Locals to be asked to pay for road maintenance

zenno · 20-05-2013 12:48pm #1

Irish Times.

Locals to be asked to pay for road maintenance

Up to 50% of cost or labour involved in repairs may come from local communities.

Local communities are to be asked to contribute up to half the cost of repairs to their roads, as part of a State-wide scheme being promoted by the Government.

Under a pilot programme announced by Minister for State Alan Kelly this morning, the Government is providing €10.6 million which has been matched by almost €4 million of private money.

The announcement follows comments from Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar in March that no regional or local road improvements will take place for “the next couple of years”.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/locals-to-be-asked-to-pay-for-road-maintenance-1.1400076

This is crazy. Why are we even bothering paying road tax when the money is not being used to fix and maintain the roads, isn't that the whole point of paying road tax ?.

Now they want us to pay more money to have our roads fixed even though we pay a fortune in road tax for this exact reason. Why pay it if the money is not being used as it was intended to be used.

pred racer · 20-05-2013 12:54pm

Some pedantic so 'n so will be along shortly to tell you its 'motor tax' and not specifically for roads;)

This happens already, in remote rural areas (like where I live) the only way to get smaller roads fixed is to pay up to half yourself.

Makes you wonder why we pay tax, when you have to pay again for any service or amenity:rolleyes:

SC Kevin · 20-05-2013 12:56pm

So there asking us to help with fix the roads...i think ill ask can i have a reduction in my road tax so

MetzgerMeister · 20-05-2013 12:59pm

pred racer wrote: »

Some pedantic so 'n so will be along shortly to tell you its 'motor tax' and not specifically for roads;)

But it IS motor tax which goes into the government coffers along with every other tax we pay. It was never specifically there to pay for the maintenance of roads, only to increase the government's intake of revenue.

Nothing at all pedantic about saying this because a lot of people get confused!

padma · 20-05-2013 1:00pm

they call it motor tax nowadays, although saying that, they can ask all they want they wont be getting any more moola from me.

BGozIE · 20-05-2013 1:02pm

Not a chance i'll be paying anything else to those shower, were getting screwed as it is, what more do they expect from people.

pred racer · 20-05-2013 1:05pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

But it IS motor tax which goes into the government coffers along with every other tax we pay. It was never specifically there to pay for the maintenance of roads.

Told ya:D

The point is MM, with all the taxes everyone pays, (im sure I dont have to list them for you:p ) why should we have to pay again just to have the roads in reasonable shape

zenno · 20-05-2013 1:06pm

Does anyone have the figures on how much per annum 'total' is made from the intake of road tax/motor tax ?.

Victor · 20-05-2013 1:08pm

I don't think this is anything radically different to previous. For a long time, residents of minor rural roads have been required to part finance works - If there are only 3 houses on a 1km rural road that servces nobody else, why should everyone pay to faciliate something that is of utility to a limited few. With the Grafton Street improvement works, not only are the businesses in the area paying rates (about 5 times higher than the Local Property Tax), and paying for the Business Improvement District, but they are also contributing directly to the works.

zenno wrote: »

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/locals-to-be-asked-to-pay-for-road-maintenance-1.1400076

This is crazy. Why are we even bothering paying road tax when the money is not being used to fix and maintain the roads, isn't that the whole point of paying road tax ?.

You would have a point if you paid road tax. However, you pay Motor Tax, something which, along with fuel duty, is designed to discourage excessive fuel usage and fuel imports.

Now they want us to pay more money to have our roads fixed even though we pay a fortune in road tax for this exact reason. Why pay it if the money is not being used as it was intended to be used.

Motor Tax goes to the Local Government Fund for general council expenditure, it isn't allocated specifically for roads.

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

But it IS motor tax which goes into the government coffers along with every other tax we pay.

For the last 10-15 years, it only goes to councils, not government.

zenno wrote: »

Does anyone have the figures on how much per annum 'total' is made from the intake of road tax/motor tax ?.

See my posts on the matter in previous 'Road Tax / Motor Tax' threads

djimi · 20-05-2013 1:12pm

Wasnt the idea behind the property tax that it was to go to the local authorities for purposes just like this?

daenerysstormborn3 · 20-05-2013 1:13pm

We do pay "motor tax" and this tax goes into a big fund from which money is allocated towards different things, including maintenance of our roads, so the OP and countless others do have a point when they say they pay their "motor tax" and expect something in return.

