The Hazards of Belief

robindch

robindch wrote: »

A religious couple kill a second child:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22633937

Turns out that it may be a lot worse than that:

It seems that families attending two churches in Philadelphia -- the one involved above, together with another one -- have lost twenty-four children over the last forty-odd years in what may be similar circumstances:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Faith-Healing-Churches-Linked-to-Two-Dozen-Child-Deaths-208745201.html

endacl

robindch wrote: »

Turns out that it may be a lot worse than that:

It seems that families attending two churches in Philadelphia -- the one involved above, together with another one -- have lost twenty-four children over the last forty-odd years in what may be similar circumstances:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Faith-Healing-Churches-Linked-to-Two-Dozen-Child-Deaths-208745201.html

See? Evidence of evolution by natural selection! Those churches won't last more than a few generations.

SebBerkovich

endacl wrote: »

See? Evidence of evolution by natural selection! Those churches won't last more than a few generations.

It's unfair to the children to include them of part of that religion. They had the misfortune of being left in the care of people who should never have been let attempt to raise children.

kiffer

endacl wrote: »

See? Evidence of evolution by natural selection! Those churches won't last more than a few generations.

They are probably also a quiver full type group as well. So while the might lose a child or two but they'll have another 8... so in the long run they'll out breed groups that only have 2.4 children per woman.

robindch

Well, ladies, here's a list of ten things that our great little nation wouldn't allow women to do back in 1970:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/57301/ten-things-an-irish-
woman-could-not-do-in-1970-and-be-prepared-to-cringe

A woman couldn't:

1. Keep her job in the public service or a bank when she got married
2. Sit on a jury
3. Buy contraceptives
4. Drink a pint in a pub
5. Collect her children's allowance
6. Get a barring order against a violent partner
7. Live securely in her family home
8. Refuse to have sex with her husband
9. Choose her official place of domicile
10. Get the same rate for a job as a man

Sulla Felix

robindch wrote: »

Well, ladies, here's a list of ten things that our great little nation wouldn't allow women to do back in 1970:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/57301/ten-things-an-irish-
woman-could-not-do-in-1970-and-be-prepared-to-cringe

A woman couldn't:

1. Keep her job in the public service or a bank when she got married
2. Sit on a jury
3. Buy contraceptives
4. Drink a pint in a pub
5. Collect her children's allowance
6. Get a barring order against a violent partner
7. Live securely in her family home
8. Refuse to have sex with her husband
9. Choose her official place of domicile
10. Get the same rate for a job as a man

Well, we've nine of the ten fairly well accounted for. Number 10 still needs a bit of work afaik?

endacl

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Well, we've nine of the ten fairly well accounted for. Number 10 still needs a bit of work afaik?

I know. I wish I made as much as some of my female friends.

kiffer

endacl wrote: »

I know. I wish I made as much as some of my female friends.

I'm told that uk women in their20s are earning a few percent more than men in their 20s on average... I wonder how accurate that is.
I imagine it's probably a mix of the downturn in construction work and higher rates of unemployment in men?...

Cossax

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Well, we've nine of the ten fairly well accounted for. Number 10 still needs a bit of work afaik?

No, I wish this stat, when presented, was given some context.

Women earn x% less than men, on average. That doesn't mean they earn less for the same work, it means all women's earnings put together compared to all men's earnings are lower. This is due to a number of factors - entering lower-paying jobs (say a nurse compared to a Garda, cashier compared to a builder or similar), part time jobs (to be free to mind kids) and missing out on potential promotions due to breaks in their career for maternity leave.

Where women are young and childless, they do indeed earn more than men (certainly in the US and I'm sure I've seen similar stats for either here or the UK).

endacl

kiffer wrote: »

I'm told that uk women in their20s are earning a few percent more than men in their 20s on average... I wonder how accurate that is.
I imagine it's probably a mix of the downturn in construction work and higher rates of unemployment in men?...

Hey, I also wish I earned as much as some of my male friends...

Galvasean

I wish I earned money all of the time

Delirium

Russia moves closer to jail terms for offending religion

(Reuters) - Russian lawmakers on Tuesday took a step toward imposing jail terms for offending religious feelings, approving legislation proposed after punk band Pussy Riot performed a raucous protest song in Moscow's main Orthodox Christian cathedral.

Critics say the bill will give government-approved religious groups protection others lack and blur the line between church and state under President Vladimir Putin, who has advocated a strong societal role for the Russian Orthodox Church.

Genghiz Cohen

endacl wrote: »

I know. I wish I made as much as some of my female friends.

Girlfriend got taxed nearly as much as I earned last month

SebBerkovich

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Girlfriend got taxed nearly as much as I earned last month

Have yourselves declared a religion - Tax problem, solved!

Bannasidhe

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Have yourselves declared a religion - Tax problem, solved!

No - he should have his girlfriend declared a religion.

Turtwig

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No - he should have his girlfriend declared a religion.

That would either be no fun or very very creepy.

SebBerkovich

Jernal wrote: »

That would either be no fun or very very creepy.

Yeah, but when you're in the company of worshipers of a magic zombie jew perhaps worshiping a lady who pays too much tax is fairly normal.

