” he said at the chapel of the Saint Martha residence, where he lives.

He celebrated the Mass alongside Cardinal Peter Turkson and Bishop Mario Toso, the president and the secretary of the Vatican Council for Justice and Peace. Council staff and employees from Vatican Radio were among those attending the Eucharistic celebration.

The Pope preached on today’s first reading from Acts 22 and contrasted “backseat Christians” with those who have apostolic zeal. “There are those who are well mannered, who do everything well, but are unable to bring people to the Church through proclamation and apostolic zeal,” he stated.

The pontiff said apostolic zeal “implies an element of madness,” which he labeled as “healthy” and “spiritual.” He added that it “can only be understood in an atmosphere of love” and that it is not an “enthusiasm for power and possession.”

Pope Francis also dwelt on St. Paul’s actions in the reading from Acts. “Paul, in preaching of the Lord, was a nuisance, but he had deep within him that most Christian of attitudes, apostolic zeal,” he stated.

“He was not a man of compromise, no!” he exclaimed. “The truth, forward! The proclamation of Jesus Christ, forward!” The Pope noted that St. Paul’s fate was one “with many crosses, but he keeps going, he looks to the Lord and keeps going.”

“He is a man who, with his preaching, his work, his attitude irritates others, because testifying to Jesus Christ and the proclamation of Jesus Christ makes us uncomfortable. “It threatens our comfort zones, even Christian comfort zones, right?” he asked the congregation. “It irritates us.”

Pope Francis underscored that the Lord “always wants us to move forward, forward, forward, not to take refuge in a quiet life or in cozy structures.” Saint Paul’s apostolic zeal, he observed, comes from knowing Jesus Christ.

Paul did not find and encounter Jesus Christ with an intellectual or scientific knowledge, but with “that first knowledge of the heart and of a personal encounter.” According to the Pope, St. Paul was a “fiery” individual who was always in trouble, “not in trouble for troubles’ sake, but for Jesus” because “proclaiming Jesus is the consequence.”

“The Church has so much need of this, not only in distant lands, in the young churches, among people who do not know Jesus Christ, but here in the cities, in our cities, they need this proclamation of Jesus Christ,” Pope Francis stressed. “So let us ask the Holy Spirit for this grace of apostolic zeal, let’s be Christians with apostolic zeal, onwards, as the Lord says to Paul, take courage!” he exclaimed.

Sarky · 21-05-2013 12:51PM

Sh*t. That's dangerous stuff there. "C'mon folks, it's ok to be mentally unbalanced as long as it's for Jesus! ESPECIALLY if you fling it in the faces of anyone you think is less righteous than you! Be a zealot!"

Pherekydes · 21-05-2013 02:58PM

I wonder what he'd say if some zealot interrupted his Easter mass with a megaphone, shouting "Jesus loves you"?

Along the lines of "Will somebody go and shut that ****er up", I'd imagine.

joseph brand · 21-05-2013 05:52PM

The Pope told Christians it is better to be “annoying” and “a nuisance” than lukewarm in proclaiming Jesus Christ.

“If we annoy people, blessed be the Lord,” said Pope FrancisPaul did not find and encounter Jesus Christ with an intellectual or scientific knowledge, but with “that first knowledge of the heart

As usual, he speaks in ambiguous and nebulous waffle.

swampgas · 21-05-2013 08:41PM

robindch wrote: »

The new people says that "annoying" people and being a "nuisance" makes baby Jesus happy, and that propagating his religion "implies an element of madness".

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-if-we-annoy-people-blessed-be-the-lord/

Well, I think there's plenty of truth to the "element of madness" angle.

Personally I prefer dealing with religious nutters who are up front about their insane beliefs, it makes the craziness more obvious, and provokes more thought amongst cultural Catholics. It's a pity the various Catholic clergymen who appeared at the Oireachtas commission a few months back weren't a bit more swivel-eyed. A bit of fire and brimstone and quoting from the Bible would have (IMO) been a far more accurate and truthful representation of their real beliefs, instead of hiding behind a load of waffle about "natural law".

joseph brand · 22-05-2013 01:08AM

Right-wing writer shoots himself dead at altar of Notre Dame after marriage equality passes.

Police and his publisher confirmed the man’s identity as Dominique Venner, 78, a long-time essayist and activist linked with France’s far-right and nationalist groups.
In a final essay on his website Tuesday, he railed against France’s adoption of a law legalising gay marriage and adoption, urging activists to take measures to protect “French and European identities”.

That'll show em.

seamus · 22-05-2013 08:11AM

"If I commit suicide in a very public manner, they'll have to rethink everything about equality"

Conservative French artist in inflated sense of self-importance shocker.

biko · 22-05-2013 06:12PM

Islamist "public beheading" of British soldier in Woolwich, London
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10073910/Soldier-beheaded-in-Islamist-terror-attack-oustide-barracks-in-Woolwich.html

joseph brand · 22-05-2013 07:17PM

biko wrote: »

Islamist "public beheading" of British soldier in Woolwich, London
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10073910/Soldier-beheaded-in-Islamist-terror-attack-oustide-barracks-in-Woolwich.html

Photos of the suspect. Bloody hands and a couple of knives. :eek:

PopePalpatine · 22-05-2013 07:48PM

If I were the guy taking pictures of the killer, I'd be shítting myself. :eek:

PopePalpatine · 22-05-2013 08:21PM

I think this is more hazardous than funny:

I'm worried that I can think of a handful of users on t'udder forum who'd probably agree with this oxygen-waster.

endacl · 22-05-2013 08:51PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I think this is more hazardous than funny:

I'm worried that I can think of a handful of users on t'udder forum who'd probably agree with this oxygen-waster.

While holygod's intentions are good, his aim has always been a bit iffy.

kiffer · 22-05-2013 10:43PM

No no you see the children were innocents so have gone straight to heaven but the sex offenders would go to hell if they died without repenting... see God is actually being merciful by calling home the children before the world has a chance to corrupt them and is giving the sinners a chance to repent... ok so some children die horrible painful deaths but um... mysterious ways...

Galvasean · 22-05-2013 11:28PM

kiffer wrote: »

No no you see the children were innocents so have gone straight to heaven but the sex offenders would go to hell if they died without repenting... see God is actually being merciful by calling home the children before the world has a chance to corrupt them and is giving the sinners a chance to repent... ok so some children die horrible painful deaths but um... mysterious ways...

The pain is so the can appreciate the bliss of heaven more. *DERP*

robindch · 23-05-2013 09:26AM

A religious couple kill a second child:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22633937

Their other children have -- unsurprisingly -- been taken into care.

Nodin · 23-05-2013 01:59PM

robindch wrote: »

A religious couple kill a second child:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22633937

Their other children have -- unsurprisingly -- been taken into care.

The couple are members of the First Century Gospel Church, which shuns measures
such as toothpaste and seatbelts, the Philadelphia Inquirer newspaper reported.

...obviously a hive of intellectuals......

Sarky · 23-05-2013 02:13PM

Am I alone in actually being a little surprised that child services took over? I recall not long ago there was a story of some religious couple losing a second child to prayer over medical intervention, I was beginning to think everybody just gets a slap on the wrist the first time...

23-05-2013 03:37PM

Sarky wrote: »

Am I alone in actually being a little surprised that child services took over? I recall not long ago there was a story of some religious couple losing a second child to prayer over medical intervention, I was beginning to think everybody just gets a slap on the wrist the first time...

Same couple, this is an update of it

Also

The couple are members of the First Century Gospel Church, which shuns measures such as toothpaste

TOOTHPASTE
wat

The Hazards of Belief

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