Eric Cartman · 20-05-2013 1:17pm

how about we take the workphobic people bleeding us dry down the dole office and put them to work on the roads, that could solve the problem

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2013 1:18pm

pred racer wrote: »

Told ya:D

The point is MM, with all the taxes everyone pays, (im sure I dont have to list them for you:p ) why should we have to pay again just to have the roads in reasonable shape

If we're taking that line why should we pay again for anything? I pay income tax , so surely I shouldnt have to pay for anything after tha

zenno · 20-05-2013 1:23pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

how about we take the workphobic people bleeding us dry down the dole office and put them to work on the roads, that could solve the problem

Ohh, that's a coming down the road. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

challengemaster · 20-05-2013 1:24pm

If they stopped making the roads out of jelly it would actually save a fortune. How many times a year do the CoCo dump some gravel into a hole and pay it down to 'fix' the road

joujoujou · 20-05-2013 1:24pm

pixiebean22 wrote: »

We do pay "motor tax" and this tax goes into a big fund from which money is allocated towards different things, including maintenance of our roads, so the OP and countless others do have a point when they say they pay their "motor tax" and expect something in return.

Expect more taxes to pay.

MetzgerMeister · 20-05-2013 2:35pm

challengemaster wrote: »

If they stopped making the roads out of jelly it would actually save a fortune. How many times a year do the CoCo dump some gravel into a hole and pay it down to 'fix' the road

And this gravel ends up chipping paint on cars as soon as the next car drives over it. It has happened to me several times!

corktina · 20-05-2013 2:47pm

well, if that contribution could be made in terms of labour, then I'm sure many unemployed persons would be glad of the work....the Community pays local labour to mend local roads...it's not all bad!

big break · 20-05-2013 2:56pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

how about we take the workphobic people bleeding us dry down the dole office and put them to work on the roads, that could solve the problem

Ok.
Step 1 get everyone on the dole to give 15 hours a week to fixing roads.
Step 2 Sack all the road fixers.
Step 3 Old road fixers go on the dole.
Step 4 ??????!??
Step 5 profit?

I find this facinating but I missed step 4. Could you go over that again.

mfceiling · 20-05-2013 2:58pm

Victor wrote: »

I don't think this is anything radically different to previous. For a long time, residents of minor rural roads have been required to part finance works - If there are only 3 houses on a 1km rural road that servces nobody else, why should everyone pay to faciliate something that is of utility to a limited few. With the Grafton Street improvement works, not only are the businesses in the area paying rates (about 5 times higher than the Local Property Tax), and paying for the Business Improvement District, but they are also contributing directly to the works.

You would have a point if you paid road tax. However, you pay Motor Tax, something which, along with fuel duty, is designed to discourage excessive fuel usage and fuel imports.

Motor Tax goes to the Local Government Fund for general council expenditure, it isn't allocated specifically for roads.

For the last 10-15 years, it only goes to councils, not government.

See my posts on the matter in previous
'Road Tax / Motor Tax' threads

To be honest you could argue that I should pay less road tax than you because I don't drive as much or you should pay less for your fuel because your mileage is higher than mine.

We all pay tax regardless of how fair it is or who benefits most from it.

msg11 · 20-05-2013 3:03pm

Whatever about the roads having holes in them. I am more worried about the vanishing/fading road markings on some roads, some drivers at the best of times hardly use them it's now getting to the stage where some roads are a free for all then add in a bit of rain and it's like a driving in India.

galwaytt · 20-05-2013 3:07pm

pixiebean22 wrote: »

We do pay "motor tax" and this tax goes into a big fund from which money is allocated towards different things, including maintenance of our roads, so the OP and countless others do have a point when they say they pay their "motor tax" and expect something in return.

Yes, and I would think the amount of 'motor tax' exceeds the amount spent on roads, so there is no reason why roads can't be maintained within it.

It'd be interesting to see the exact numbers.

Eric Cartman · 20-05-2013 3:15pm

big break wrote: »

Ok.
Step 1 get everyone on the dole to give 15 hours a week to fixing roads.
Step 2 Sack all the road fixers.
Step 3 Old road fixers go on the dole.
Step 4 ??????!??
Step 5 profit?

I find this facinating but I missed step 4. Could you go over that again.

step 1 ) get people on the dole to fix the roads in their area for 20-30 hours a week
step 2 ) we werent going to pay the paid workers to fix the roads anyway so their level of work is unchanged
step 3 ) roads get fixed accross the country and I actually get some value for my tax money
step 4 ) some of these people who now have training in road repair could go on to get jobs doing it full time, lessening my tax burdon and freeing up more money to pay for roads to be fixed.