Sulla Felix

Cossax wrote: »

No, I wish this stat, when presented, was given some context.

Women earn x% less than men, on average. That doesn't mean they earn less for the same work, it means all women's earnings put together compared to all men's earnings are lower. This is due to a number of factors - entering lower-paying jobs (say a nurse compared to a Garda, cashier compared to a builder or similar), part time jobs (to be free to mind kids) and missing out on potential promotions due to breaks in their career for maternity leave.

Where women are young and childless, they do indeed earn more than men (certainly in the US and I'm sure I've seen similar stats for either here or the UK).

Well colour me red. I presumed people were comparing like with like, not the population as a w whole
.

Galvasean

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Well colour me red. I presumed people were comparing like with like, not the population as a w whole
.

It's a very common misconception - knowingly repeated by certain pressure groupsuntil it appears to be fact as far as the public is concerned.

robindch

Leslie Stevenson, who was due to be made the CofI's Bishop of Meath and Kildare, announced that he is declining the appointment as he had an affair in 1999.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/archdeacon-declines-appointment-as-bishop-of-meath-and-kildare-1.1375817

I don't recall too many catholic bishops resigning over past transgressions.

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

I don't recall too many catholic bishops resigning over past transgressions.

I don't recall too many catholic bishops admitting to past transgressions.

robindch

In Medjugorje, an open-minded former yoga-teacher finds truth, and a demonic infestation irritated by sanctity.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/my-date-with-the-devil-in-medjugorje-232541.html

Irish Examiner wrote:

The body was thrashing; it took six men to control its charged strength. The crowd was praying feverishly in Italian, ‘Santa Maria, prega per noi.’ Those words now etched in my memory. I had gone with an open mind to Medjugorje, Bosnia Herzegovina, where Our Lady has been appearing to six visionaries for the past 32 years. But I wasn’t expecting to meet the devil.

I was wandering by St James’ Church, where millions of pilgrims attend beautiful masses and prayer services, when I stumbled upon an exorcism. I pushed my head in through the crowd. It was a horror show I will never forget. The priest was bent over an Italian woman, aged in her 30s, whose face was contorted in rage.

Her lips were pulled back as she bared her teeth, hissing, straining, snarling and writhing. The priest had the bible in one hand, reciting scripture. With his other hand, the priest repeatedly made the sign of the cross on the woman’s forehead. Another, younger priest was administering holy water for the woman to drink. Her pupils were so dilated that her eyes were pools of black. Her hands were clawing at the air, the fingers curled and poised to scratch.

The scene was so grotesque and disturbing that a number of those praying were crying. I had to fight back the tears myself. As if to rally each other against this diabolical enemy, the crowd formed a circle of prayer, holding hands. There I was, in the middle of it, frightened out of my wits, yet utterly intrigued by this ancient ritual in action.

The demon inside hissed and seethed every time the crowd blessed the woman with holy water. The demon alternated that frightening sound with abusive cursing of its tormentors, the priests, uttered through its diabolical, other-worldly gurgling. The woman’s face relaxed a little and she joined in the recital of the Rosary with those around her. The tension eased slightly. We were all praying, literally, for her deliverance. “Prega per noi,” she said.

And then, out of nowhere, the woman’s neck muscles stretched and strained, pushing her head right into the priest’s face, the lips curled back, the teeth bared and this blood-curdling, hideous laugh emerged as if to say ‘fooled you.’ I found the whole thing so disturbing that I wondered what would become of this woman. How long would this process take? After 30 minutes or so (I had missed the previous two hours), the demon subsided, the woman’s body went limp, and the priests placed her in a seated position on a nearby bench. She looked dazed and confused, like someone coming-to after fainting. Exhausted, she began to cry.

Among the crowd, a teenage boy was so traumatised he burst into tears. The rest of us departed slowly, shocked and deeply disturbed by what we had seen. All that night, I couldn’t remove those images from my head. Recalling the screeching voice sent shivers down my spine. There has been much speculation that the Pope performed an exorcism on a wheelchair-bound boy, at St Peter’s Square, earlier last week. It may have been a deliverance. Any kind of blessing serves the purpose of driving away evil. The Vatican and the Church play down the ritual of exorcism, perhaps to not frighten believers and not attract more bad press.

But in Medjugorje, where Our Lady is welcomed with respectful silence everyday at 6.40pm, instances of possession and deliverance are common. “Wherever Our Lady is present, so is the devil,” I’m told by experienced visitors to Medjugorje. Demons in pilgrims become enraged in the holy presence of Jesus and the Virgin Mary, as if they cannot bear the sanctity.

Some forms of exorcism are straightforward, such as deliverance, perhaps from a chronic addiction or other, debilitating behaviour. Instances of demonic possession can be drawn out and dramatic and can continue for days. When I ask what a person may have done to attract a demonic infestation, the answers vary, but the occult, I am told, particularly ouija boards, are significant dangers.
This sends me scurrying to confession. I believe in God and I go to mass. I pray and live a good life, though I am not always successful.