MetzgerMeister · 20-05-2013 3:19pm

That's all well and good but I guarantee you, there will be some red tape whereby the people on the dole will need to have special training before they're allowed work on the roads. The "value for money" aspect goes out the window when you consider that tax money will pay for this training.

Eric Cartman · 20-05-2013 3:24pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

That's all well and good but I guarantee you, there will be some red tape whereby the people on the dole will need to have special training before they're allowed work on the roads. The "value for money" aspect goes out the window when you consider that tax money will pay for this training.

sure we already pay for them to do fas courses anyway, and im sure theres a few roadbuilders on the dole at present too.

MetzgerMeister · 20-05-2013 3:25pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

sure we already pay for them to do fas courses anyway, and im sure theres a few roadbuilders on the dole at present too.

Nah, they're all over in Spain and other EU countries building their motorway networks :P

big break · 20-05-2013 3:26pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

step 1 ) get people on the dole to fix the roads in their area for 20-30 hours a week
step 2 ) we werent going to pay the paid workers to fix the roads anyway so their level of work is unchanged
step 3 ) roads get fixed accross the country and I actually get some value for my tax money
step 4 ) some of these people who now have training in road repair could go on to get jobs doing it full time, lessening my tax burdon and freeing up more money to pay for roads to be fixed.

What would the insurance and prsi , training costs be when you factor in giving so many people such few hours?
Would the money be there to pay for materials and transport ?
Do you just want to bash people out of work?
What about road fixers who are unemployed? Should they now work for their social welfare?
If you , after paying stamps for years were let go tomorrow would you be happy digging roads for a paltry 188 euro? Or would you rather use the time to find work.
What if a doctor came out of college and was looking for work. Should he dig ditches while he waits for a place to open in the recruitment freeze?
Are you a member of government?What I see here is a joke of a government policy and somebody standing by and suggesting we need to victimise people out of work because of other joke government policies.

BMJD · 20-05-2013 3:38pm

Suggestions:

A tax on cars, maybe to be paid annuallly or every 3/6 months. A small, round certificate of compliance shall be issued to be placed on windscreen to proudly show fellow citizens
A levy on fuel, about 90 cents per litre of petrol or 77 cents per litre of diesel
A tax on new vehicles, for registration like. Anything up to 36% of the vehicle's value. If you don't know the value, pull one out of your arse. Slap some VAT on top of that as well when you're at it
Stick a levy onto insurance premiums as well when you're at it
Place some vans on safe stretches of road, take photos of citizens exceeding a deliberately low speed limit, demand money from them or else! Pretend it's all to do with road safety.

feck it, hammer the motorist with all of the above, sure they won't say a thing about it!!!

Eric Cartman · 20-05-2013 3:40pm

big break wrote: »

What about road fixers who are unemployed? Should they now work for their social welfare?

Everyone should be working for their welfare, or working and not getting it at all.

If you , after paying stamps for years were let go tomorrow would you be happy digging roads for a paltry 188 euro? Or would you rather use the time to find work.

Im self employed, the dole isnt really an option for me, so I would rather strangle cats for 188 quid a week than have nothing.

What if a doctor came out of college and was looking for work. Should he dig ditches while he waits for a place to open in the recruitment freeze?

If thats what he needs to do to put a roof over his head. Ive adapted my skillset to earn money (even in the short term), why shouldnt he

Are you a member of government?What I see here is a joke of a government policy and somebody standing by and suggesting we need to victimise people out of work because of other joke government policies.

I think theres enough people on social welfare victimising themselves
things like "theres no jobs" "its all the gubberments fault" and other soundbits constantly thrown around in pubs and bookies every hour of the working day accross Ireland.

i think were going a bit Off topic here.

zenno · 20-05-2013 4:13pm

This is turning into a dole thread and is off topic. Dole thread is that way --->>>

corktina · 20-05-2013 5:27pm

there are no old roadfixers....otherwise the roads would be fixed already....

If I was on the dole I would have no objection at all to working for it, especially if you got a little more as a result.

JerCotter7 · 20-05-2013 5:57pm

Victor wrote: »

You would have a point if you paid road tax. However, you pay Motor Tax, something which, along with fuel duty, is designed to discourage excessive fuel usage and fuel imports.

It's designed to give the government more money. They don't want people to stop using fuel. Once it gives them more money they love people using it.

big break · 20-05-2013 5:58pm

corktina wrote: »

there are no old roadfixers....otherwise the roads would be fixed already....

If I was on the dole I would have no objection at all to working for it, especially if you got a little more as a result.

Would you not expect a fair wage?

Brian? · 20-05-2013 6:02pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

step 1 ) get people on the dole to fix the roads in their area for 20-30 hours a week
step 2 ) we werent going to pay the paid workers to fix the roads anyway so their level of work is unchanged
step 3 ) roads get fixed accross the country and I actually get some value for my tax money
step 4 ) some of these people who now have training in road repair could go on to get jobs doing it full time, lessening my tax burdon and freeing up more money to pay for roads to be fixed.

Do you honestly think there are 450,000 unemployed people who are work shy?

TGi666 · 20-05-2013 6:06pm

I though the house hold tax/charge was to pay for roads, schools etc.?

big break · 20-05-2013 6:14pm

Brian? wrote: »

Do you honestly think there are 450,000 unemployed people who are work shy?

No no your not listening to the science.
Now that the 450 000 people have road fixing skills they can get jobs in road fixing. Even though people on the welfare do it free.

corktina · 20-05-2013 6:27pm

big break wrote: »

Would you not expect a fair wage?

given that the main problem we have is we pay ourselves too much, then probably not.

big break · 20-05-2013 6:40pm

corktina wrote: »

given that the main problem we have is we pay ourselves too much, then probably not.

So you would be happy if the boss came in tomorrow and told you your wage was dropping to 210 euro a week?
His thoughts are that 450 000 on the dole will be forced to do the job for this if you dont?
Then you will be forced to fix roads because you dont have a job.
Does this work for you?

corktina · 20-05-2013 6:46pm

no I wouldn't be happy..different scenario...

if I had no job, I'd be happy to work in some capacity rather than a free handout.

(PS I have no job btw...)

big break · 20-05-2013 6:57pm

corktina wrote: »

no I wouldn't be happy..different scenario...

if I had no job, I'd be happy to work in some capacity rather than a free handout.

(PS I have no job btw...)

Your local charity could do with some help Im sure.

corktina · 20-05-2013 7:22pm

it's just my opinion, doesn't matter if you don't agree.

challengemaster · 20-05-2013 7:34pm

big break wrote: »

Your local charity could do with some help Im sure.

How does that benefit the country in the same capacity as having people on the dole do a small amount of work for their money?

big break · 20-05-2013 7:37pm

challengemaster wrote: »

How does that benefit the country in the same capacity as having people on the dole do a small amount of work for their money?

It helps the poorest in society. The ones who need it most.
It also doesnt take work away from legitimate road fixers.

corktina · 20-05-2013 7:42pm

big break wrote: »

It helps the poorest in society. The ones who need it most.
It also doesnt take work away from legitimate road fixers.

how? the minister has said there wont be any road fixing....

challengemaster · 20-05-2013 7:42pm

big break wrote: »

It also doesnt take work away from legitimate road fixers.

You mean people in the county council that have a guaranteed job no matter what?

Also with the state of the roads after these "legitimate road fixers" have been around, I'd be in favor of taking as much work away from them as is possible.

big break · 20-05-2013 7:46pm

corktina wrote: »

how? the minister has said there wont be any road fixing....

Probably in the hope he can garner public support to make slave labour out of the unemployed.

big break · 20-05-2013 7:49pm

challengemaster wrote: »

You mean people in the county council that have a guaranteed job no matter what?

Also with the state of the roads after these "legitimate road fixers" have been around, I'd be in favor of taking as much work away from them as is possible.

Thats a problem with the county council you have there. Not with unemployed people. Maybe you should be hoping it was more efficient rather than bashing the unemployed into slavery.

corktina · 20-05-2013 7:50pm

noone said it would be compulsory, I would have thought many unemployed persons would jump at it,

big break · 20-05-2013 7:53pm

corktina wrote: »

noone said it would be compulsory, I would have thought many unemployed persons would jump at it,

My garden needs cutting and my car needs a bit of work done. Any unemployed people wanna get to it ?
Itll give me more time to work and contribute to the taxman.

challengemaster · 20-05-2013 7:56pm

big break wrote: »

Thats a problem with the county council you have there. Not with unemployed people. Maybe you should be hoping it was more efficient rather than bashing the unemployed into slavery.

Starting to sound like you could be one of the work shy amongst the 450,000 unemployed. Would certainly explain why you dislike the idea so much.

corktina · 20-05-2013 8:06pm

big break wrote: »

My garden needs cutting and my car needs a bit of work done. Any unemployed people wanna get to it ?
Itll give me more time to work and contribute to the taxman.

yeah that's grand, so long as locals (ie YOU) are prepared to pay for it...thats the point.

BTW suggestions that the Unemployed do this work have only com from this Board, not the Government afaik

Locals to be asked to pay for road maintenance

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