But stumbling into the midst of something so disturbing changes a person’s perspective. Experiencing the hellish wrath of that demon had a profound effect. I went to Medjugorje for one week and stayed for three. I had previously travelled the world seeking spiritual truth, staying at a Hindu ashram in Nepal, with Buddhist monks in the Himalayas, and lapping up the generous ethos of Islam in the Middle East and Indonesia.

I trained as a yoga teacher in India, moved to a cottage in the countryside in West Cork, and took part in some punishing pilgrimages at Lough Derg. But nowhere else have I found the sense of peace, light and love that exists in Medjugorje. Miracles abound every day there; personal, life-changing miracles. Catholicism, with all its sacraments and sacred rituals, is celebrated.

Thousands kneel and pray before the Blessed Sacrament during the outdoor ‘holy hour’ in the basilica, yet you can hear a pin drop, such is the level of reverence. Adults are routinely reduced to tears, sometimes great wracking sobs, as an understanding of years of pent-up pain and frustration is realised, the first step in healing. I became a junkie for holy hour in Medjugorje, watching siblings, couples, friends, and families embrace in love as the 60 minutes drew to a close. In a world brimful of lies and deceit, I found the truth in Medjugorje.

And the truth is that the devil does exist, he’s just very good at duping people into thinking he doesn’t.

recedite

But in Medjugorje, where Our Lady is welcomed with respectful silence everyday at 6.40pm, instances of possession and deliverance are common. “Wherever Our Lady is present, so is the devil,” I’m told by experienced visitors to Medjugorje. Demons in pilgrims become enraged in the holy presence of Jesus and the Virgin Mary, as if they cannot bear the sanctity.

I've been there, done that. Its not as exciting as they make out though. Everyone walked up to the top of the local hill, where "our lady" appeared at the appointed hour. Nobody saw anything of course. Then gradually people started drifting back down again, very quietly, as nobody could tell whether the event was over or not. Then the next day, some people said they had "felt the presence" of our lady. I suppose the odd pilgrim goes a bit further and does the old demonic shudder, but sadly I didn't see anyone doing it. Nice area though; I enjoyed wandering around the lanes picking and eating grapes at the roadside, and there is probably one of the world's greatest collections of Wackos to be seen there.

kiffer

"Men think epilepsy divine, merely because they do not understand it. But if they called everything divine which they do not understand, why, there would be no end to divine things.”
Hippocrates ~400 BC

Poor person, I'm sure it's bad enough to come out of a fit without some strangers chanting at you and people holding you down trying to make you drink.

robindch

Al-Qaeda does office politics:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/05/28/al-qaeda-north-africa-moktar-belmoktar.html

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Well, ladies, here's a list of ten things that our great little nation wouldn't allow women to do back in 1970:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/57301/ten-things-an-irish-
woman-could-not-do-in-1970-and-be-prepared-to-cringe

A woman couldn't:

1. Keep her job in the public service or a bank when she got married
2. Sit on a jury
3. Buy contraceptives But neither could men. It's not just a woman's responsibility, eh, EH?
4. Drink a pint in a pub
5. Collect her children's allowance
6. Get a barring order against a violent partner
7. Live securely in her family home
8. Refuse to have sex with her husband
9. Choose her official place of domicile
10. Get the same rate for a job as a man

My mother had a decent civil service job in the 1960s, had to resign on marriage. On proof of widowhood or desertion (widowhood in her case) she got her job back in 1986.. had to pay back the gratuity she got on being kicked out in the 60s though :rolleyes:

joseph brand

robindch wrote: »

Well, ladies, here's a list of ten things that our great little nation wouldn't allow women to do back in 1970:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/57301/ten-things-an-irish-
woman-could-not-do-in-1970-and-be-prepared-to-cringe

A woman couldn't:

1. Keep her job in the public service or a bank when she got married
2. Sit on a jury
3. Buy contraceptives
4. Drink a pint in a pub
5. Collect her children's allowance
6. Get a barring order against a violent partner
7. Live securely in her family home
8. Refuse to have sex with her husband
9. Choose her official place of domicile
10. Get the same rate for a job as a man

This can't be true. I was told that the old days were simple, everyone knew each other, the sun always shone and the locks on people's front doors were made out of paper.

wench

They'll need to hand out something stronger than just tea with this line-up...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/06/05/body-and-soul-line-up/

Sarky

The comments section is far better there:

John Waters posing like Shirley Temple. Boop boop a boop.

His rendition of “On the Good Ship Lollipop” is transcendent…nobody rocks a gingham pinafore like Waters…

“The good ship Lollipop was a personification of our fantasies, of our sense of how sweet we were becoming, of how short a trip we might have to the candy shop. She was perhaps the most spectacular candy vessel on the ocean, a schooner of sugary desire ploughing through the brine of the Irish zeitgeist to our own personal Peppermint Bay. I am crying as I write this.”

Don’t tell that woman on the Twitter, but “RTE falls for Iona bore” is an anagram of “Free Abortions For All”.

robindch

wench wrote: »

They'll need to hand out something stronger than just tea with this line-up.

Ye gods -- what would the Church do if Satan caused the roof to cave in?